Iraq 2007

[Eddie Haskell]

Last night the big dummy gave the unsettled state of the union speech. Webb gave the democrats (I think more his) response. Here's my two cents with reference to Iraq.

Since before the war started in 2003, I was one of the few at this forum claiming there was not enough evidence justifying an invasion and was against the war. A position which I have not, nor will waver from. I believe that Bush and Company have created the chaos that they now claim cannot exist in the middle east.

With regard to resolution of the problem. Since we are there, I can't believe I'm saying this, but we can't allow Iraq to become a better armed and more prosperous Afghanistan. I would support an American troop buildup. I think we need to force other countries to realize this is a international problem, admit our error, but use leverage to get them involved.

In closing, I belive that this invasion has diverted our resources from fighting terrorists at home, created more terrorists in the future for which our children will pay and will cause future terrorist strikes here in the US. I think Bush and his administration are criminals and are by far the worst administration I have seen in my lifetime.

However, for the sake of the country, we cannot allow this morons error to be fatal to the US. We must stabilize the region and not allow Iraq to fragment into a wealthy Afghanistan. We have to clean up the idiots mess.

Eddie

 

[buddy]

We have to clean up the idiots mess.

Would you allow or encourage one of your children to join the military with Bush as commander in chief?

 

[AR182]

In closing, I belive that this invasion has diverted our resources from fighting terrorists at home, created more terrorists in the future for which our children will pay and will cause future terrorist strikes here in the US. I think Bush and his administration are criminals and are by far the worst administration I have seen in my lifetime.


Eddie

you may be right but how do you know this....

you keep saying they're criminals.....proove it.

 

[Spytheweb]

That may not happen

That may not happen

You have a shitte government that is trying to get rid of the sunnis, with US help. You have 800+ US deaths a year, 8 billion dollars a month. People on their 3rd and 4th tours. If Bush or Israel attacks Iran that will bring even more fighters from other countries to the area to fight the US. This war can last a very long time. If Israel bombs Iran, i think that will unite the arabs that hate Israel to come into the fight. Why do you think that Israel was not part of DS-1 against Saddam. They wanted to but the US would not give them the kicker codes that ID aircraft from friend or foe, they would have been shot down. I think Iraq will become an Islamic state and the puppet government in place now is stashing away US cash and will flee the country when the US leaves, like some have already done and are living in England, high on the hog with US tax payers money. Bush is like a loser in Vegas who thinks he just one pull away from hitting the jackpot, only thing is he's not playing with his money, he's playing with yours (lives).

 

[THE KOD]

Eddie

I agree .

Boo Rah

 

[TonyTT]

you may be right but how do you know this....

you keep saying they're criminals.....proove it.

IMPOSSIBLE...... for anyone in Eddie's position, your position, or my position to PROVE something like that. That would be like me saying "I think there was something mighty shady about the official version of the Kennedy Assassination"...or "I think some of the football games were indeed rigged over the years." All IMPOSSIBLE for guys like us to prove but certainly comon sense would suggest that SOMETHING really wasn't quite on the "up and up".

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

The invasion of Iraq was a straight out war crime.

 

[AR182]

IMPOSSIBLE...... for anyone in Eddie's position, your position, or my position to PROVE something like that. That would be like me saying "I think there was something mighty shady about the official version of the Kennedy Assassination"...or "I think some of the football games were indeed rigged over the years." All IMPOSSIBLE for guys like us to prove but certainly comon sense would suggest that SOMETHING really wasn't quite on the "up and up".

yes something wasn't on the up & up...but does that make bush a criminal ?

there is a techinque in sales called..."twisting".
a salesman twists the facts to fit his product(agenda). it's also has been used by politicians since the begining of time to get their point across. of course it's wrong & contemptable..but it's a product of our culture. that's what the bush administration did...which does not make them criminals....it makes them deceivable..which is not a crime....it's politics....unfortunately.

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Buddy:

You ask very hard questions. I have a son. He is approaching draft age. I've raised him to make his own decisions. He knows how I feel about the war. We live in a very conservative part of Cincinnati (can you believe that!!!) and most of his friends sound like Hitler youth.

I would let him make his own decision like I would make my own decision. I am and was against this war, we invaded a country that was no threat to us, but now that we are there we cannot afford to let it go. I would probably go. Would he go. Its up to him, but I think he would go.

AR:

You know damn well I can't know it as well as you can't know they are not. But I will tell you this, like anyone, we use our experiences to tell us when someone is lying. I think this guy and his cohorts have been lying about important stuff for years.

For example, one of the fist standing ovations Bush got last night from his party (only) was when he brought up one of my hot button topics, frivolous lawsuits medical malpractice style. I know for a fact that malpractice tort reform/dmages caps have been passed in most states and malpractice suits are practically non-existant anymore.

Yet, he brings up reform and ask for a federal law mandating uniform malpractice laws applicable to all states. He's already put most malpractice lawyers out of business. The January 8, 2007 cover story to Business Week magazine was entitled "How Business trounced the Trial Lawyers".

AR it was an article in Business Week how plaintiffs firms are disbanding because of a concerted effort by corporate America since the 1980's. You, Wayne and your cohorts in the insurance industry have long ago won the war. Its over. If I knew how to make the link I would.

Unlike Wayne, I'm citing Business Week. Yes, Business Week. Not the National Workers Monthly. They are gloating in the article how lawyers are running out of work. Can't sue anyone anymore. I'm the first to admit it. Last thing we need is more federal laws to protect us from something thats not there.

My point is Bush is lying. When the CIA did there investigation on Iraq and the WMD, he said "Is that all there is?" He made a case for war and used the sympathy factor of 9-11, fear of terrorism, and patriotism to go to war against Iraq. He made if almost impossible to question if going to war was the right thing to do.

84% of Americans were behind him in 03. Thats manipulation of the audience when he knew he didn't have much support for his cause. And we are talking about human lives here and we are talking about the security of our country here.

I think, knowing what he knew in 2-03, his conduct was criminal. The security of the US was at stake. The nearly 1/2 trillion dollars we spent over there could have been spent in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California and improving terrorist detection techniques here.

I'm using what I know to form opinions that his conduct was criminal. His manipulations and the chaos it has created may be fatal to this country.

Eddie

 

[AR182]

The invasion of Iraq was a straight out war crime.

no it wasn't...

eddie...

i'm heading out now....will read your post when i get back.

 

[THE KOD]

The invasion of Iraq was a straight out war crime.

......................................................

yeh but it sure did allow us to hang Saddam from the bleachers.

I just wish his head had snapped off and rolled under a table somewhere.

Oh to be a fly on the wall.

but thats just me.

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Spy:

Believe me, as a Viet Nam war protester, the last thing I want to support is a build up. I have often likened this war to the mess that Kennedy/Johnson/Nixon made for us over there.

However, what do you think will happen if we do have a Sunni/Kurd/Shitte factions all supported by outside sources fighting for control. Will we have a split up like Yugoslavia? Will some be terrorist controlled states?

Thats my concerns. Don't get me wrong. I blame Bush/Cheney for this whole mess. I just think it takes thinking people (emphasis on the word thinking) to come in now and clean up where these block headed rambos left off.

Ed

 

[TonyTT]

yes something wasn't on the up & up...but does that make bush a criminal ?

there is a techinque in sales called..."twisting".
a salesman twists the facts to fit his product(agenda).

Certainly not a criminal if that's all he did was "TWIST THE FACTS". Without 9-11 there's a very good possibility that the Iraq war WOULDN'T have happened when it did. There ARE quite a few folks that do indeed THINK that Bush at the very least KNEW it was gonna happen and let it....would that make him a criminal? Again.....IMPOSSIBLE to prove something like that. But comon sense along with other information would suggest that different intell agencies around the world knew...AT THE VERY LEAST.... something was going down.

 

[StevieD]

Was Iraq a clear and present danger to the US when we attacked? That is the question. The answer is "No, they were not." Which leads to other questions about intelligence and did Bush Twist the intelligence to fit his agenda. It appears he did.

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Stevie.

Absolutely 100% correct.

Eddie

 

[TonyTT]

Yeah Stevie that would certainly appear to be the case but again I doubt THAT could be proven.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Was Nk a clear and present danger when we attacked--how would you feel today if there was only one korea with their nuke arsenal and no U.S. miltary in vicinity. Is iran a clear a preent danger--what about five years from now--other than Japan who has been "clear and present danger"

Depends on ones definition of clear and present danger--you have millions of muslims I would not call c&p danger until you put nuke in their hands--unfortunately as with 911 the danger is too clear and too present to do anything about it.

maybe you'd like to share with us when those involved in 911 became C&P?? in 93 when they didn't get the job done or "after" 911.

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Here we are having a nice conversation among intelligent human beings when guess who comes along. Oh well.

Doesn't Pakistan have nukes? India? What if they have regime change? As you know Pakistan buddying up to us can't make there President too comfortable.

Wayne, unless you advocate wiping out the millions and millions of muslims militarily how do you think we settle this. Do you really think you can beat millions of people (probably more thanks to Bush and Cheney) into submission who think there gonna get 70 some virgins when they get martyred?

Ideas?

Get there leaders to the table big guy. All is not lost, you might be able to sell them some prop & cas policy's. Don't worry, you can exclude losses resulting from sand and/or sand related conditions.

Wasn't Iran our ally 30 years ago? 25 years ago we were supporting Saddam Hussein. I don't think with the internet, technology and the availability of nuclear weapons, the US, as the worlds policeman will be able to continue to step on every nation and terrorist group that tries to develop these weapons.

Geez, don't you watch 24.

I think you have a bully complex. Since we have big biceps and were the only ones around with big biceps, you think we can do anything we want. Wayne, we can't. We are losing in Iraq. We don't just waltz in and stomp and everyone you deem lesser than us. You are what is known as the "ugly" American.

Unfortunately, we have a president who "mistrusts" intellectuals. For obvious reasons. He doesn't understand them. Negotiation, understanding your oppositions positions and reasons as opposed to bullying, drawing a line in the sand and military action based on flimsy evidence is the way to go.

Eddie

 

[AR182]

first of all i was a salesman/broker in the ins. business....so i didn't win any war against lawsuits. second....although i'm against frivolous lawsuits, i am against putting a cap on lawsuits. i think the trial judge can handle that without putting it into law....i also think putting a cap on lawsuits is "unamerican".

in woodward's first book about this issue...wasn't he present when bush questioned tenant about the wmds & tenant said it was a slam dunk that there was wmds ?

i don't believe manipulation or twisting is a war crime...these things have been going on for many years.

no eddie...bush may have made a mistake by going into iraq & you may not like him or his administration...but there is nothing that you or anybody else has said make it a war crime.

 

[The Sponge]

My god man is it really that hard to follow the money trail? Follow the fuking money trail. Look who got wealthy from this bogus bullshit. Then you will find your war criminals.
My question Eddie is how are you gonna ask other countries to help when this asswipe blew them all off to begin with? This was also to make sure companies of his campaign donors got to get all the money. These countries who this asswipe insulted are laughing at us and are glad we are in this mess. He has got to go before anyone is gonna even think of giving us a hand.
Carlyle grow 4 times their net worth since 9/11
Halliburton gets no bid contracts and makes billions
Bectel
Kellog, Brown, Root it goes on and on and on. Follow the MONEY trail.