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maverick2112

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So much for all the pre campaign talk

Democrats vow to continue funding Iraq war
By David Walsh
12 December 2006
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Following the release of the Iraq Study Group?s report last week, leading Congressional Democrats made clear they intend to continue funding the disastrous war in Iraq to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.

According to a recent AP-Ipsos poll, a record 71 percent of the US population disapprove of George W. Bush?s handling of the Iraq war, 60 percent favor withdrawal of US forces in 2007 (immediate withdrawal was not offered as an option) and only 9 percent believe in an American victory. Yet the Democrats, brought to power in both houses of Congress largely as the result of this antiwar sentiment, have pledged to keep granting Bush?s demands for more money for the interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

As Tom Curry of MSNBC commented bluntly, ?Incoming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi had a message Tuesday for voters who elected a Democratic Congress last month hoping it would force President Bush to bring US troops home from Iraq. ?We will not cut off funding for the troops,? Pelosi said. ?Absolutely not,? she said.?

Pelosi made the emphatic comment in response to a question from a reporter who asked her if the Democrats in Congress would vote to end funding for the war if Bush refused to change course in Iraq.

She went on, ?Let me remove all doubt in anyone?s mind; as long as our troops are in harm?s way, Democrats will be there to support them, but ... we will have oversight over that funding.?

The new Democratic majority leader, Steny Hoyer of Maryland, declared, ?None of us want to fail; none of us want to see Iraq as a failure.?

Incoming Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada has already signaled his willingness to go along with Bush?s next massive supplemental-budget request, expected to amount to $160 billion. ?We?ll see if there?s any fluff in it and make sure there?s no pet projects,? he said recently. ?But if it?s legitimate, I think we?ll have to go along with it.?

Having acknowledged their surrender to Bush over the funding, the various Democratic leaders in Congress claimed that their capitulation came with a price. Pelosi asserted that ?the days of the rubber stamp are over.? And Hoyer argued that ?There may well be attached to this $160 billion various parameters that the Congress expects to be met.?

Rep. Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, organizer of the Democratic campaign to win back the House in the recent election, claimed the next war spending bill would be ?the turning point for a new direction.? According to Curry of MSNBC, Emanuel ?said the bill will impose conditions which Bush will be forced to accept if he wants the money, such as a commission to investigate funds unaccounted for or allegedly wasted in Iraq.

?To voters who?d be disappointed because they thought the new Congress would bring the troops home from Iraq, Emanuel gave a tentative answer: ?From now on we are beginning to figure those questions out in the proper way.??

Even the Democrats? vague threats to place future conditions on Bush were met with skepticism.

Thomas Donnelly, a defense policy expert with the Center for Strategic and International Studies, told the press, ?They could say, ?We?re not going to pay the bills for a force larger than X size,? or ?You can?t have this money unless you start withdrawing troops from Iraq.? [But] I think they haven?t got the votes or the nerve.?

In reality, the Democratic Party has been the Bush administration?s accomplice in the war since its leadership voted for the October 11, 2002, resolution authorizing an attack on Iraq. The Democrats supported the colonial-style war then, and they support it now, with whatever qualms and tactical disagreements.

Reid, Pelosi and their colleagues have now excluded the two possible constitutional means of ending the war in Iraq: impeachment of Bush or the cutting off of funds for the war.

Hoyer has even ruled out a resolution encouraging Bush to adopt the Baker-Hamilton recommendations ?at least for now? and has indicated that he does not anticipate that subpoenas will be issued to the administration to determine what went wrong in Iraq.

A comment last week in Roll Call, the Washington insiders? newspaper, underlined the farcical character of the Democrats? opposition to Bush. After noting that Democrats ?privately acknowledge that they will be careful not to go too far in embracing the [Baker-Hamilton] study,? because ?they want to make sure that the report ... doesn?t provide cover for the Bush administration over its policies,? Roll Call went on to point to ?One potential complication for Democrats: Incoming House Intelligence Committee chair Silvestre Reyes (D) supports increasing US troop levels.? That is a ?complication,? that one of your leading representatives openly supports an escalation in the death and destruction.

One element within the Democratic Party, more sensitive to popular sentiment, postures as an antiwar opposition. Rep. Jim McGovern of Massachusetts has introduced a bill that would cut off most spending for the war, but leave funds for the ?safe and orderly? withdrawal of troops, economic recovery and international peacekeeping. McGovern?s bill has 18 co-sponsors and no chance of getting on the House floor for a vote.

Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2004, has proposed that the Democrats vote against the Iraq war supplemental bill when it comes up for their approval next year. He told Curry of MSNBC, ?If new members came in here on the expectation that they?re going to help end the war, and then they vote to appropriate $130 billion, they might find difficulty going back home and explaining that. You can?t simultaneously say you oppose the war and then vote to fund it.?

In a memo addressed to other Democratic members of Congress, Kucinich said, ?The voters will not forget who let them down? if Congress votes to keep funding the war.

Kucinich has no support at this point for his proposal. Incoming House Armed Services Committee Chairman Ike Skelton of Missouri gave the stock response, ?My only real comment is you have to support the troops.? Rep. Barney Frank, Democrat of Massachusetts, dismissed Kucinich?s idea as ?silly.?

Kucinich points to a real dilemma for the Democrats, but his own position is fraudulent. His and Al Sharpton?s presence in the 2004 Democratic presidential nomination race, as the WSWS observed at the time, was nothing but a ?dog-and-pony show.? The pair were tolerated, even encouraged, by the party establishment to boost the credibility of the Democrats as a ?people?s party? and fuel the illusion that they represented an alternative to Bush and the Republicans.

In the end, prior to the party?s convention in 2004, Kucinich?s supporters dropped opposition to the right-wing Democratic platform and the Ohio congressman endorsed pro-war John Kerry. ?The next critical step we must take is to help elect John Kerry as the next president of the United States,? Kucinich told reporters. ?The word is unity. That is the operative word.? During his speech to the Democratic national convention, notorious for its patriotism and militarism, Kucinich called on delegates and voters to ?blaze a new path with John Kerry and John Edwards.?

Recently, when asked by an interviewer what the election of pro-war Hoyer as majority leader meant for the Democratic Party and the war in Iraq, Kucinich replied, ?We?re united behind Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer and our entire leadership team.?

One month after an election that amounted to a repudiation of the Iraq war, what are the prospects for ending it?

The report issued last week by the Iraq Study Group, the bipartisan panel headed by former secretary of state James Baker and former Democratic congressman Lee Hamilton, rejects the possibility of outright US military victory and urges a change in course, including an increased diplomatic and political effort, while maintaining indefinitely tens of thousands of American military personnel in Iraq. Baker and Hamilton speak for a section of the ruling elite fearful of the military, diplomatic and domestic political consequences of a catastrophe in Iraq.

Another faction of the political establishment, represented by Bush, Senators John McCain and Joseph Lieberman, the Wall Street Journal editorial board and others, rejects any pulling back of troops, substantial redeployment or a change in the provocative attitude toward Syria and Iran. This group is an authoritative mouthpiece for the most predatory and brutal section of the American ruling elite.

For their part, the leaders of the Democratic ?opposition,? Pelosi, Hoyer, Reid and Emanuel, brought to power by the population to bring an end to the war, criticize this or that action by the administration and the Republicans, but, at the end of the day, promise to continue support for the bloodshed and destruction.

None of these elements proposes a rapid withdrawal of US forces from Iraq, much less holding to account those responsible for this criminal war.
 

StevieD

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Something to remember. Back in Vietnam day's Goldwater was going to sent troops over there and bomb them! So we voted in LBJ, who ended up sending troops over there and bombing them.
The LBJ decided to start slowly withdrawing troops so the South Vietnamise could take care of themselves. ( Sound Familiar?) And Hubert Humphry, VP uner Johnson, was going to follow this plan. That was too slow for Nixon, who actually ran as a peace candidate the first time. Once elected his plan became the same as Johnson's!
In this disgrace of a war we find ourselves in it is not Democrats or Republicans or Liberal's or Conservatives as the Corporate Media would like you to believe. This is Neocon against America and they come in all sizes and colors.
 

The Sponge

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i wonder if they are supporting the troops with this money or supporting their political lives. I would think its the latter with these pussies. they know very well that the scummy Rove boys will use this against them and they are to stupid to explain this to the american public to defuse Rove.
With this lump sum could someone possible see where the money goes this time? It would be nice to see some receipts for a change. This is the biggest waste of money in our countries history. No universal health care but we can just piss money away on this big loser. well not all losers. Carlyle group wealth before 9/11 12 billion. Now 44 billion. Boy that is a lot of money.
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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You remind me of those at the gates when I returned from Nam-- Stevie.

You wail about civilian deaths in Darfur-Afgan and Iraq--yet they haven't reached 1/2 the total you liberal fanny packers were responsible for in Viet nam and Cambodia as result of our pull out.

Did you ever consider why after elections--Iraq and Afgan showed concern and Iran and Syria were celebrating (you knew it was coming thread.

Now who do you think was celebrating and who was digging graves when you all orchestrated pull out in V.N and where was your concern for millions that were slaughtered as result?

Why is you are ALWAYS on same side as bad guys?
Did you ever fathom in your wildest dreams that if our enimies are for it-- it might not be in our best interest?

Then share with us just one example where singing Kumbaya and bribing enemy ever solved any problem let alone averted any war.

The fact is --chances of are military ever losing any war is remote if at all possible--only people like you can lose wars Stevie.--and as UBL and others terrorist stated many times--they are counting on YOU.
Fortunately for us there are many that don't share your attitude and mabe you could do some research for us in your home state--and compare # of those signing up for military to those signing up for marriage licenses--if you get my drift :)

By PAULINE JELINEK


WASHINGTON (AP) - Though Americans are increasingly pessimistic about the war in Iraq, the Pentagon said Tuesday it is having success enlisting new troops. The Navy and Air Force met their recruiting goals last month while the Army and Marine Corps exceeded theirs, the Defense Department announced.

The Army, which is bearing the brunt of the work in Iraq, did the best. It signed up 6,485 new recruits in November compared with its target of 6,150 - meaning 105 percent of its goal.

All the services turned in similar performances in October as well, meaning they so far are meeting their goals for the 2007 budget year that began Oct. 1.

"The services are starting off well," said Maj. Stewart Upton, a Pentagon spokesman.

The progress in recruiting comes as U.S. pessimism over the Iraq campaign mounts, according to a recent AP-Ipsos poll. Some 63 percent of Americans said they don't expect a stable, democratic government to be established in Iraq, up from 54 percent who felt that way in June.

Dissatisfaction with President Bush's handling of Iraq has climbed to an all-time high of 71 percent, according to the AP-Ipsos survey this month. A bipartisan commission last week released its recommendations for a new course and the president held a series of meetings this week to hear from his advisers.

According to figures released Tuesday by the Pentagon, the Navy signed up 2,887 recruits last month, or 100 percent of its goal; Marines signed up 2,095, or 104 percent of its 2,012 target and the Air Force signed up all 1,877 it was seeking.

The Army also met its goal in the 2006 budget year after missing its target in fiscal year 2005 for the first time since 1999. It added recruiters and offered recruits bonuses to help attract more to the service.

The Army has been recruiting about 80,000 people a year, setting differing monthly goals depending on the time of the year.

Though the active services are doing well, recruiting has lagged for the Army Reserve and Navy Reserve, officials said.

The Army Reserve last month signed up 1,888, or just 79 percent of its 2,376 goal and the Navy Reserve signed up 687 recruits, or just 91 percent of its 755 goal.

---
 
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StevieD

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Funny Dogs but it is you who is always on the side of the bad guys. You have to be the only living American who still thinks Vietnam was a good idea! No wonder you can't see what is wrong with Iraq because it is the same thing. No matter how long we stay as soon as we leave they will start in. But I believe this is actually worse. The refugees from Vietnam are from the most part law abing citizens. How many trained Death Squad creeps will we be ushering into the country when you finally decide enough is enough in Iraq?
 

maverick2112

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You know I respect anyone who has ever served in the military........they are the real heros but if I were to have served in VietNam and made it out ok.......from what I have learned about Vietnam I would have a hard time understanding why a bunch of old men told lie after lie and put young americans in a war that made no sense at all........After what we know about guys like Nixon, McNamera, LBJ etc etc these guys were making policy with no regard to the brave men doing the real fighting.......

It is hard to understand that most of these so called civilian deaths (in vietnam and Iraq) are caused by our agression..........we go into Iraq and create chaos (just like VN) and then we are concerned about civilian uproar.......what the f*ck do we think is going to happen when we take any any semblace of a law abiding society both economically and millitarilly.......

I would never blame any of the service men and women for anything they do as they are only following instructions but lets see how Bush and the people in power making these decisions feels about all this fighting if there kids were stationed in Iraq??
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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Stevie if you remember correctly I have never advocated going to war in VN was correct thing to do. My point has always been--after committed and making promises to the people follow through.
If your going to pull out do it when casualties are 58,000 a year not when things have come under control and your down to 1,000.
I can't speak for Iraq cause I haven't been there but can relate to media during V.N. war when they say the south did not want us there--nothing could be farther from the truth.

I see we still have those who never been either place referring to our presence creating chaos.

Evidently they were away from TV when voting process was taking place and everyone was holding up their blue finger in pride.

--again I can't speak for iraq--but can tell you in V.N. victory was a wisker away as we were doing mostly support work and the South Viets were holding well doing most of actual fighting and their deaths were at all time low as was the enemies--because the inevitable was near as the north vietnamese general Nguyen Giap acknowledged
in 1985 memoirs.
Withdawal from V.N. resulted in deaths of our troops that died prior to things coming under
control to appear to be in vain--instead of having a zone similiar to N.K/S.K. those from the south and neighboring countries were slaughtered.

The diff between N.K/S.K and N.V/SV outcomes were media and mind set of U.S. population--and the same today with media and mindset--only to greater degree.
 

maverick2112

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I see we still have those who never been either place referring to our presence creating chaos.

Evidently they were away from TV when voting process was taking place and everyone was holding up their blue finger in pride.

-

Are you trying to say that the iraqi people are better off now than they were before we got there????:shrug:

What difference in the world does it matter whether of not you have been there to determine whether chaos is taking place.........to me all you have to know is how many bodybags are arriving back to the USA with deceased soldiers. Also you have to be blind to not realize the Iraqi deaths are way under quoted in the American media.........if you look at the news from other foreign sources you will see the Iraqi deaths are higher.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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"Are you trying to say that the iraqi people are better off now than they were before we got there????"

The kurds dramatically--same for Shites away from green zone but to lesser degree. Now you might have point on bathe party and Sunni.
Appears both Kurds and Shites want us there with no time tables--however the Sunnis are right in line with liberals here-- Amazing parrellels once again--wouldn't you say?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061215/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

"While the senators were meeting with U.S. and Iraqi officials in Baghdad, Iraq's Sunni vice president, Tariq al-Hashemi, was in Washington, where he called on the Bush administration to set a timetable for withdrawal of U.S. troops. Al-Hashemi said the timetable should be "flexible" and depend on development of an Iraqi security force."

--and on the body bags--a pretty well accepted axiom--Soilders + war=deaths

---and somehow liberals have yet to comment on millions slaughtered as result of our pullout in Nam. is it you don't want to think about it--talk about it--or pretend it never happened?
 
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maverick2112

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"Are you trying to say that the iraqi people are better off now than they were before we got there????"

The kurds dramatically--same for Shites away from green zone but to lesser degree. Now you might have point on bathe party and Sunni.
Appears both Kurds and Shites want us there with no time tables--however the Sunnis are right in line with liberals here-- Amazing parrellels once again--wouldn't you say?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061215/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

"While the senators were meeting with U.S. and Iraqi officials in Baghdad, Iraq's Sunni vice president, Tariq al-Hashemi, was in Washington, where he called on the Bush administration to set a timetable for withdrawal of U.S. troops. Al-Hashemi said the timetable should be "flexible" and depend on development of an Iraqi security force."

--and on the body bags--a pretty well accepted axiom--Soilders + war=deaths

---and somehow liberals have yet to comment on millions slaughtered as result of our pullout in Nam. is it you don't want to think about it--talk about it--or pretend it never happened?

The shites were always in the bag (on our side) ever wonder why not much resistance in the south or why we invaded from the south in the first place...........

You seem to be so keen on elections.......wonder if the people of Iraq would welcome a democratic election on a vote to decide whether we should leave or stay????

Of course we know a this kind of vote would never be allowed to take place because the Iraqi citizens may just vote for us to get the F**K out of their country..........and we could'nt have that type of fair election......could we?????
 
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