It is about time...
- Thread starter ferdville
- Start date
ferdville said:
How many years did it take for our democracy to get up and running? Did we have blood spilled here too during our fight for freedom? You would know better than I Fred. We are still at war. These things take time. We were all forewarned that this would be a long haul. Taking out Saddam was a cinch. Mission accomplished. The hard part is helping these people get up and running with a whole new democracy and nation. Helping them create an entirely new government. They have lived in hell for over 40 years these things take time. We can't give up.
You mention 41 deaths but how many people have been killed so far this year in "our democracy"? Or Britains?? Prob hundreds if not thousands of times more. Hell London lost more people in one day then the 41 you mentioned for the year. Trust me I understand it's tough to lose soldiers but the soldiers know they are fighting for a just cause. I know people who are there and I talk to them frequently. They tell a hell of a lot different story about what things are like over there. All we see here is the negative. The liberal media tries to brainwash everyone.
remember :nono: *Bad news makes for good news!!
It sells newspapers. Why do you think the NY Times ran 52 front page articles on Abu Grabe but none showing anything positive from the other side of the coin??...all I'm saying is check yourself. Don't let propoganda get the best of you.
What's really what is important is how our troops feel. I'm glad those troops gave Ted Kennedy a hard time last month. I trust our troops. Not some fat drunk murderer who says Iraq is "in shambles", and certainly not the New York or LA Times.
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Iraq is a mess get used to it. And talk about bad news sells. Is that why FOX gives us 2 hours of the missing girl in Aruba everyday. I wonder if she was anything but white if you would see more then 5 minutes. Not 2 hours for 60 days. But your right chit always sells better. And they go plenty in Iraq to sell.
What does Fox news or Aruba or somone being caucasian have to do with Iraq? That was a little weird but now that I think about it you just helped solidify my point though......thanks. :clap:
It is Viet Nam all over again. Hopefully we won't end up with 50,000+ dead.
Palehose and Manson - explain what we gained from our conflict in Viet Nam. Was it worth if? If so why? On one hand you guys say who cares what the rest of the world thinks? But now you are concerned. Tell us, how do you envision Iraq in 2010?
Palehose and Manson - explain what we gained from our conflict in Viet Nam. Was it worth if? If so why? On one hand you guys say who cares what the rest of the world thinks? But now you are concerned. Tell us, how do you envision Iraq in 2010?
I will first say that I truly think we will prevail. We've been through worse. I'll also be the first to admit that I am no expert on Vietnam. My post was in reference to the current war. Some people compare the two, and others don't. I concede your expertise in history studies Fred. In fact you are the only one on MJ's who I actuallly find myself looking up to at times. I have no problem with centrists. Nobody knows what Iraq will be like in 5 years. There is no way to tell. For all we know Baghdad will turn out to be another Israel where violence is a daily thing. Maybe it will be nuked. Maybe Washington will be nuked in 5 years......you should read some of Bill Gertz's stuff...it's very disturbing. However Iraq truns out in 5 years time will tell. I could lay out the way I would love to see it, but I do not trust the terrorists. Anything can happen. We just need to fight as hard as we can fight. Bear Bryant used to say "After the game, in the lockerroom, look at yourself in the mirror. Ask yourself if you did the best you could." I don't remember the whole speech, but my point is that it is better to fail trying your best then fail because you gave up.
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Of course it would be best to finish the job. We should have finished the job in Viet Nam, although we didn't start that mess. The problem is that it doesn't look like we can finish the job for many reasons. One is that our Commander in Chief will not authorize the type of military action required to do the job there. Secondly, there are large cliques in Iraq that do not want us to impose our systems on them. Those two problems go together like rice and beans. Without aggressive military action, which is not likely to be approved, we cannot rid the region of the militants. Therefore, we cannot do the job.
I supported our President and bought in to what we were doing. But we are just runnin on a treadmill with the rest of the rats. I don't see what will change that, do you?
As far as running being a sign of weakness, I remember a quote from Shakespeare ... "Discretion is the better part of valor." Sometimes the sensible thing to do is run.
I supported our President and bought in to what we were doing. But we are just runnin on a treadmill with the rest of the rats. I don't see what will change that, do you?
As far as running being a sign of weakness, I remember a quote from Shakespeare ... "Discretion is the better part of valor." Sometimes the sensible thing to do is run.
Thanks for your intellect and participation. Glad you have some good solid input. I know it's tough for you to keep up with the rest of us. Hang in there.
As ferdville already mentioned....how are you guys going to finish the job so you can even eventually leave?
You guys need an armored convoy just to go around the block to get a donut, you have no secure perimeter set up so the insurgents blend in with the public and come and go as they please....you guys whack a dozen of thiers and thier cousins take up the fight, so don't tell me you're running out of bad dudes to fight like that idiot Cheney said about "the insurgency in it's dying throes"......there have been plenty of attacks since those cute words were mistakenly uttered, just like Bush's "mission accomplished" and hundreds of deaths later, the mission is NOT accomplished....
They have thousands of people to throw at you guys, the only thing you're going to accomplish over there is reloading the weapons for the next wave of violent religious fanatics.....
Some people say it'd tragic to cut and run because then the fallen soldiers deaths wouldn't mean anything, but they're forgetting about the soldiers who haven't died yet and how much more grief American soldier's families will face fighting for a cause that cannot be won.
Put in all the years and deaths you want to over there, it's all going to turn out the same, only a matter of how many soldiers are wasted trying to eliminate non-stop religious fanatics willing to strap on a bomb and die.
You guys would still be taking casualties in Nam if you were trying to make the dead soldiers life count for anything....that mentality is about as bright as the guy who lost a load of money on the weekend and now is forcing a play on Monday night to recoup the losses....you guys are CHASING.......are you guys willing to spend another eight or ten years over there, losing thousands more troops just to find out what you already know now?
Where is your final victory at over there?
You guys need an armored convoy just to go around the block to get a donut, you have no secure perimeter set up so the insurgents blend in with the public and come and go as they please....you guys whack a dozen of thiers and thier cousins take up the fight, so don't tell me you're running out of bad dudes to fight like that idiot Cheney said about "the insurgency in it's dying throes"......there have been plenty of attacks since those cute words were mistakenly uttered, just like Bush's "mission accomplished" and hundreds of deaths later, the mission is NOT accomplished....
They have thousands of people to throw at you guys, the only thing you're going to accomplish over there is reloading the weapons for the next wave of violent religious fanatics.....
Some people say it'd tragic to cut and run because then the fallen soldiers deaths wouldn't mean anything, but they're forgetting about the soldiers who haven't died yet and how much more grief American soldier's families will face fighting for a cause that cannot be won.
Put in all the years and deaths you want to over there, it's all going to turn out the same, only a matter of how many soldiers are wasted trying to eliminate non-stop religious fanatics willing to strap on a bomb and die.
You guys would still be taking casualties in Nam if you were trying to make the dead soldiers life count for anything....that mentality is about as bright as the guy who lost a load of money on the weekend and now is forcing a play on Monday night to recoup the losses....you guys are CHASING.......are you guys willing to spend another eight or ten years over there, losing thousands more troops just to find out what you already know now?
Where is your final victory at over there?
I stringly beg to differ. You have never even been to Iraq have you? I know people who are there and they describe Iraq differently than you do. Maybe I should start posting letters from soldiers to prove you wrong. Where are you getting your information from? Just curious.
"Where are you getting your information from?"
What information are you confused about?
Cheney's statement about the insurgency almost done?
Bush's "mission accomplished"?
The string of roadside bombs and suicide bombers Iraq has been witness to?
What facts are you trying to contest?
Maybe 1800+ troops actually haven't died over there? Tell the grieving families to open the coffins because you don't believe it?
The mayor of Baghdad gets deposed by armed thugs, the police precincts get blown up, the humvee drives down the street and gets shredded by a roadside bomb, and I'm the one with the facts incorrect?
Where is your final victory over there?
What information are you confused about?
Cheney's statement about the insurgency almost done?
Bush's "mission accomplished"?
The string of roadside bombs and suicide bombers Iraq has been witness to?
What facts are you trying to contest?
Maybe 1800+ troops actually haven't died over there? Tell the grieving families to open the coffins because you don't believe it?
The mayor of Baghdad gets deposed by armed thugs, the police precincts get blown up, the humvee drives down the street and gets shredded by a roadside bomb, and I'm the one with the facts incorrect?
Where is your final victory over there?
Mission Accomplished was a banner hung on a warship. The warship had just finished accomplishing it's mission. Go read Gen. Tommy Frank's book and you'll see for yourself. You just have no clue what you are talking about.
over 400,000 mass graves have been uncovered in Iraq. There people were bound and blindfolded with bullet holes in their head....women and children.... ...Saddam exterminated those people.....to quote you....tell the greiving families to open the mass graves
dont make me show pics
over 400,000 mass graves have been uncovered in Iraq. There people were bound and blindfolded with bullet holes in their head....women and children.... ...Saddam exterminated those people.....to quote you....tell the greiving families to open the mass graves
dont make me show pics
Since you prob never read Gen Frank's book.....Just for the sake of argument.....our first mission was to overthrow Saddam's government. That MISSION WAS ACCOMPLISHED in about 15 minutes.
If you think Mission Accomplished was a signal our work is done in Iraq then you have been brainwashed by the liberal Bush-bashing media. We were told by the president that this would take years so don't give me your selective-hearing bullshit.
If you think Mission Accomplished was a signal our work is done in Iraq then you have been brainwashed by the liberal Bush-bashing media. We were told by the president that this would take years so don't give me your selective-hearing bullshit.
CHARLESMANSON said:
Wrong, we were only told this AFTER it became obvious (to him finally) that this would be the case. That is, about a year after we invaded.
