Just because you question the war...

[SmashMouth]

Doesn't mean you are not patriotic
Or That you don't want blood from the people who perpetrated 9/11
Nor does it mean you are liberal, or a tree hugger.
It doesn't mean you don't support our troops 100%
It doesn't mean you should be subjected to ridicule or name calling.
You should not have your manhood questioned because you pray that innocent people don't lose their lives. Not to mention all of the service men and women who will perrish.
Don't ever question someones Patriotism for asking questions about a war that they are not sure of. Asking questions is covered by Freedom of speech. Don't forget that.

 

[shamrock]

smash, couldn't agree more. And my brother 4 years younger than me was at 1 world trade on 9/11. He made it out ok, but his company lost 22 people. Obviously Iraq must be dealt with at some point, but personally I think Bush has gone about it completely wrong. And furthermore I think North Korea is a much more threat presently. Just my opinion.

Shamrock

 

[PRO190]

WHAT you people Do Not GET is:::

1)Saddam invaded a helpless country
2)Saddam got his ASS kicked
3)Saddam agreed to CONDITIONAL SURRENDER
4)Saddam is a reneger

I'll spell it out further::
You go to prison for a crime(His War), you get Parole(his conditional surrender), you violate parole(his weapons violations etc), Guess What>>YOU GET MORE TIME FOR VIOLATIONS and LOSE ALL TIME CREDITED ON PAROLE(he gets his Ass kicked again + he gets exiled or Dead)

Say what you want, it is not going to change the fact it will be game on shortly, when it is, give your concession speech and back our men and women::

 

[SmashMouth]

my concession speech?? Number 1 I will always back the military FOR REASONS i DON'T NEED TO EXPLAIN TO ANYONE. Secondly don't talk down to me, I have a right to my opinion, as I vote, I served my country, and I'm not an idiot. I won't bring up the education part, because I don't like to talk down to people, or compete like that. You believe what you believe.
If this leads to something alot bigger in the Arab world, are you prepared to give your concession speech?

 

[shamrock]

pro, I'm not even going to argue with you. You have your right to opinion like everyone else. I completely agree that Saddam will have to be dealt with at some time, but Bush has had this paramount on his agenda since previous to his election. The ill informed might think Saddam & his murders are a military threat presently, meanwhile N Korea has nukes, is developing more, is selling arms all over the ****ing planet. Has fired 2 missiles in the last 5 days, and locked on to a American U2 just a couple days ago.

Again just to clarify, Iraq needs to be dealt with, but Bush' s priorities have been slanted since prior to his election. Just my opinion.

Shamrock

 

[AR182]

Smashmouth,

Nobody's patriotism should be questioned at all if they oppose the war legitimatly. However I have a problem with people who don't really oppose the war because of moral reasons, but because they are anti-Bush.They are letting politics interfere with national security.For example, how come people are opposed to this war but weren't opposed to Clinton bombing kosovo & bosnia, & taking out milosevic? Was it because milosevic was a bigger threat to the US than saddam? Of course not, it is politics.They also have objected to Bush attacking iraq unilaterately, but never said anything when Clinton acted without the un's approval, & had less allies on his side than Bush now has.In fairness, I had a problem with the republicans who voiced their opposition with Clinton's action only because he is a democrat.
BTW, I voted for Clinton & did not vote for Bush, but agreed with Clinton's actions & agree with Bush. I do think saddam is a threat to our country & believe he does business with terrorists, including alqaeda.9/11 has changed my thinking with these thugs. Reason will not work. They only know force.Terrorism cannot be tolerated in a civilized society & gov'ts. that deal with terrorists have to be overthrown.

Pro190, Good post, except with the concession speech part. You should not talk down to Smashmouth, he is a good poster.

 

[AR182]

Shamrock,

I guess I am ill informed because I believe iraq is a threat to our country. Of course not militarily, but how can anyone stop him from giving someone a suitcase, with anthrax in it, & take to US to unleash at a major city such as Boston?

What makes you think that iraq was on Bush's mind prior to his election? On the contrary I believe the complete opposite. Bush wanted an isolationist policy, that is why he is having problems with france,germany, etc.

IMO, north korea is a threat, but i believe they are doing what they do because they need food aid. Bush wants his neighbors, such as china & russia to get involved, since nk is a bigger threat to them then to us.

 

[PRO190]

I'm not talking DOWN to anybody , to condense his post as to what I hear, he doesn't want anyone thinking he is not Patriotic and all that is normally associated with that position::

They all have gripes and concerns but NO ALTERNATIVES to protecting my Family and me::

Screw that bastid in Iraq, Everybody thought 911 would NEVER HAPPEN TOO, WAKE UP, THEY Despise us and will never let up.

The prof from Sfl was just a poor man being persecuted for his beliefs, WHOA, where are all the bleeding hearts now that they have the goods on him and the list goes on:::::::::::

All we do is support 3/4 of the countries on this planet and in RETURN get grief from most of them::

They had 2500 "Peace" protesters in Madison last week, they posted in High schools and grade schools to "walk out" for peace: well I was down on State street with 300 "Pro War" supporters and we had 6 hs and gs students point out on a map where IRAQ was located, they all were dead wrong and these kids are being pulled out of SCHOOL:::

ETC etc etc::::::::::::::::

 

[SmashMouth]

I also worry about protecting my family. That is why I wonder why we are going to attack them unprovoaked now, when we know that the terrorists from 9/11 were either Saudi Or Egyptian. We have not made any demands on the gov'ts of those two nations to let us search for terrorists, maybe interview or question some of the hijackers families and you will find more real threats to our country. I don't debate that Hussein has to go. I just contend that he is way down on the list. You worry about your kids and family, well why not build up our security at home. Seel the freaking borders permanently and keep huntin bin laden And Alquaeda. When they are done, go after Hamas, islamic jihad.
Going after Iraq is starting a war that is going to piss off even level headed islamic people. Led alone the hardcore nuts. If these fawkers all were to band together, It would be Us, Britain, and Israel against the Islamic world. We'd win, but at what cost?

 

[ferdville]

It is not unpatriotic to question the issue of war. It is unpatriotic, just in my opinion, if your anti-war efforts affect our troops in any way ,shape or form. Not to mention the propaganda value that the protestors offer our enemies. Nevertheless, we cannot disallow protesting. As AR182 suggests, are the majority of these protestors protesting the potential bombing of Iraq, or are they protesting "W" and his policies? If it is the bombing of Iraq that has everybody up in arms, where were the same people in 1998 when Clinton bombed Iraq without the consent of the U.N.? Jeanine Garafalo is the only person that I have ever heard that stated she had protested that also. I would submit that we would still see a plethora of protestors even if the inspections (a joke in themselves) turned up thousands of gallons of chemical and biological weapons; a few nukes and assorted other so-called weapons of mass destruction. While it doesn't hold true on these forums where people have to take the time to speak their mind, I believe that alot of the protestors in the street are there primarily for the party of it all. Hey, I grew up in the 60's and I can tell you a thing about street protestors. The partiers outnumbered those with a cause by about 10 -1. The very fact that we can exchange opinions is what makes this a great country.

 

[djv]

The thing that get me is every day there is a new reason for war.
Fear war with all your hearts guys.
This chit in Iraq has had these weapons for how many years. I guess all the way back to when we were helping him with Iran. And we did do that help him. Reagan thougth it was the right thing at that time. So we can go back 50 years 100 years and talk about all the mistakes the right and left made. There is enough to go around for all.
One thing that puzzles me is these weapons. He had most for over 12 to 15 years. Never used any on us in that time. Now our government seem scared as hell he will do it it next 10 or 12 days. What the hell those guys eating in Wash DC. He is not going to do such a thing.
Yes he invade Kuwait. There is history why that happen to. The Britts remember cut out that little country from who? And they thought they would take it back. Wrong he for got the game is not played that way. Once something is taken you dont get it back.

 

[SmashMouth]

If someone is against the war for the reason of just going against bush that is dumb. I actually began to like Bush for awhile because I think he is a good person, I like most of his plans for the country, just don't agree that this should be his only focus. and it has been. It is like he has tunnelvision.

As long as there is a party system there will be party politics. Clinton had alot of good ideas that were stopped cold just because of what party he was,

Same happened to Bush senior. to a lesser extent.

At least the fools who will run against junior are all on his side on the war with saddam. If one of them took the other side he'd probably have a little competition.

 

[AR182]

Howard Dean(I think that's his name) is very outspoken against the war. Also that congressman with the crazy hairdo is also against the war. These guys have very little chance to win a national election for president.

 

[PRO190]

I agree with you 100% Smash on starting first with 1)shut the borders 2)getting Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc to Fess up and assist on stopping the covert aiding of terrorism 3)Rooting out all the fanatical muslim bastid sleepers like Prof al sameed(or whatever the hell his real name is)and MAKING him an EXAMPLE of what you face if you fk with us!!!

The reason I see the US starting with Iraq is it is TANGIBLE, it's not like chasing Bin Laden and playing hide and seek with the rest of these Nutcases::Have to start somewhere and starting with a Decisive Victory will help the Adm in persuading people for their backing more unsavory battles::