looks like mccain sold the republicans down the river

[gardenweasel]

kosar...i hear people saying that congess didn`t see the intel that the pres. did....and that`s total b.s....

they saw it....they knew what he knew....right or wrong...

you`ve heard kerry`s speeches on saddam.....bill clinton`s.....

to say that congress was blind is sort of stupid....nobody rammed anything anywhere...that`s having it both ways....

and an incredible copout....

hell,more dems voted to authorize the iraq invasion than voted to remove him from kuwait.....

go figure...


"""They trusted that the president knew what he was doing."""

they don`t trust him to nominate an appeals court judgeship....lol
__________________



and on the filibuster thing...it may only last a few days....with bolton on the horizon....

 

[StevieD]

GW, Since when can't I support McCain on one subject and disagree with him on another? I don't get it? For the record I disagree with McCain or any one of any party who supported invading Iraq. I support the fillibuster and although I think it is too early to see which side this compromise favored I agree with McCain. Some of you guys are so full of hate you can't see the issues. It doesn't matter who supports what it is what they support.

 

[kosar]

kosar...i hear people saying that congess didn`t see the intel that the pres. did....and that`s total b.s....

they saw it....they knew what he knew....right or wrong...

I don't understand the point.

you`ve heard kerry`s speeches on saddam.....bill clinton`s.....

As i'm sure you remember, BobbyBlueChjip has repeatedly posted the full context of those speeches. They read MUCH differently than the sound bites that Freeze and others continually post from that chain email.

to say that congress was blind is sort of stupid....nobody rammed anything anywhere...that`s having it both ways....

I never said congress was blind. Here are the facts, that have been reliably confirmed over and over by facts. This administration (Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith etc) has been hell bent on invading Iraq since the early to mid 90's. Fact!

They had carte blanche to do wtf they wanted after 9/11. They sent Powell to the UN to try to sell this bullshit with satellite photos and all the trimmings.

Like i've said before, the best thing that ever happened in regards to W's initial agenda to take out Saddam was 9/11. And that's sick.

We ignored every inspector, who all said there was nothing there. But that wasn't really the point to begin with, was it?

And for all you clowns who still maintain that all these enormous stockpiles of chemical weapons got diverted undetected to Syria, or the classic one where the Russians swooped in and took them away? Well, I can't help you.

"""They trusted that the president knew what he was doing."""

they don`t trust him to nominate an appeals court judgeship....lol

Weak, and you know it.

and on the filibuster thing...it may only last a few days....with bolton on the horizon....

Sure. Part of the deal is that the dems still reserve the right to filibuster under 'extraordinary circumstances.'

Now, maybe i'm crazy, but nominating a guy to a very important, very high profile diplomatic job after he denounced over and over the very organization that he will be dealing with? Wouldn't you consider that 'extraordinary?'

Bolton said that the UN should be abolished. I tend to agree, but as long as it is an organization, is that really the person that you want to represent us? There is plenty of evidence that he badgered, coerced, etc his analysts to wrap the 'evidence' around the desired conclusion. Sound familiar?

It's almost as if our idiot president does this shit on purpose.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

"i'm more annoyed at mccain with the immigration bill he is trying to push with kennedy than i am with the fillibuster business"

I'll 2nd that AR.

The fillibuster stuff makes little diff as not much has changed--however I do think McCain unfortunately shot his wad in any hopes of being nominated for pres.

GW They still have em by the shorthairs--with reservation to go back to nuke deal (poor term) if they get out of line.

Tired of seeing all this blah blah blah on who won and who lost over the compromise on tv.

They can spin it anyway they want--but bottom line is they wanted up or down vote on nominees and thats what there getting while reserving nuke option--so only thing thats changed is fillibuster is busted--for now--but little doubt it will return.

Theres is + for the Dems however--while the REBS have sat back past 4 years and watched the Dems go at one another in pres campaigns--the dems are getting having few smiles watching the reb bickering through this ordeal.

if you watch em long enough and give em enough rope all politicians will piss you off at sometime.
Believe it or not the one I think has best demeanor and can't think of a time he's pissed me off yet is Lieberman. He's too nice a fellow to be a politician--

 

[ocelot]

Okay, so most people are VERY happy that the hard-core Far Right base is pissed off - that can only be a good thing.

The fact that Congress votes to give a President authorization to use force DOES NOT necessarily mean they believe he should under any circumstances. Quit trying to spread THAT manure.

Let the President take some RESPONSIBILITY for HIS DECISIONS. I'm sure if things had gone all hunky-dorry you wouldn't be giving CONGRESS one shred of credit.

Can't have it BOTH ways.

 

[kosar]

Wayne,

I agree with most of your post. I have no idea what GW is getting all frantic about. Well put. Also, what's this immigration thing with McCain/Kennedy that you and Al keep referring to? I have missed it somehow.

Ocelot,

Can you imagine? We find huge stockpiles of WMD. Would we be seeing all these quotes from democrats who would have been right about the intel? Ummmmm, of course not. The gang that couldn't shoot straight would have gobbled up 100% of the credit. As you say, the buck stops with the president, no matter the outcome.

 

[djv]

Bush never said he's done anything wrong. And that's everything. It's like Clinton saying I did not have sex with that woman. They all lie or at least stretch the truth to fit there needs. But never admit to doing a thing wrong. Hell bush thinks Iraq is a head of schedule. What schedule is he on. We won the war according to him in less then 3 months. We seem to have more dieing each day now then earlier. It's a mess Mr Bush. And you have found no way out.
Mc Cain is no fool. He knows you still need us the independents to win. As congress may find out in 2006.

 

[smurphy]

How is McCain's border policy any different than Dubya's? Is the hardcore right that hypocritical as to distinguish one from the other?

:mj07:

At least McCain never called the Minutemen "Vigilantes"! ....that I know of, could be wrong.

 

[smurphy]

you guys are underestimating just how pissed the far right is with mccain....

he is public enemy #1.....i`m serious...

people are calling talk shows and vowing to withdraw support for the party....no more donations to the party......period

particularly if mccain is the nominee...

the radicals are the hard core base...and they are livid....

Nothing like a bunch of crybaby neo-cons who would rather take their ball and go home than play by the rules and actually COMPROMISE. For cryin out loud - they act like they LOST. It was a compromise deal in which many feel the Repubs actually got the better of .

What happened to Bush's speech about "reaching out to the Dems"? ....Oh yea of course, more empty rhetoric. Shame on me for actually believing my President's words.

Can't wait for the Stem Cell veto! :cursin:

 

[ocelot]

George Bush - a real Progressive Man for the New Century.

Hates Science. We hate what we cannot understand someone once said.

 

[kosar]

Did you hear that idiot during his anti-stem cell research speech yesterday?

He was trying to say the year, '2001'.

What he actually said was, ' two-thousand the first.' WTF?

 

[dawgball]

kosar--lol--you have to provide a clip!

 

[kosar]

kosar--lol--you have to provide a clip!

I wouldn't know where to find a clip, Dawg. I'm sure it's out there on some of those rabid anti-W sites, but I don't even know where they are.

I heard/saw it with my own ears/eyes at work yesterday afternoon and so did others that work at my office. It was quite 'entertaining(?)'

Christ, this guy.

 

[kosar]

I should add that he realized his mistake(no shit) and corrected it.

 

[gardenweasel]

kosar...you are saying that the administartion LIED about the wmd issue.....

every liberal think tank...the 9/11 commission...
the bi-partisan commission,btw....that was loaded with democratic hatchetmen.......just looking to bury the administration...didn`t stumble onto proof that the administration hid info about saddam not having weapons....


you know more than all these people know?.......you know that the administration had facts that proved that saddam had no weapons....but,hid those facts from congress?.....lol


the 9/11 commission didn`t find this info...none of these thinktanks...the liberal media....no proof...

.but you have it?

all the liberals screaming that "bush lied".....but no proof....

you are saying that bush et al KNEW that there was no wmd`s there?....yet,they proceded into iraq based on a blatant lie...knowing they`d inevitably be proven wrong?....

that`s brilliant...


if this was public knowledge...not just "kosar knowledge"...how`d everybody else miss out on this besides you?

if bush LIED,and it`s public knowledge,how`d he get reelected?...

oh,that`s right...more liberal condescension...those that don`t think as you guys do are stupid hicks...


c`mon...think....don`t just say "that`s weak"....

you want it both ways....you want to totally exonerate your boys and blame it all on bush....

if there were no weapons...chemical or otherwise...everybody whiffed....

the u.n. didn`t attempt a decade and a half of inspections for fun... with saddam fighting them at every turn...kicking them out several times in the process...

everybody...including the corrupt u.n. suspected saddam....

hell,what happened to his chemical stockpiles?....that he used on his own people?...

that was fact...that he had chemical weapons....yet,they weren`t found....and if he`d come forward and admitted to destroying them,he`d certainly have wanted to have proof to show the u.n. inspectors...with all the heat he was receiving....

what happened?

they weren`t found....he never came clean as far as verification of their destruction....

did they vanish?....or maybe they are in syria...or buried deep in the desert...

the world may never know.....the world will be in the dark.....

but not kosar...

my friend...get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.

btw...this crybaby thinks the stem cell veto is wrong...


also...the filibuster...as i predicted....will continue with bolton.....

there will never be enough documents available for the democrats.....

further digging mccain`s grave as far as potential republican candidacy in 2008....

the compromise was a waste of time...a grandstand play....that backfired..

 

[kosar]

kosar...you are saying that the administartion LIED about the wmd issue.....

I guess it depnds on your definition of 'lying.' I think that it would be hard to argue that Bush dismissed any opinions (EVERY F*CKING INSPECTOR THAT HAD BEEN IN IRAQ SINCE 1991) and glommed on to wrapped around intelligence from literally ONE shady Iraqi. Look into this.

every liberal think tank...the 9/11 commission...
the bi-partisan commission,btw....that was loaded with democratic hatchetmen.......just looking to bury the administration...didn`t stumble onto proof that the administration hid info about saddam not having weapons....

Are you kidding me? It wasn't a matter of them hiding info that Saddam had no WMD. That info was always out in the open. The problem comes when you try to get people to believe that some dots on a satellite are chemical facilities, when in fact they're....well, we still don't know.

the 9/11 commission didn`t find this info...none of these thinktanks...the liberal media....no proof...

.but you have it?

all the liberals screaming that "bush lied".....but no proof....

I noticed that you avoided commenting on the British memo that blatantly stated that Bush was taking certain 'intelligence' to fulfill his mission. Bush himself did not dispute it.

you are saying that bush et al KNEW that there was no wmd`s there?....yet,they proceded into iraq based on a blatant lie...knowing they`d inevitably be proven wrong?....

that`s brilliant...

Of course not. He thought that there was a reasonable chance that we'd find something there and that if we found even a cache' of mustard gas that we supplied them in the 80's but was currently unusable, that he'd be proven 'right.' He was wrong. Bad bet.

if bush LIED,and it`s public knowledge,how`d he get reelected?...

oh,that`s right...more liberal condescension...those that don`t think as you guys do are stupid hicks...

Ha. You correctly predicted my response. It's not even arguable that he won Ohio because Rove got the anti-gay marriage amendment on the ballot. Win Ohio/won election. Lose Ohio/Lose election.

you want it both ways....you want to totally exonerate your boys and blame it all on bush....

Can you possibly be kidding? You're intelligent. You know damn well that this cadre has been gunning for Saddam since the mid-90's. This crap has nothing to do with 9/11, but that was a great excuse.

if there were no weapons...chemical or otherwise...everybody whiffed....

Talk about whiffing. Even *if* Saddam had chemical weapons, who really gives a f*ck, especially at that exact time? Seriously. We gave them to them to begin with. But more than that, Iraq had not threatened anybody since Kuwait in 1991, let alone us ever. They were contained. Period.

the u.n. didn`t attempt a decade and a half of inspections for fun... with saddam fighting them at every turn...kicking them out several times in the process...

everybody...including the corrupt u.n. suspected saddam....

Well, those inspections seemed to have worked. Our own CIA has confirmed that he had NO weapons program of any kind since 1991.

hell,what happened to his chemical stockpiles?....that he used on his own people?...

that was fact...that he had chemical weapons....yet,they weren`t found....and if he`d come forward and admitted to destroying them,he`d certainly have wanted to have proof to show the u.n. inspectors...with all the heat he was receiving....

what happened?

they weren`t found....he never came clean as far as verification of their destruction....

did they vanish?....or maybe they are in syria...or buried deep in the desert...

What happened? What happened is that he's a friggin' idiot who thought that France and Germany and Russia would stop us from coming in. I'm still trying to figure out how you prove that you destroy something. Isn't that like proving a negative?

also...the filibuster...as i predicted....will continue with bolton.....

there will never be enough documents available for the democrats.....

Documents? What are you talking about? How about the 100+ ex-employees/associates that have stepped out against Bolton as far as this appointment goes? Not to mention Colin Powell.

How could anybody actually think that Bolton is the best person for this particular job?

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Matt--the Kennedy/McCain bill

basics---per Oreilly


The Kennedy-McCain immigration bill: that is the subject of this evening's "Talking Points Memo."

It is called the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act (search ) of 2005. And here are the highlights:

? The USA would accept at least 400,000 foreign workers each year. Their visas would last three years.

? Illegal aliens already in the U.S.A., and they number more than 10 million, would have to register, pay a $2,000 fine, clear a criminal background check, and pass an English language exam. If they did that and had a job, they could stay in this country and apply for citizenship in six years.

? The act would also increase fines for employers who hire illegals and strengthen border security.

That's the gist of the proposed law.

full blow data--
http://www.mario-ramos.com/blog/archives/2005/05/the_secure_amer.html

I'm not sure about it yet as I get conflicting stories---saw one person arguing they would get medicare and medicade but that was rebuffed by another saying no--and couldn't figure out which to believe.

 

[kosar]

Thanks Wayne. I don't see what's so bad about that, if that's all there is to it. But if medicaid/medicare are involved, before they become citizens, that's a different story.

 

[ocelot]

I am ambivalent about this war myself. I don't really have a problem with preemptively eliminating a potential threat and a-hole like Saddam. I really don't care for us pouring tons of money into Iraq and wish we could have gotten some cooperation from the big boys in continental Europe but I put most of that blame on them. Where I REALLY have a problem is giving tax breaks to everyone and not pushing higher fuel efficiency standards in a time of war. WW2 Americans sacrificed a lot on the Home Front.

Here is an excerpt from one of those anti - W websites. I am afraid I cannot see any errors in it.


"...The uranium allegation (the "16 words") is famous because the fraud is so obvious. That charge, which Bush stated directly in his State of the Union speech, was based on blatantly forged documents -- one purported to be from a Niger official, to himself. The Bush Administration knew they were forged. They had been told several times that the charges were false, including by our own CIA and State Department. Bush and his top aides fought to put the words back in his speech, using weaselly phrasing -- Defense Secretary Rumsfeld has actually argued that the statement wasn't a lie because Bush didn't SAY Iraq did try to buy uranium, he just said "British intelligence HAS LEARNED that they tried to buy uranium." Once again, Bush imitates Clinton, arguing about what the meaning of "is" is.

Before considering each of the dozens of individual deceptions, lies and misleading statements that Bush and his aides used to push the US into war in Iraq, let's not lose track of the big picture. The Bush administration justified war, immediate war, because alleged weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Those weapons do not exist. They have not existed for years. The Bush adminstration knew this, because a top Iraqi defector told us this over 4 years ago, but they kept that information secret. And weapons of mass destruction were not the reason the Bush administration wanted to invade Iraq. Top officials have even admitted this, saying flat out that they had other reasons but chose WMD because it was the most effective argument politicially.

There were many other deceptive charges by the Bush administration -- about unmanned drones, orders to use chemical weapons, aluminum tubes, links between Iraq and Al Qaeda, etc. But don't forget the big picture. The Bush administration knew that there were no WMD in Iraq. They deliberately and consistently lied to the American people about this, to justify war in Iraq..."

 

[kosar]

The Bush administration knew that there were no WMD in Iraq. They deliberately and consistently lied to the American people about this, to justify war in Iraq..."

I don't think that they *knew* there was nothing there, but they surely ignored any sort of dissenting views and very strongly pushed questionable intel. They also pushed *for* 'intel' that would bolster their case to go to war.