Iraq...Let's Look At Some Positive Notes

dawgball

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The big, evil, rich, corporate American Bill Gates has shoveled more than "some small sums of money" to the African health plight. But that discussion is for another day.:tongue

Just a peek
 

dawgball

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sorry, c, but I think my statement may have been misunderstood. I love it that he is that generous with his money and time to a very much needed cause. He is doing grass roots work in that field for those countries which is a task that I don't think any government is up for (and I'm pretty sure they shouldn't be).

But like I said, this is completely off of the subject of this thread.
 

Wilson

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Hoops..

Help me understand why a Muslim country cannot be a free democracy? WTF does religion have to do with governmental and business structure? Please, help me understand.

:confused:
 

kosar

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Hoops said:
Religious ideology is a much, much different animal than political. Believe it or not, not every country or person wants to live their lives like American's do.

Don't underestimate it.

Exactly.


And ctownguy,

I'm still interested in what you think of the three events that you queried me on and on which I answered. Maybe you missed my post. Thanks.
 

kosar

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Wilson said:
Hoops..

Help me understand why a Muslim country cannot be a free democracy?

:confused:

Wilson,

The simple answer is that they don't want to be a democracy and will never allow it.
 

Wilson

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My guess is that they don't know what a democracy or freedom is...You can't "want" something if you don't know what it "is"


...and who the fawk is "they"?

You mean the newly elected government officials that were voted in by Iraqi people?

Kosar and Hoops have all the answers...amazing! :thefinger
 

kosar

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Wilson said:
OK Kosar...I invite you help me understand! :nono:

Wilson,

I'm not sure if this is the case, but you don't seem to understand how powerful religion is over there. The leaders and potential leaders in the ME don't care about western values or creature comforts or legitimate elections. This seems bizzare to you and me, but it's reality. We will never establish any sort of democracy there. It's not possible. The most likely scenario is that after we leave, the Shiites (and by extension Iran) will be running that country.

If there is any logical reason why you think that we can turn that place into a democracy, please post it.
 

kosar

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Wilson said:
My guess is that they don't know what a democracy or freedom is...You can't "want" something if you don't know what it "is"


...and who the fawk is "they"?

You mean the newly elected government officials that were voted in by Iraqi people?

Kosar and Hoops have all the answers...amazing! :thefinger

No, not the newly elected government. They will be done the day we pull out.

By 'they', I mean the tribe that will take over Iraq. Most likely the shiites, but it doesn't really matter. It will be the same no matter who fills the vacuum.

You seem to be an idealist, and that's great. And like I said before, it's foreign to us that any country wouldn't want freedom. But you're underestimating the power of religion in that region.
 

Wilson

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Kosar,

Did you know Iraq from the roaring 20's through the 1950's was a monarchy similar to the United Kingdom.....I believe they had something like 24 different newspapers..which was a "free press" If I'm not mistaken, they had a parliament made up of different political parties....so, please don't say it can't or its impossible.....because of religion...you democrats are an amzing specie.
 

ctownguy

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kosar,

Somalia- definitely was against that. We only went because the tall black super model from there probably promised billy boy a blowjob after she cried to the Senate panel at the time which was run by the left wing nitwits. But that being said, we didn't leave because of any great realization on our part, we left because Clinton was a coward and didn't trust his own military to do the job, which they would have except billy blow job wanted the UN to run our military.

Bosnia-first off we went there on the wrong side, naturally the idiot clinton take the muslim side in the cival war where he could have easily entered to stop the carnage a few years earlier, when the christians were getting massacred by the muslims. Are you sure we didn't have ground troops, I think we did, do, and will have for quite awhile. Better check that not losing an American also????

The pill factory- No opinion, only becasue was played down by the lefttist media, if Bush had done something like this, wrong intelligence, not good planning, sound familiar,, they would have had hearings on it, but it was billy blow job their boy so they let it slide and the american people didn't hardly get to know the story, plus it was, if I remember right at a time billie needed a little diversion from his blow job antics here at home. But no outrage form your side on that one.

This is typical of our thought processes, you on the left and me on the right, but knowing I'm on the better side, I'll just feel sorry for you

:D :D
 

kosar

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Wilson said:
Kosar,

Did you know Iraq from the roaring 20's through the 1950's was a monarchy similar to the United Kingdom.....I believe they had something like 24 different newspapers..which was a "free press" If I'm not mistaken, they had a parliament made up of different political parties....so, please don't say it can't or its impossible.....because of religion...you democrats are an amzing specie.


I hope that's not what you're hanging your hope on. That Iraq had a free press 54 years ago.

Iraq is now an open territory for whoever can grab it. For whoever is the most powerful. I guarantee you that it won't be the free speech advocates.
 

Wilson

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People like you in 1770's probably were saying.....King George III will pound his iron fist upon those farmers of militia. Status quo from left...:D
 

ctownguy

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have to agree wth you Wilson, the left kind of thinking even back in the 1700's and we would be celebrating queen elizabeths birthday here also and would be fellow citizens with the likes of ozball and the rest of the canucks:(

just kidding guys don't get in an uproar:D
 

kosar

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Ctown


"Somalia- definitely was against that. We only went because the tall black super model from there probably promised billy boy a blowjob after she cried to the Senate panel at the time which was run by the left wing nitwits."


Serioulsy, man. It's hard to have a serious conversation with you when you make comments like this.


"But that being said, we didn't leave because of any great realization on our part, we left because Clinton was a coward and didn't trust his own military to do the job, which they would have except billy blow job wanted the UN to run our military."


Wrong. That 'job' would never have gotten done. It wasn't possible and we would still be there if he he wasn't such a 'coward'. Sound familiar?



"Bosnia-first off we went there on the wrong side, naturally the idiot clinton take the muslim side in the cival war where he could have easily entered to stop the carnage a few years earlier, when the christians were getting massacred by the muslims. Are you sure we didn't have ground troops, I think we did, do, and will have for quite awhile. Better check that not losing an American also????"


We didn't, and don't, have ground troops(by any sort of accepted definiton) there. Never did. Also, I'd be interested in anything you could find regarding American fatalities. I think we accomplished a lot without risking our troops.


"The pill factory- No opinion, only becasue was played down by the lefttist media, if Bush had done something like this, wrong intelligence, not good planning, sound familiar,, they would have had hearings on it, but it was billy blow job their boy so they let it slide and the american people didn't hardly get to know the story, plus it was, if I remember right at a time billie needed a little diversion from his blow job antics here at home. But no outrage form your side on that one."


Jesus Christ. You even have to blame your indifference(which is the same as mine) about this on the 'leftist media'? Also, if Clinton really wanted to 'Wag the Dog', he would have done a lot more than lob a few missles. That's absurd.

"This is typical of our thought processes, you on the left and me on the right, but knowing I'm on the better side, I'll just feel sorry for you"

I dunno. On two of the three things you mentioned, we pretty much had the same exact opinion.

It's clear that you (and so many others) are obsessed with Clinton and wish to blame him for anything bad that has ever happened to this country. You need to move on and attempt to objectively look at current issues.

If Clinton pulled this stunt of invading Iraq, I would be all over him. Believe it.

Will you support Kerry so vehemently if he invades Iran and it turns out like the Iraq invasion? I didn't think so.

Take your partisan blinders off and keep an open mind.
 

Hoops

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Oh, and as far the democrat 'accusations', I happen to be/was a registered Republican. But since Bush the sequel came to power, his 'reign' has pushed me to Independent status.
 

kosar

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Wilson said:
People like you in 1770's probably were saying.....King George III will pound his iron fist upon those farmers of militia. Status quo from left...:D


Keep the faith, Wilson.

I do have to give you credit. You're the first and only person here that said that it's even a possibility that we'll leave Iraq with a peaceful democracy. Even your cohorts aren't *that* naive.
 

djv

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Wow theres alot of stuff going on in here. First Iraq was made out of a desert that was twice it's size today. The Brits and us in away help split the land up. The Brits sat over every move Iraq made for at least 35 years. It always had trouble with the tribes and got it's ass out. This country is made up of at least 6/7 diffeant tribes and they all think there in charge. Or as the kurds believe. That they are already. Democracy takes time it does not happenin 1 year or 2. So whos fooling who. And we never went there for a democracy. That was the fall back story. They wanted democracy they would have had it long time ago. The people like being cared for. Many didn't even work and got many dollars from the government for just that.
Jordan good example. Why not a democracy. They dont want it. Syria had a chance 56 years ago they didn't want it. So how the hell do we think we know better. Look what happen in Iran they through the shaw out. They just like there religions and don't give chit what we think.
 
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