A lot of people are saying this but in reality Izzo only has one NCAA championship and he was very fortunate to play the 3rd and 4th round game at the Palace in Auburn Hills.........I remember the MSU game against Iowa State that year and MSU got many questionable calls go their way against Tinsley,Fizer,Eustacy and company.......I thought if they played on a neutral court ISU would have won that game.........in any case I think although Roy Williams has not cut down the nets he is still a very good coach.........Just my thoughts
Izzo a better coach than Williams?????
- Thread starter maverick2112
- Start date
I dont even think it's close. Roy is nowhere the coach that Izzo is, and I absolutely agree that the MSU title is tainted. Is Roy a good coach - sure. Good recruiter - absolutely. Good man - as far as I know. Guy you want making bench decisions when it is nut cutting time - no way. As a guy said on Houston radio tonight "UNC should win the title and I think they will. If it happens, it will be in spite of Roy Williams, not because of him."
I agree MSU was fortunate to have those games at the Palace. I thought going into that tourney that MSU and ISU may have been the 1-2 teams in the tourney.
But as far as Izzo vs. Roy... I'm with Sun... not even close.
But as far as Izzo vs. Roy... I'm with Sun... not even close.
Food for thought Sun (In agreement with you guys that Izzo step above right now)...
Do you realize roy missed 14 of 19 free throws in the second half of a 3-pt National Championship game two years back? he's a CHOKE. Um, no, it was his players.
Did you know how many final 4 trips it took Coach K to win the NC? Five. He lost in '86, '88, '89 & '90 before finally winning.
Did you know at one point Dean Smith was 0-for-6 in Final Fours?
Just as Roy gets it, Dean certainly heard the same garbage until he won the NC. Just think things need to be put in perspective, you would be hard pressed to say Dean Smith and Coach K aren't great coaches.
Do you realize roy missed 14 of 19 free throws in the second half of a 3-pt National Championship game two years back? he's a CHOKE. Um, no, it was his players.
Did you know how many final 4 trips it took Coach K to win the NC? Five. He lost in '86, '88, '89 & '90 before finally winning.
Did you know at one point Dean Smith was 0-for-6 in Final Fours?
Just as Roy gets it, Dean certainly heard the same garbage until he won the NC. Just think things need to be put in perspective, you would be hard pressed to say Dean Smith and Coach K aren't great coaches.
Uhh his team was down 20 plus in that game because he had them playing no defense getting run out of the gym. The fts wouldnt have mattered if they had bothered to play in the first half. They did shoot poorly at the line - probably why Syracuse slept walk into letting them come back. Sure in the end it is players - but he doesnt adjust and his game strategy is nuts. While you have one more forgiving example could give you several to counter it (and I am sure you could too). You tell me wtf he was doing against Wiscy and Nova. I hope you can do better than "we want the other team to take wide open shots".
As for K he is a good coach, yet VERY overrated. Maybe it sounds crazy, but to be a one seed a zillion times, talent beyond talent, seemingly playing every game 8 on 5 and 2 or more tourney games close to home almost every year, 11 final fours and only 3 wins is underachieving. Heck, the win over Arizona is still one of the most shameful officiating performances I have ever seen.
Dean I am torn on in this respect. He might well have zero titles but for 2 of the most boneheaded plays in NCAA history. I am still not sure he ever showed up to coach in the 1977 final v Marquette or 1981 v Indiana - 2 games with teams looking totally unprepared. But then he had teams like 1984 that just plain didnt play for him that should have dominated. Also keep in mind Guthridge of all people steps in and goes to 2 FF - what does that tell us? But Dean was a winner and however he got it he got the hardware.
Dean heard it but it was different. With Dean it was more of "cant get over the hump" like it was for Elway as an example. Dean wasnt a choker when he couldnt beat UCLA, or couldnt beat NCState and Maryland in the early 70s. Roy's teams have plain choked. He has had the best team several times. He has the best team this year - if he doesnt win it this team he didnt prepare them or he couldnt get them to play for him. Perhaps it will be a horrible bad break that beats him, but those are rare. As I said last week, like Dean got, maybe he will finally win this time after the breaks in the bracket, the bs call against Nova, or the idiocy of Wiscy's down the stretch strategy. Maybe for once he has the karma. I dont think so, but we will know come Monday.
As for K he is a good coach, yet VERY overrated. Maybe it sounds crazy, but to be a one seed a zillion times, talent beyond talent, seemingly playing every game 8 on 5 and 2 or more tourney games close to home almost every year, 11 final fours and only 3 wins is underachieving. Heck, the win over Arizona is still one of the most shameful officiating performances I have ever seen.
Dean I am torn on in this respect. He might well have zero titles but for 2 of the most boneheaded plays in NCAA history. I am still not sure he ever showed up to coach in the 1977 final v Marquette or 1981 v Indiana - 2 games with teams looking totally unprepared. But then he had teams like 1984 that just plain didnt play for him that should have dominated. Also keep in mind Guthridge of all people steps in and goes to 2 FF - what does that tell us? But Dean was a winner and however he got it he got the hardware.
Dean heard it but it was different. With Dean it was more of "cant get over the hump" like it was for Elway as an example. Dean wasnt a choker when he couldnt beat UCLA, or couldnt beat NCState and Maryland in the early 70s. Roy's teams have plain choked. He has had the best team several times. He has the best team this year - if he doesnt win it this team he didnt prepare them or he couldnt get them to play for him. Perhaps it will be a horrible bad break that beats him, but those are rare. As I said last week, like Dean got, maybe he will finally win this time after the breaks in the bracket, the bs call against Nova, or the idiocy of Wiscy's down the stretch strategy. Maybe for once he has the karma. I dont think so, but we will know come Monday.
i agree on the Al McGuire loss but kuphcak was out, Ford was gimpy too ... The 84 collapse to dan dakich cloacking MJ was a joke ... beating GTWN and MICH was no mean feat no matter how it was done, those were good opps ... I would like to hear your top 5 coaches ever that youve seen ...
1. wooden
2. knight
3. smith
4. crum
5. pitino
( i know im leaving myself open to many cries, but these guy impressed me ... there are many others I respect immensely ... some not talked about as much: Pete Carril and Ralph Miller and Jack Hartman and Dick Tarrant and Tom Davis and Abe Lemons and Johnny Orr and Don Haskins ... ... Other biggies: Lute, Coach K, Calhoun, Larry Brown, Lefty, Dick Harter, Carnesecca, Rollie, J. Thompson, Huggins, Jud, Chaney, Izzo, Sutton, Clem Haskins, Gary Wiillams, N. Richardson, Majerus, and the Shark ... lotsa guys I like now too, that I havent seen enuff of) and I know i missed many
take care
gregg
1. wooden
2. knight
3. smith
4. crum
5. pitino
( i know im leaving myself open to many cries, but these guy impressed me ... there are many others I respect immensely ... some not talked about as much: Pete Carril and Ralph Miller and Jack Hartman and Dick Tarrant and Tom Davis and Abe Lemons and Johnny Orr and Don Haskins ... ... Other biggies: Lute, Coach K, Calhoun, Larry Brown, Lefty, Dick Harter, Carnesecca, Rollie, J. Thompson, Huggins, Jud, Chaney, Izzo, Sutton, Clem Haskins, Gary Wiillams, N. Richardson, Majerus, and the Shark ... lotsa guys I like now too, that I havent seen enuff of) and I know i missed many
take care
gregg
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I watch McCants play.
That's all I need to know about the coaching ability of one Mr Williams. :mj07:
Williams might as well give them a pre game speech and then go out and grab a beer and a burger till the game ends.
That's all I need to know about the coaching ability of one Mr Williams. :mj07:
Williams might as well give them a pre game speech and then go out and grab a beer and a burger till the game ends.
Pitino is the best coach remaining in the final four.
back to on-topic
izzo > r.williams
BTW - I really, really dont sleep.
back to on-topic
izzo > r.williams
BTW - I really, really dont sleep.
SunTzu........sometimes I have to laugh at your replys........you give williams and KU a bad rap for falling behind against Syracuse saying they played no defense..........did you even watch the game???? The Cuse was draining 3 after 3 way downtown and thats why KU fell behind...........funny you dont mention that same gameplan was good enough to beat highly ranked Arizona in Anaheim(who do you think had the most fans in that one)........then they absolutely killed a Marquette team featuring pro superstar Dwayne Wade in the semi-final.
No you dont bring up these games.(they also beat Duke in that run).........and its a mistake to say Ku was better than Syracuse........KU had 2 pro players on that team Collison and Heinrich vs the cuse who had Carmelo and Warrick.(and Gerry Mac had a great game also)......pretty even teams I would say.(Simein didnt play due to injury)......and lets not forget KU could have tied the game and went into ot if they hit that last 3......The only time I think Roy had the best team was when they lost to Arizona when they had LaFrentz,Pierce and Vaughn.......if you remember its not like Zona didnt get on a major roll that tourney....in fact they beat Kentucky and Mr. Pitino so some other good coaches lost to Zona also........
No you dont bring up these games.(they also beat Duke in that run).........and its a mistake to say Ku was better than Syracuse........KU had 2 pro players on that team Collison and Heinrich vs the cuse who had Carmelo and Warrick.(and Gerry Mac had a great game also)......pretty even teams I would say.(Simein didnt play due to injury)......and lets not forget KU could have tied the game and went into ot if they hit that last 3......The only time I think Roy had the best team was when they lost to Arizona when they had LaFrentz,Pierce and Vaughn.......if you remember its not like Zona didnt get on a major roll that tourney....in fact they beat Kentucky and Mr. Pitino so some other good coaches lost to Zona also........
Yeah I watched...I was there. Laugh if you want. they are just opinions. None of us is "right" or "wrong" on such a thing.
Pt as for coaches, I actually agree as to those in the top 5. Iin my opinion:
1. Knight
2. Wooden
3. Crum (when you consider that in some years HE was coaching UCLA)
4. Smith
5. Pitino
Many other good and great ones but to me these guys are a cut above.
Pt as for coaches, I actually agree as to those in the top 5. Iin my opinion:
1. Knight
2. Wooden
3. Crum (when you consider that in some years HE was coaching UCLA)
4. Smith
5. Pitino
Many other good and great ones but to me these guys are a cut above.
Who can say what the criteria is for deciding the top 5, 10, or whatever college coaches?
John Chaney is in the Hall of Fame, so the requirements for entry there are a little questionable. If the voting has anything to do with what happens after college, i.e., future development, only two college coaches have coached three NBA players into the celebrated Top 50 of all time list:
Dean Smith (Hall of Fame)
Guy Lewis (not in Hall of Fame)
So if Roy Dub doesn't win again this year, it doesn't mean he couldn't coach, or wasn't a great coach, but was perceived not to be, until further notice.
John Chaney is in the Hall of Fame, so the requirements for entry there are a little questionable. If the voting has anything to do with what happens after college, i.e., future development, only two college coaches have coached three NBA players into the celebrated Top 50 of all time list:
Dean Smith (Hall of Fame)
Guy Lewis (not in Hall of Fame)
So if Roy Dub doesn't win again this year, it doesn't mean he couldn't coach, or wasn't a great coach, but was perceived not to be, until further notice.
my two cents..williams is a good coach, but how he never won with some of those teams he had at kansas is beyond me. Its not so much izzo will outcoach him today, but he will make his players perform better(iie : not make mistakes). Izzo's teams are always better prepared.
GoTerps said:
Not to many players off those "Great Teams" did very well in the NBA........Pierce, Collison and Heinrich are the exceptions but before that did he really have the best talent.......I dont recall any great players from previous KU teams being all that great........La Frentz is ok but he is also not really had a very good NBA career........
I am not spitting hairs here but Roy Williams is a very good coach.........you dont get the wins he has without being very good.........sometimes its just about talent.
it's the old "srewed if you do, srewed if you don't.". If UNC and Roy win it this year people will say big deal they were "supposed" to they have the most talent. If we don't people will say we underachieved. You can't judge 2 coaches on 1 game. If so, I guess Roy is the man huh? Not really that easy IMO.
It's nice to be back up top at UNC
It's nice to be back up top at UNC
