Let me tell you.....

[gardenweasel]

just let me see louisville vs utah.....sit me down in my massage-o-lounger with a beer and my abacus....

i`ll be happy as a clam....

the national championship will be a bone of contention until they institute a playoff...

and honestly...even then some won`t buy it...

 

[Scott4USC]

USC beat 2 BCS Bowl teams. USC played a tougher SOS than OU and AU. Enough said for USC's argument.

OU played a much tougher SOS than AU. OU played and beat 2 ranked opponents on the road back to back and 1 at neutral site. OU deserves it more than AU. Enough said.

AU beat Tenn. WHO CARES? TN struggled against Vandy and Kentucky and lost to ND @ND who USC beat 41-10. Why is TN considered a great win? They are not a great team. Then you have AU beating LSU by 1pt @AU. Why is LSU considered a great team? LOOK at the teams LSU beat all year and look at how they beat some of those teams. Then look at home/away games and wins/losses. Why are you so impressed with LSU? Then you factor in AU's horrible SOS and horrible OOC schedule. Sorry, but they deserve to be ranked #3. You can't make an argument for AU to be ranked ahead of USC or OU.

 

[Phenom]

there are going to be some shitty bowl games, keep that in mind in the future, what a joke the BCS is no matter who you root for!

 

[gman2]

scott:

are you ever going to acknowledge the fact that usc struggled in 8 of their 12 games this year? you talk a lot of shit about oklahoma and auburn, but usc is the only undefeated team that has been consistently inconsistent. they put a solid 40:00 together just 4 out of 12 games, and yet theyre somehow a runaway #1 to you?

 

[Scott4USC]

gman2

USC beat 2 BCS Bowl opponents (hopefully 3 with OU ) and USC has played a tougher SOS than OU and AU. OU has played a slightly worse SOS than USC and AU has played HORRIBLE SOS.

Therefore, there is no argument to put AU ahead of USC or even OU. If you played the toughest SOS out of OU and AU and beat 2 BCS bowl opponents, you deserve your #1 ranking. Don't you think? Its not like USC needed LUCK to win any of their games. USC also played on the road unlike OU and AU.

I wouldn't care if AU beat every opponent by 40pts and shut out most of them.

 

[gman2]

scott:

gotta essentially repost what i said earlier:

based on your criteria and SOS -- absolutely, youre right. no way can auburn jump usc or get into the #2 spot.

however, based on what has taken place on the field in the last month or two, theres no way usc should be ahead of auburn.

im NOT debating who is better. because usc is better than auburn and would beat them. but if youre talking about rankings based on whats taken place on the field -- usc simply cant be ahead of auburn.

 

[waymac]

Scott are you sure they beat 2 BCS teams?? Texas might jump Cal

 

[Sun Tzu]

How did USC beat 2 BCS teams - Va tech is it, as it looks like Cal wont be there?

As for SOS, Scott you are awfully selective. There are several formulas, such as Jerry Palm that rank OU's SOS higher than USC's. You picking Sagarin is the greatest absurdity of all. Maybe you can get the Seattle Ttmes back in the BCS and Cal can play Arizona State for the right to play USC for the title.

And USC didnt need luck? What were those stats in the Call game? How about todays bogus 10 point swing, or the bogus pass intereference call against Va Tech? Dont get me wrong, USC is a great team, but your bias is really showing, which is pretty silly considering your team is in.

 

[Scott4USC]

Well if CAL does not get in (which prob. will happen) then technically USC did not beat 2 BCS bowl teams. Doesn't change my argument.

If you play a SOS ranked #72 which AU had today, and they beat every opponent by 30pts, and you have USC who played a SOS ranked #10 in the country and lets say they beat every opponent by 10pts. Who should go? Just based on that info?

AU based on stats and on field production prob. has looked more impressive than USC and OU. However, an intelligent CFB fan looks past that. Obviously the computer polls, AP poll, and Coaches poll have. I certainly do. I hold teams accountable who they played, where they played, and how they won/lost.

USC has NOT been dominant in every game and USC has had some close games. If USC played a weak schedule, then yes, I would put AU ahead of USC. Who the hell bases their rankings of teams on pure stats and how you win? Don't you factor on who you play? Where you play?

That is why NOBODY can make a strong argument why Auburn should be ahead of USC or OU. You can make an argument how unfortunate it is for a team to go undefeated in a BCS conf. and not play in the BCS title game. That is an argument for a playoff system but not for AU being ranked ahead of USC or OU.

If AU played @V-Tech, @BYU, CSU, and ND, and won all 4, they would have a top 10 SOS just like USC. AU would be playing in the Orange Bowl. What is keeping AU out is not necessarily the ap/coaches polls. It is the computer polls who factor in SOS. AU is clear cut #3 in computer polls. If AU played tough OOC, they be clear cut #1 or #2 in computer polls and prob. get more ap/coaches votes.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Every computer poll has OU number 1. Are they right or not, or just on the things you like?

By the way, that I can find, only Sagarin has USC's schedule ranked as high as 10. Palm is the next closest at 20. Much high than Auburn's of course, but your selective bias shows again.

Fact is that you can debate schedule all you want but Auburn would be undefeated with USC's schedule, and I imagine USC and OU would also be undefeated if schedules were swapped (although i could see auburn losing to texas on a neutral field but wouldnt bet on it). Please spare me some argument that BYU, Colo State and Notre Dame are quality wins. Tell me what Top 15 team (other than michigan!) wouldnt beat all of them like a drum.

PAS Since SOS is so important to you, you of course think Texas should be in the Rose Bowl over Cal dont you? APalm Texas SOS 11, Cal 32, which is consistent with everyone but Sagarin, who somehow has Cal 13 and Texas 14, with Cal obviously dropping after So Miss is factored in.

 

[Scott4USC]

Sun Tzu

I know the computers have OU #1 but you need to check how the other computer polls calculate SOS. Some do it solely on wins/losses of their opponents which is BS and obviously flawed. A win over crap 1a team who has 8 wins in $hitty conf. will be rated tougher vs a team from BCS conf. who has 7 wins. That is just an example. Some don't disinguish home/away games. Some calculate 1aa teams the same as 1a teams. Sagarin calculates his the fairest and most logical way. On his site he explains how.

USC SOS #10 and AU SOS #72 is HUGE GAP. USC SOS vs OU SOS is not a big gap and can be debated. Same with CAL/Texas. Sagarin had CAL #13 SOS Texas #14. My personal opinion is CAL would beat Texas any day of the week. CAL lost to the current #1 team in the country on the road by 6pts and Texas lost to the #2 current team in the county by 13pts and couldn't score on neutral site. CAL has been a lot more impressive than Texas all year long if you look how both teams played. Just my opinion.

You might be right that AU would be undefeated with USC's schedule or OU's. That is not a valid argument to place AU ahead of USC or OU.

I'll say it again, TAKE A LOOK AT HOW OTHER COMPUTER POLLS CALCULATE SOS and tell me if you agree with it. Sagarin explains his and it is very logical.

 

[Sun Tzu]

I have watched these computers forever and Sagarin is worthless. He makes it sound logical, but if you look at the results it never is. I frankly think all the computers are worthless, but find it hilarious that you have conveniently signed off on the one you like. Of course he didnt have your team number 1 last year at the end of the season so I am sure you are not claiming a national championship.

His basketball is worse than football. As for Cal, they just eeked out a win against a team that lost by 30+ at home to Cincinnati. They eeked out a home win against Oregon for christ's sake thanks to a missed extra point and a dropped pass. And you just got through telling us we had to ignore how teams looked with Auburn but that is the criteria to support Cal -cause they throttled a bunch of teams thta arent going to bowl games? But at least you are consistent, you will twist anything and pick and choose any fact to support the Pac 10.

 

[Sun Tzu]

One other note on Sagarin - he is the ONLY one of the BCS computer goes who refuses to divulge his formula to anyone, including the BCS. He admits to changing it evey year too. He could get away with posting any ranking he wanted and no one would know or be able to do anything about it. That year that KState was unbeaten and then lost to Texas AM in the Big 12 title game, he still had KState #1 the next week.

In any event 11 games with 117 teams is nowhere near a large enough sample to conclude anything with a computer program. And they all have the programmer's biases. Anyone following this stuff knows Sagarin's football tends to overrate West Coast teams, not quite like Seattle Times, while others do so for the SEC and so on. When your starting point is skewed it all is. Sagarin has the same issues, but worse in college hoops, as his ratings on day 1 always somehow start with Duke at #1 after their first win. How does the computer know that Duke beating say Syaracuse in the first game is more worthy than Prarie View beating Southern, and so on. So bottom line of my rambling is the computers are a joke, and to place any real meaning in any of them, much less trying to single one out is absurd.

 

[Scott4USC]

Sun Tzu

If the computers could determine winners then you could make fortune off them. Computers are just an unbiased source used to rank teams and determine SOS. I prefer Sagarin and agree with how he does it. I explained why I disagree with the others.

I said you could make an argument for Texas to go and not CAL. I think CAL should go. You bring up tonights close win against S. Miss. Well you do know CAL travelled across country to play this game, right? Didn;t CAL have over 500 yards and S. Miss under 300 yards?Texas beating Kansas was a lot more fortunate than CAL beating S. Miss. Cal had the game won, Texas needed some BIG PLAYS at CRUCIAL moments. They made them, congrats to Texas. If Cal played Texas and I got CAL PK, I would seriously think about dumping my account on CAL. I am sorry, I am not impressed by Texas. If Texas had a passing attack, then that would change my mind.

In any event 11 games with 117 teams is nowhere near a large enough sample to conclude anything with a computer program.

I agree but it is something. Plus, you don't need any computer polls to know AU has played weaker schedule than USC or OU. It is nice to see the SEC scheduling exposed. Something I been preaching on this site. Guess all my arguments over the summer are proving to be correct.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Scott wake up. Computers are not unbiased. that is my entire point. if you really believe that, I have some property to sell you. Let me ask you this to ponder as I go to bed ....if they aren't biased, why dont thye all have the same exact rankings? Have you ever met a completely unbiased human being? Ever seen a computer not programmed by a human being?

As for Sagarin, if you believe all of that you are a hypocrit, as the way you touted USC last year was not supported by his rankings. You cant try and make a point like that when you only pick and choose the results you like.

As for SEC scheduling, you are going too far. Auburn's non-conference schedule was a joke, as is almost everyone's. The difficulty of an SEC
conference schedule cannot be challenged with a straight face Unlike you I dont distinguish a win over Colorado State from one over LA-LA whoever - crap is crap and a gimme is a gimme. You only had VT becasue you were picked for a kickoff game - nobody asked Auburn or texas for that matter to play in one. Non conference you have Va Tech on Auburn. Conference you have Cal, you would try and argue Arizona State, they have Georgia LSU and Tenn twice. Tenn isnt any great shakes, but they would finish no worse than third in the pac 10. Anyone can debate the merits of those respective wins and fairly so, but those are the games that matter.

PS What exactly was Cal's quality win that has you so impressed? I cant seem to find one, unless you mean that Arizona State team that lost to Arizona.

PSS Go check the stats of the Texas-Kansas game Texas had 581 yards.

 

[CHARLESMANSON]

Read all this bullshit and in all fairness I'm with Scott on this one, and no I'm not an SC fan. I'm an SEC guy. I watched a lot of Cals games this year and let me tell you, they were for REAL! Huge talent on that squad. If anyone is sounding biased it's you Sun...no offense.

 

[CHARLESMANSON]

If USC or OU played Auburn's schedule, they'd be undefeated too. Both teams would beat Auburn as well as Louisville imo. Auburn's D is vulnerable. USC and OU's is solid.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Hmm Scott touts the computers, every one of which has Texas over Cal. I did go to Texas, which means I dont want a BCS game becasue that means we will never get rid of Mack Brown, I sure as hell dont root for Ou or the AM of Alabama. I grew up idolizing Anthony Davis. Somehow as a slow white guy I dreamed of running student body right and kicking the shit out of Notre Dame. I have no anti-USC bias, I just call em like I see em.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Auburn's D is vulnerable based on what, this one game? They hadnt even given up a rushing td until tonight (or was it 1?) Of course they did give up a whopping 297 yards tonight, with an impressive 69 of those passing. Geez, they gave up 2 big runs and nothing else. Didnt they lead the nation in scoring defense? USC let pitiful Stanford score 28 in a half, Cal moved the ball at will on them. Ou gave up 35 to Okie State and AM. They are all vulnerable.