is our goverment let us down
- Thread starter RAYMOND
- Start date
why are you so skeptical?
are other products made from oil going up? No.
Did gas go up last summer? yes
Does it go up every summer? yes
Is the demand getting higher and higher every year? yes
Are there more and mroe restrictions on oil refineries every year? yes
Are oil companies building more refineries every year to keep up with the deman? heck no, look to countinguys post for explanation
After the explosion in Texas City, did we see an immediate 10 cent increase in price? yes
Why? because refinery capacity was cut even further
Does the price of the barrel sometimes drive up prices when OPEC cuts output? yes
There are multiple forces affecting price. I dont know why you liberals are so dense, but please, if you are this unbelieving, go get an economics textbook and figure out why prices are what they are.
are other products made from oil going up? No.
Did gas go up last summer? yes
Does it go up every summer? yes
Is the demand getting higher and higher every year? yes
Are there more and mroe restrictions on oil refineries every year? yes
Are oil companies building more refineries every year to keep up with the deman? heck no, look to countinguys post for explanation
After the explosion in Texas City, did we see an immediate 10 cent increase in price? yes
Why? because refinery capacity was cut even further
Does the price of the barrel sometimes drive up prices when OPEC cuts output? yes
There are multiple forces affecting price. I dont know why you liberals are so dense, but please, if you are this unbelieving, go get an economics textbook and figure out why prices are what they are.
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I don't know why you Conservatives think the answer to all your problems is to insult a Liberal. LOL! Your guys have been in charge for at least six years now and even before that as Clinton had to deal with a Republican Congress. Things are out of control. Why don't you look to your own party as to why things are the way they are?
Freeze, I was conversing and wanting further explanations. Just because you say "we don't have enough refineries", am I supposed to just go "OK". No- if we don't have enough now, then I would think we haven't had enough for a while. I'm not in the oil business. It helps for me to hear explanations from the oil business. I just wanted some details.
That explosion in Texas I think only caused the 10 cent price jump in that region. It didn't affect the prices here (although we're already around $2.40).
Those same economics books you want us to read would also emphasize the global situation. What specifically are the new restrictions on refineries this year that are affecting the price?
But again, I think prices should go higher anyway - anybody right or left complaining about the prices can bite me. No sympathy. Work through it. Build the refinery in your own back yard if you want it that bad.
That explosion in Texas I think only caused the 10 cent price jump in that region. It didn't affect the prices here (although we're already around $2.40).
Those same economics books you want us to read would also emphasize the global situation. What specifically are the new restrictions on refineries this year that are affecting the price?
But again, I think prices should go higher anyway - anybody right or left complaining about the prices can bite me. No sympathy. Work through it. Build the refinery in your own back yard if you want it that bad.
I could care less what fuel prices are, but it's comical that some still, 27 years later, whine about Carter and the gas crisis in the 70's, yet find every other reason to blame than this admin for the current prices.
There are all sorts of reasons for the spike in the last year, including our invasion of Iraq, but I don't blame Bush and the boys. But for the love of God, let's stop citing high fuel prices under Carter as 'evidence' of what a bad President he was.
Gas is still a bargain here, compared to the rest of the world, just like it was in 1978.
And Freeze, as Smurphy alluded to, fuel costs didn't just start to rise a few days ago after that explosion. Jeez.
There are all sorts of reasons for the spike in the last year, including our invasion of Iraq, but I don't blame Bush and the boys. But for the love of God, let's stop citing high fuel prices under Carter as 'evidence' of what a bad President he was.
Gas is still a bargain here, compared to the rest of the world, just like it was in 1978.
And Freeze, as Smurphy alluded to, fuel costs didn't just start to rise a few days ago after that explosion. Jeez.
Candidate Bush thought he could do something about the price of Oil.
Sept. 2000
Campaigning in Pennsylvania and New York, Bush said the United States should
press leading OPEC countries in the Middle East, such as Kuwait and Saudi
Arabia, to step up crude production by reminding them of the U.S. role in
the Gulf War, which pushed Iraq's Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait.
"We need to be mindful of the power of strong and consistent diplomacy and
start playing with the chips we have earned in the past in a constructive
way on behalf of the American consumers," Bush told supporters at a town
hall meeting he attended early in the day in Pittsburgh.
Bush has said he would use diplomacy -- and a reminder of who helped defend
Arab states in the 1991 Persian Gulf war -- to coax OPEC nations into
boosting production.
------------
Sept. 2000
Campaigning in Pennsylvania and New York, Bush said the United States should
press leading OPEC countries in the Middle East, such as Kuwait and Saudi
Arabia, to step up crude production by reminding them of the U.S. role in
the Gulf War, which pushed Iraq's Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait.
"We need to be mindful of the power of strong and consistent diplomacy and
start playing with the chips we have earned in the past in a constructive
way on behalf of the American consumers," Bush told supporters at a town
hall meeting he attended early in the day in Pittsburgh.
Bush has said he would use diplomacy -- and a reminder of who helped defend
Arab states in the 1991 Persian Gulf war -- to coax OPEC nations into
boosting production.
------------
kosar said:
Did I say they "just started to rise"?
Mr. "I never get it right" chimes in once again with another misquote.
They went up 10 cents immediately after in the region which BP was a large supplier.
This simply demonstrates that our refinery capacity is not fluid right now. If we were not maxed out, price would not have risen so drastically.
Of course, as you liberals love to do, compare unsimilar circumstances, as you do with Carter, and try to reason that Bush has something to do with this.
Bush is partly responsible, I guess, in that he hasn't gotten the EPA extremists to lighten their restrictions.
Look no further than regulations making refining at low costs unfeasible. They are responsible for the increase along with summer demand.
Summer demand has increased gas price every year.
Summer demand itself is increasing every year.
10 years ago, the streets were not as crowded as they are now. Hmmm....I wonder why that is.
Refineries have not increased production as they can make more money by keeping production stable and raising the price. A business that turns a profit can raise production at a competitive price if costs are affordable.
Enough with the 8th grade arithmetic lesson.
If you liberals can't figure it out for yourselves, its not worth trying to force feed you.
Go vote for welfare, handouts, price controls, and government babysitting like you always do.
That way your intellectual capacity will not lead you astray as Uncle Sam will take care of your every need.
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dr. freeze said:
Actually, it was just the opposite, as clearly expressed in my post. I said that I don't blame Bush for gas prices but find it funny that a certain element laments Carters presidency in large part because of high gas prices yet come up with every other reason in the world for the current prices other than 'governmental issues.'
As far as 'mis-quoting' goes, that's rich. At least when I quote you in my signature, I preserve your meaning and intent. When you quote *me*, you chop it up into the totally opposite meaning from the original quote. I can understand that, though, because it wouldn't be quite as interesting or goofy if you accurately quoted me, whereas your actual quotes and meanings do not need to be tampered with. They stand on their own 'merit.'
Oh man. First it's statements that environmentalists are Communists, now the EPA are "extremists"???dr. freeze said:
The EPA are SCIENTISTS. Science dictates the absolute need of environmental protection. The EPA has been very light in enforcement and new laws by the way ever since Bush put his guy from Utah in charge in 2001. His "Clear Skies" was actually a rolling back of power plant emission standards.
You said it yourself - the oil companies won't build new refiniries because there isn't enough money in it for them at the moment. Sure - this is partly due to environmental protection requiring more cost. But would you rather have air like Mexico City and Bejing? Honestly?
I think it's fine. Eventually oil will be expensive enough for the companies to make a profit with some new - environmentally conscious refineries. No problems. By then, auto makers will hopefully have responded to demand for more efficient vehicles.
For now, people like me who planned ahead a little get to laugh at whiny SUV owners in the face. Suckers.
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When we get more fuel efficient. They will jack prices up because of lower consumption will hurt there bottom line. They will just refine less. These guys have learned from the health industry how to screw people.
Ray Saudi already working on controlling cement manufacturing and prices on fertilizer. They are buying up companies and of course know their oil will run low someday. There not waiting. I'm afraid our government is.
Ray Saudi already working on controlling cement manufacturing and prices on fertilizer. They are buying up companies and of course know their oil will run low someday. There not waiting. I'm afraid our government is.
Not that oil is the only way our Government is letting us down but this story seemed to fit the swing this thread has taken.
Oil Surges $2 on 'Super-Spike' Prediction
LONDON (Reuters) - Oil hurtled back up to $56 a barrel on Thursday as Goldman Sachs bank, the biggest trader of energy derivatives, said prices could ultimately surge all the way above $100.
The Goldman Sachs report strengthened gains driven by a fall in U.S. gasoline stocks and fresh buying from investment funds as the dollar weakened.
U.S. light crude jumped $2.11, or 3.9 percent, to a high of $56.10 a barrel, within $1.50 of a $57.60 record high struck on March 17.
Benchmark Brent futures leapt $2.76 to $54.85, catching up with Wednesday's late recovery on the New York market, which this week closes an hour later than the London exchange.
Oil prices have climbed around 25 percent this year as signals that rapid demand growth in emerging economies China and India will strain world supply ignited heavy buying from big-money funds.
Goldman Sachs bank (NYSE:GS - news) said in a research report on Thursday that oil markets have entered a "super-spike" period that could see prices rising as high as $105 a barrel.
"We believe oil markets may have entered the early stages of what we have referred to as a "super spike" period -- a multi-year trading band of oil prices high enough to meaningfully reduce energy consumption and recreate a spare capacity cushion only after which will lower energy prices return," Goldman's analysts wrote.
Goldman's Global Investment Research note also raised the bank's 2005 and 2006 NYMEX crude price forecasts to $50 and $55 respectively, from $41 and $40.
These forecasts sit at the top of a table of predictions from 25 analysts, consultants and government bodies surveyed by Reuters .
U.S. oil futures on the New York Mercantile Exchange have averaged $50.02 per barrel so far in 2005 up from a record $41.48 last year.
The U.S. government reported on Wednesday that U.S. gasoline supplies fell 2.9 million barrels to 214.4 million barrels last week, the fourth decline in a row ahead of summer when consumption peaks.
Gasoline demand has been running two percent higher than last year in the past four weeks, despite record prices at the pump, making the 6.3 percent inventory surplus versus last year's level less comforting than it would appear.
Also encouraging gains, the dollar -- the currency of global oil trade -- retreated further on Thursday from a five-month high against the yen.
A weaker dollar has encouraged funds to switch money from treasury markets into commodities, as well as insulating fuel consumption in non-dollar economies from the impact of higher crude prices.
The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries raised its formal output ceiling by 500,000 barrels per day (bpd) to 27.5 million bpd in mid-March to pump up second-quarter global stocks, creating a cushion for anticipated year-end demand.
Oil Surges $2 on 'Super-Spike' Prediction
LONDON (Reuters) - Oil hurtled back up to $56 a barrel on Thursday as Goldman Sachs bank, the biggest trader of energy derivatives, said prices could ultimately surge all the way above $100.
The Goldman Sachs report strengthened gains driven by a fall in U.S. gasoline stocks and fresh buying from investment funds as the dollar weakened.
U.S. light crude jumped $2.11, or 3.9 percent, to a high of $56.10 a barrel, within $1.50 of a $57.60 record high struck on March 17.
Benchmark Brent futures leapt $2.76 to $54.85, catching up with Wednesday's late recovery on the New York market, which this week closes an hour later than the London exchange.
Oil prices have climbed around 25 percent this year as signals that rapid demand growth in emerging economies China and India will strain world supply ignited heavy buying from big-money funds.
Goldman Sachs bank (NYSE:GS - news) said in a research report on Thursday that oil markets have entered a "super-spike" period that could see prices rising as high as $105 a barrel.
"We believe oil markets may have entered the early stages of what we have referred to as a "super spike" period -- a multi-year trading band of oil prices high enough to meaningfully reduce energy consumption and recreate a spare capacity cushion only after which will lower energy prices return," Goldman's analysts wrote.
Goldman's Global Investment Research note also raised the bank's 2005 and 2006 NYMEX crude price forecasts to $50 and $55 respectively, from $41 and $40.
These forecasts sit at the top of a table of predictions from 25 analysts, consultants and government bodies surveyed by Reuters .
U.S. oil futures on the New York Mercantile Exchange have averaged $50.02 per barrel so far in 2005 up from a record $41.48 last year.
The U.S. government reported on Wednesday that U.S. gasoline supplies fell 2.9 million barrels to 214.4 million barrels last week, the fourth decline in a row ahead of summer when consumption peaks.
Gasoline demand has been running two percent higher than last year in the past four weeks, despite record prices at the pump, making the 6.3 percent inventory surplus versus last year's level less comforting than it would appear.
Also encouraging gains, the dollar -- the currency of global oil trade -- retreated further on Thursday from a five-month high against the yen.
A weaker dollar has encouraged funds to switch money from treasury markets into commodities, as well as insulating fuel consumption in non-dollar economies from the impact of higher crude prices.
The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries raised its formal output ceiling by 500,000 barrels per day (bpd) to 27.5 million bpd in mid-March to pump up second-quarter global stocks, creating a cushion for anticipated year-end demand.
i'm not worried about the gas prices.it's still relatively cheap.
what bothers me about our gov't. & has been mentioned many times in this forum....is the illegal immigration problem.
the only reason why bush is increasing by 500 more people patrolling the southern border is because of the threat from these militia men.
in addition to the obvious, these militia men will bring the media to the border. bush & all of the other "comfortable" politicians are afraid that the american people will actually see the chaos that is going on there.
but he is wrong if he thinks 500 more people will slow down these illegals from crossing over the u.s.
more has to be done & it's about time that our elected officials do something about it.
what bothers me about our gov't. & has been mentioned many times in this forum....is the illegal immigration problem.
the only reason why bush is increasing by 500 more people patrolling the southern border is because of the threat from these militia men.
in addition to the obvious, these militia men will bring the media to the border. bush & all of the other "comfortable" politicians are afraid that the american people will actually see the chaos that is going on there.
but he is wrong if he thinks 500 more people will slow down these illegals from crossing over the u.s.
more has to be done & it's about time that our elected officials do something about it.
Liberals like Nick Douglas in the media will scream "racism" at the first person to enforce border policy.
Look at him, he already called all of us racists for wanting it shut down. He says we are all "inherent racists" and that is at the heart of the issue.
The mainstream media -- LA Times, Houston Chronicle, NYT, Wash. Post, Chicago Tribune, etc. etc. cry this and immediately the uneducated Hispanic voter believes that Republicans or whoever makes the first bold move are against them.
Immediately a whole constituency is won by the other party.
This is very similar to affirmative action.
Conservatives are against it, and they are labelled as being racist for doing so. We dont care if you are 75% African 25% Hispanic or 75% Asian and 25% African. You shoudlnt get extra points because of your heritage. Similarily, if you are 25% French and 25% African and 50 % Asian you shouldnt be at disadvantage agains the 50% African 25% German and 25% Norwegian. It is a bunch of nonsense and AA is a racist policy if there ever was one. The media however turns those against it into a bunch of racists. Thus the uneducated blacks see the conservatives and Republicans as people who are against them. The Dem's and media play on this victim card and its over at the polls.
So 90% of the black vote votes democrat. This kills Republicans at the polls and if not for this constituency, the Dem's would have about 20 seats in the Senate right now.
If similar things happen with the Hispanics, the Dem's will own 60% of the seats. And Texas, Az, NM (which is already going) will be the next states to turn blue.
Its BS and I wish Bush would take a stand while there is still a chance. Minnesota, Iowa, Michigan, Wisky, and Ohio would turn red or redder and now is pretty much the only time before there is absolutely no hope to enforce the border.
Either be courageous now or wait for the next 9-11 as our enemies walk across to hunt us down and pick us off.
God Bless the minutemen. The last courageous souls.
Amazing foresight in how our founders who said the militia will always be our last defense.
Look at him, he already called all of us racists for wanting it shut down. He says we are all "inherent racists" and that is at the heart of the issue.
The mainstream media -- LA Times, Houston Chronicle, NYT, Wash. Post, Chicago Tribune, etc. etc. cry this and immediately the uneducated Hispanic voter believes that Republicans or whoever makes the first bold move are against them.
Immediately a whole constituency is won by the other party.
This is very similar to affirmative action.
Conservatives are against it, and they are labelled as being racist for doing so. We dont care if you are 75% African 25% Hispanic or 75% Asian and 25% African. You shoudlnt get extra points because of your heritage. Similarily, if you are 25% French and 25% African and 50 % Asian you shouldnt be at disadvantage agains the 50% African 25% German and 25% Norwegian. It is a bunch of nonsense and AA is a racist policy if there ever was one. The media however turns those against it into a bunch of racists. Thus the uneducated blacks see the conservatives and Republicans as people who are against them. The Dem's and media play on this victim card and its over at the polls.
So 90% of the black vote votes democrat. This kills Republicans at the polls and if not for this constituency, the Dem's would have about 20 seats in the Senate right now.
If similar things happen with the Hispanics, the Dem's will own 60% of the seats. And Texas, Az, NM (which is already going) will be the next states to turn blue.
Its BS and I wish Bush would take a stand while there is still a chance. Minnesota, Iowa, Michigan, Wisky, and Ohio would turn red or redder and now is pretty much the only time before there is absolutely no hope to enforce the border.
Either be courageous now or wait for the next 9-11 as our enemies walk across to hunt us down and pick us off.
God Bless the minutemen. The last courageous souls.
Amazing foresight in how our founders who said the militia will always be our last defense.
people are sadly mistaking if they don't think that there is a problem with illegals sneaking across the border.
these same people will be the first to cry if there is another 911.
these same people will be the first to cry if there is another 911.
I don't know anybody who doesn't think it is a problem. Guys like Freeze like to jump on the media bandwagon and claim that an issue is his. Well, you have the Senate, the House, and the President and your boys ain't doing a damn thing about it. So explain to me again how you conservatives are against it because it doesn't look like they are.
Most of us, Left and Right, are fairly conservative on this issue. Almost none of our political leaders, Left or Right, are conservative on this issue. They say what it takes to get elected and put a fear in us that the other candidates would be worse. Depending on how sold out they are to those that prosper from illegals directly relates to how little they do. Bush is very sold out, so we are getting a lot of nothing from him.
smurphy quote:"Bush is very sold out, so we are getting a lot of nothing from him."
unfortunately for our country's sake you are right.
not everybody thinks that this is a problem.
unfortunately for our country's sake you are right.
not everybody thinks that this is a problem.
