Iraq Generals to President: You've Failed Us

[The Judge]

05.01.2007
Washington, DC

Earlier Tuesday, during a visit to U.S. Central Command headquarters in Tampa, Fla., Bush said, "We must stay on the offense. We must defeat the enemy overseas so we don't have to face them in our countries."

But Bush's veto drew rebuke from two retired Army generals who led troops in Iraq as they expressed outrage at the President's veto of the U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Health, and Iraq Accountability Act.

"The President vetoed our troops and the American people. His stubborn commitment to a failed strategy in Iraq is incomprehensible. He committed our great military to a failed strategy in violation of basic principles of war. His failure to mobilize the nation to defeat world wide Islamic extremism is tragic. We deserve more from our commander-in-chief and his administration."
--Maj. Gen. John Batiste, USA, Ret.

"This administration and the previously Republican controlled legislature have been the most caustic agents against America's Armed Forces in memory. Less than a year ago, the Republicans imposed great hardship on the Army and Marine Corps by their failure to pass a necessary funding language. This time, the President of the United States is holding our Soldiers hostage to his ego. More than ever apparent, only the Army and the Marine Corps are at war - alone, without their President's support."
--Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton, USA, Ret.

Because of when the bill was sent to the White House, Bush was forced to make his veto on the fourth anniversary of his aircraft carrier speech ? in front of a "Mission Accomplished" banner ? in which he declared the end of major combat in Iraq. Since then, more than 3,200 U.S. troops have died in the war. Before Bush's May 2003 speech, 139 had died.

"Stay the course."

 

[Chadman]

If my memory serves, I believe these would be two of the people Dick Cheney and George Bush have told Americans that we should listen to when formulating our war plans. Interesting.

 

[bryanz]

05.01.2007
Washington, DC

Earlier Tuesday, during a visit to U.S. Central Command headquarters in Tampa, Fla., Bush said, "We must stay on the offense. We must defeat the enemy overseas so we don't have to face them in our countries."

But Bush's veto drew rebuke from two retired Army generals who led troops in Iraq as they expressed outrage at the President's veto of the U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Health, and Iraq Accountability Act.

"The President vetoed our troops and the American people. His stubborn commitment to a failed strategy in Iraq is incomprehensible. He committed our great military to a failed strategy in violation of basic principles of war. His failure to mobilize the nation to defeat world wide Islamic extremism is tragic. We deserve more from our commander-in-chief and his administration."
--Maj. Gen. John Batiste, USA, Ret.

"This administration and the previously Republican controlled legislature have been the most caustic agents against America's Armed Forces in memory. Less than a year ago, the Republicans imposed great hardship on the Army and Marine Corps by their failure to pass a necessary funding language. This time, the President of the United States is holding our Soldiers hostage to his ego. More than ever apparent, only the Army and the Marine Corps are at war - alone, without their President's support."
--Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton, USA, Ret.

Because of when the bill was sent to the White House, Bush was forced to make his veto on the fourth anniversary of his aircraft carrier speech ? in front of a "Mission Accomplished" banner ? in which he declared the end of major combat in Iraq. Since then, more than 3,200 U.S. troops have died in the war. Before Bush's May 2003 speech, 139 had died.

"Stay the course."

Gen Eaton & Gen Batiste are crazy traitors, all they need is some of that kool aid . I don't know how anyone who has ever served or led men into combat could agree with the execution of this war on the ground in Iraq. We are beyond if we should have invaded this country or not. If this administration wanted a piece of Iraq for whatever reasons, have at it, but not this way. If your going to get people killed, make it count. We are the most powerful country in the world. Why are we fighting a ground war in a country that has no air force ? Militarily this makes no sense. Yes we want to kill terrorist but we don't need to be on the ground day to day in Iraq to do it. We had this country isolated and contained, they were no threat that we couldn't handle with series of fly bys. Anyone that thinks anything different is a ****ingggg idiot. NEW JOKE ,but it's sad. How do you keep a idiot busy ? Tell him Iraq is your enemy .

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Gen Eaton & Gen Batiste are crazy traitors, all they need is some of that kool aid . I don't know how anyone who has ever served or led men into combat could agree with the execution of this war on the ground in Iraq. We are beyond if we should have invaded this country or not. If this administration wanted a piece of Iraq for whatever reasons, have at it, but not this way. If your going to get people killed, make it count. We are the most powerful country in the world. Why are we fighting a ground war in a country that has no air force ? Militarily this makes no sense. Yes we want to kill terrorist but we don't need to be on the ground day to day in Iraq to do it. We had this country isolated and contained, they were no threat that we couldn't handle with series of fly bys. Anyone that thinks anything different is a ****ingggg idiot. NEW JOKE ,but it's sad. How do you keep a idiot busy ? Tell him Iraq is your enemy .

Bryan: I don't understand your position. You mention how ignorant our military strategy is and yet you call a couple of retired Generals traitors for taking a stand against it. If you called them hypocrites, I'd probably shrug the statement off, but traitors makes no sense.

I agree with the part about getting our troops off the ground. It makes zero sense to fight this "war" this way.

 

[kosar]

Fallacy of the Mirror Image

by Charley Reese

The trouble with the war in Iraq is the same as the trouble with the war in Vietnam a generation ago. Washington completely misunderstood the Iraqi people, just as an earlier generation misunderstood the Vietnamese.

American policymakers frequently make the mistake I call the "fallacy of the mirror image." They assume that other people are a mirror image of ourselves and will therefore react as we would. This is rarely true.

I used this example before, but it's very telling. We all know how Americans would react to the accidental death of a loved one. They'd be on the phone to a lawyer, wanting to sue and put a dollar figure on the death of the loved one. But early in the war, when an American officer showed up at the door of an Iraqi family whose son had been killed by mistake and asked the father what compensation he wanted, the Iraqi replied, "Ten dead Americans."

Then there was the boy in the early days of the war who lost his family and his arms and legs. Valiant efforts were made to save his life, and he eventually was flown to England and fitted with prosthetics. The Western press made the kid a big deal, probably because they thought it reflected well on the West. But when the boy was finally well enough to hold a press conference, what did say? Thank you? No, he said he hoped and prayed the men who wiped out his family were burned alive. The press instantly lost interest in him.

Our culture puts about the highest value on money and therefore tends to view negatively any conditions that might hinder the making of money. While the Arab culture has no objection to making money, personal honor, family and tribal loyalties and vengeance ? all three of which are largely absent in our culture ? rank very high in theirs.

Therefore, on what basis do any of the self-appointed experts in Washington suppose that the Iraqi Shiites, battered and persecuted and murdered for generations by their Sunni overlords, are going to forgive them? We set up a system that empowered the Shiites, and now we're saying, "Hey, guys, let bygones be bygones."

In fact, Washington defines victory in Iraq as reconciliation between the Shiites, the Sunnis and the Kurds. That is, instead, a definition of failure, because it is not going to happen. To say that if we leave there will be a blood bath is to say we will never leave. There is a reason why all Iraqi governments have been powerful central governments long on coercion and short on democracy. The reason is, it's the only way a nation with a divided population can be ruled.

Not only do the factions hate each other, about the only thing that unites them is hatred of us.

The Bush administration should give up, admit it made a colossal blunder and bring the American troops home. It has stupidly created an Islamic government, which will be a natural ally of the Iranians. There is no way to undo it short of finding another Saddam Hussein and installing him as a dictator.

Washington seems to have an infinite capacity for self-delusion. The essential question regarding the surge and new security plan has yet to be asked. What will happen when the U.S. soldiers leave? The violence will resume, of course. It's kindergarten-level knowledge that insurgents make themselves scarce when conventional military forces move in. So, of course, there will be a temporary reduction in violence, but how long do you want Americans living in Baghdad? Forever?

Someone should tell our child president that he is more likely to find a real Easter Bunny than he is those secular, liberal democrats he seems to believe are in Iraq and Iran. They don't exist in that part of the world.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Fallacy of the Mirror Image

by Charley Reese

The trouble with the war in Iraq is the same as the trouble with the war in Vietnam a generation ago. Washington completely misunderstood the Iraqi people, just as an earlier generation misunderstood the Vietnamese.
+++++++++++++++++++++++

You got to be shitting me??

Misunderstaood the vietnamese people? They busted their ass gave their lives while the fanny packers here--threw in the towell -run from the draft ect and turned their backs when they got slaughtered?/ Yea I can see a parralell.

What pray tell is the character of people that think going back on your word is no prob--if things get tough. That use deaths as excuse to whine but have nothing to say when their convictions/actions cause 10 times the deaths and they go :shrug:

--and the clincher is they aren't even the ones making the sacrifice.

As in all walks of life--the doers continue to do--and the whiners continue to whine.

I'll look for the photos from the war protestors and some from the troops in action if anyone needs visual effects for clarification :nooo:

 

[bryanz]

Bryan: I don't understand your position. You mention how ignorant our military strategy is and yet you call a couple of retired Generals traitors for taking a stand against it. If you called them hypocrites, I'd probably shrug the statement off, but traitors makes no sense.

I agree with the part about getting our troops off the ground. It makes zero sense to fight this "war" this way.

I guess I'm not as well read as I though I was. I was kidding, sarcasm. Ask DTB & the Weasel what I'm talking about. I said it right here years ago, WE CAN NOT WIN A GROUND WAR IN IRAQ ! I'm not saying anything against America. All I'm saying is common sense and logical and what is probable. Is it possible to win this crazy Bush war ? Yes it is. But we as gamblers know it's highly unlikely.

 

[smurphy]

Our military leaders hate freedom.

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Eaton, Batiste, Tillman, Lynch et al., were all American hero's at one time. Now, they are traitors.

As long as the right wing nuts are in charge, this country will continue to disintegrate. Stepping back from it all, Saul, you will find that the only ones who hate freedom are the ones who are trying to take it away.

Corporate america will do whatever it has too to keep power, control and big bucks. Bush is a tool of corporate america. In every sense of the word.

Until people wake up and smell the coffee, traitors like Bush and Cheney will continue to rule. I mean does anyone really think that America's demise was going to come externally from some big bad army.

Kids its been happening since 2000 and by the people who speak of freedom, terror, God, and patriotism. The state of the electorate of this country is scarry.

Eddie

 

[danmurphy jr]

Just read the Kosar-Haskell threads and they made me furious. We can't have that kind of intelligent dialog here. I mean, give me a break. These posts actually make sense. What are we to think?

 

[gardenweasel]

Just read the Kosar-Haskell threads and they made me furious. We can't have that kind of intelligent dialog here. I mean, give me a break. These posts actually make sense. What are we to think?

please dan...we don`t want to have to forcibly medicate you...

kosar occasionally gets it right..he tries to be fair....although he`s a little disengenuous at times....on the other hand(five fingers..lol),haskell`s a bad borscht-belt comedian....he`s a slip and fall lawyer railing about the evils of corporate america...a walking oxy moron.. .

what is lacking here,are brain cells...not one mention here of the repercusions of surrender....no mention of repercussions to our allies in eastern europe(poland/the czechs et al that are standing tall vs putin)...how could they trust us to stand with them?....no mention of the jihadists being given a base from which to reek havoc on friendlier middle eastern states throughout the region.... it`s been hard work gaining alliances in the middle east...i`m sure the friendlier middle eastern states in the region are looking forward to warding off jihadi attacks based in iraq.....

no mention of allowing al qaeda a foothold in iraq...no mention of iran gaining sway over iraqi oil resources.........many of you big thinkers are ready to turn your backs on the israelis....

just,"let`s quit".....

that`s why you`re liberals...you feel...you don`t think...

any poker player(much less a military general)that has a clue about military strategy knows that you don`t show your cards...

and any idiot that
can read knows that this is petrauaes` strategy....it follows the iraq study group`s recommendation regarding the troop surge...and IS a new strategy...not the same old strategy..

maybe that`s why they`re"retired" military generals...


the dems voted for petrauaes...yet the pelosi`s and murtha`s can`t meet with the general in charge in iraq??.....she can galavant over to syria and meet with assad...but can`t have a face to face with petraues?...

i don`t know whether she`s shameless,shameful or just clueless......

the good news?...the surrender bill gets vetoed and the dems will have to man up..one way or another....

and it looks like france will be getting a much more pro-american leader to replace the scumbag chirac....

this goes along with merkel in germany...howard in australia....and there a chance that blair`s replacement may be fairly pro-american...

maybe the worm is turning a bit for the west...

btw...good news for the crazies...i hear that charlie sheen will not only narrate the 9/11 conspiracy movie...biut he`ll also narrate a documentary on pmsnbc on the oakland freeway collapse...

""the bbc reported the highway collapsed a half hour before it actually did.""

""this tanker incident is just too convenient.... it was staged to divert the public's attention from the mess in iraq""

"congess demands formation of an "oakland gas tanker commission"

" they must have replaced the steel with another metal that actually can melt, then staged the accident."

"the zapruder film!"...

"no joos on the truck?...mighty suspicious to me".....

arrrggghh!!! :mj16: :s1:

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Kinda like communism spread all over the world after we pulled out of Viet Nam, huh.

Eddie

 

[AR182]

please dan...we don`t want to have to forcibly medicate you...

kosar occasionally gets it right..he tries to be fair....although he`s a little disengenuous at times....on the other hand(five fingers..lol),haskell`s a bad borscht-belt comedian....he`s a slip and fall lawyer railing about the evils of corporate america...a walking oxy moron.. .

what is lacking here,are brain cells...not one mention here of the repercusions of surrender....no mention of repercussions to our allies in eastern europe(poland/the czechs et al that are standing tall vs putin)...how could they trust us to stand with them?....no mention of the jihadists being given a base from which to reek havoc on friendlier middle eastern states throughout the region.... it`s been hard work gaining alliances in the middle east...i`m sure the friendlier middle eastern states in the region are looking forward to warding off jihadi attacks based in iraq.....

no mention of allowing al qaeda a foothold in iraq...no mention of iran gaining sway over iraqi oil resources.........many of you big thinkers are ready to turn your backs on the israelis....

just,"let`s quit".....

that`s why you`re liberals...you feel...you don`t think...

any poker player(much less a military general)that has a clue about military strategy knows that you don`t show your cards...

and any idiot that
can read knows that this is petrauaes` strategy....it follows the iraq study group`s recommendation regarding the troop surge...and IS a new strategy...not the same old strategy..

maybe that`s why they`re"retired" military generals...


the dems voted for petrauaes...yet the pelosi`s and murtha`s can`t meet with the general in charge in iraq??.....she can galavant over to syria and meet with assad...but can`t have a face to face with petraues?...

i don`t know whether she`s shameless,shameful or just clueless......

the good news?...the surrender bill gets vetoed and the dems will have to man up..one way or another....

and it looks like france will be getting a much more pro-american leader to replace the scumbag chirac....

this goes along with merkel in germany...howard in australia....and there a chance that blair`s replacement may be fairly pro-american...

maybe the worm is turning a bit for the west...

btw...good news for the crazies...i hear that charlie sheen will not only narrate the 9/11 conspiracy movie...biut he`ll also narrate a documentary on pmsnbc on the oakland freeway collapse...

""the bbc reported the highway collapsed a half hour before it actually did.""

""this tanker incident is just too convenient.... it was staged to divert the public's attention from the mess in iraq""

"congess demands formation of an "oakland gas tanker commission"

" they must have replaced the steel with another metal that actually can melt, then staged the accident."

"the zapruder film!"...

"no joos on the truck?...mighty suspicious to me".....

arrrggghh!!! :mj16: :s1:

very good post gw....

all liberals do is complain....they offer no solutions....they believe that if we left iraq all will be well...

 

[StevieD]

very good post gw....

all liberals do is complain....they offer no solutions....they believe that if we left iraq all will be well...

What is the Conservatives solution to this mess?

 

[AR182]

What is the Conservatives solution to this mess?

good question stevie....

as far as i can tell some conservatives have called for more troops from the start....

and some conservatives like, buchanan (sp ?) have been against the war from the beginning....

there's no getting around it, this administration by their incompetence have gotten us into a quagmire.....

 

[StevieD]

good question stevie....

as far as i can tell some conservatives have called for more troops from the start....

and some conservatives like, buchanan (sp ?) have been against the war from the beginning....

there's no getting around it, this administration by their incompetence have gotten us into a quagmire.....

I have said since the beginning that this is not a Liberal vs. Conservative thing. The Neocons have no one to blame but themselves for this mess. The sooner America realizes that the better off we will be. They love having the Conservatives and the Liberals blame each other.

 

[djv]

But we just cant leave Iraq. The same thing will happen when we left Nam. The commies will take over the world. And follow us home. Were still waiting after 35 years for them to come. :shrug:

 

[Jabberwocky]

"He committed our great military to a failed strategy in violation of basic principles of war."

I really don't follow all of the moonbat, fanny pack, liberal defeatist spew. It is totally irrelevant. What is relevant is the above statement.