'Loose Change'; The truth about 911?

[alb]

Has anyone seen the ivestigative report called 'Loose Change'?
Hard to argue with forensic evidence, survivor/expert testimony (i.e on the scene firefighters), film footage and live reporting. I think this will all come out soon.....or at least when Bush is gone.

Someone's got sum splainin to do!!

 

[alb]

I had to bump this.

With all the educated forum users, I can't believe nobody has a comment on what is probably those most controversial investigation/conspiracy of the last 100 years.

 

[MrChristo]

I've seen version 2.0...not sure how different/updated it is...

Mate, I'm just not sure how many people here (or anywhere else!) wold be willing to come out and say a Western government would effectively murder 5000+ of their people! :nono:

fwiw...The first 10 minutes is by far he most interesting, imo.
The fact the the government have, at least, planned this sort of thing before, should be enough to put at least a small amount of doubt in people's minds.

1) I've never believed the Pentagon got hit by a commuter plane...(that's not to say one little bit that I think the gov did it!)...
...none of that bit makes any sense. The secrecy, the physical evidence...

...having said that, I'm not sure how the author adds 2+2 and somehow gets 6.5!!
(ie. Air-traffic controllers were quoted as saying it moved like a military aircraft...the only piece of physical evidence found was [allegedly] determined to be an engine from an old fighter plane....yet it was a cruise missile!! :shrug: :shrug: )

2) The 'evidence' of explosions in the WTC is (imo of course!) nothing but pressure points blowing out as the weight crushes down.
It was calculated as being "close to freefall"...in fact it was 2-3 seconds longer than that (20-30%), so it WASN'T is free fall at all.
People claimed to hear/feel explosions in the stair wells...easily enough accounted by 1000's of tonnes of fuels spilling down...
...and also the 6 fire-fighters/civies who survived in the stair well at about the 6th floor would suggest nothing exploded in that one!

3) The circumstancial 'evidence' of the plane landing in Cleveland is interesting for sure...but this is the one where I have REAL problems believing "they" could simply make 100+ people "disappear".

Again, I have a bit of a problem with the author here...just because the coroner is quoted in 4-5 different newspapers, doesn't make it 4-5 different quotes! :mj07:
I think the real conspiracy (if that could possibly be a correct term!) should be that it got shot down.
I do agree that the lack of wreckage just isn't right at all. Something just doesn't add up...but as I said, I just can't believe x-amount of poeple were simply (presumably) executed??

Um...what else?...Think that's about all I've got!

 

[smurphy]

i'm sure that whatever bush tells us is the truth. he is the president and he was president when 9-11 happened. nevermind that his cronies are wealthy 500x over because of 9-11. i'm sure that whatever he says is 100% the truth. god bless dubya. god bless the republican chickenhawk mutha fuckas that have fuked everything up in the country that i love to my grave.

 

[alb]

The phone calls from the planes were so bogus. One was monotone while people were stabbed around her. The other.....an impossible cell call from that altitude.....can be done now but not then.....and telling your mother your full name....bogus.
There is no way that planes were involved in the pentagon or Pennsylvania. Reporters were on the sites and saw no planes. The gov't will not release the surveillance tapes. And it is on record by the mayor and Cleveland airport that one of the so-called crashed planes was sitting in the runway evacuated . But I was wondering the same as you Christo about the passengers that were evacuated from the plane in Cleveland. I don't think they disappeared but why were none interviewed?

Lots more...including how top officials got rich off this and how Brother Bush's security company removed the bomb-sniffing dogs from the Trade Centre on the 10th....oh and how only $200 million of gold was recoverd out of $150 billion +. How about the third building down the street that imploded perfectly (presumably from explosion vibrations) yet no other building was affected.....the building that held the records of all the on-going wall street trading investigations.

My concern was always that an official investigation seemed lame and short lived. I never heard rebuttal for all the witness testimony and actual physical evidence that contradicts the official theories.

I think it will all come out soon.

 

[marine]

holy crap dude,

I'm going to send you some tin foil to make a hat to hear.

You're joking and typing that tongue in cheek right?

 

[alb]

Uh...joking about what?

 

[MrChristo]

holy crap dude,

I'm going to send you some tin foil to make a hat to hear.

You're joking and typing that tongue in cheek right?

No offense, marine, but I assume you haven't actually seen it?

It is very interesting...compelling even to a point...stuff.
I just don't like the way people simply dismiss stuff like this as rubbish (hey, which it well might be!!) but never take the time to watch anything that may be looking from the other direction.


One was monotone while people were stabbed around her. The other.....an impossible cell call from that altitude.....can be done now but not then.....and telling your mother your full name....bogus.

Yeah, air-hostesses are very well trained. I'm not entirely surprised they can keep calm in an emergency...
...the impossible call? I suspected as much too...but a mate of mine says he has sent and received texts while flying from Brisbane to Melbourne...similar altitudes, and I'd even say that there'd be more 'towers' and better mobile coverage in the US than here, so I'm not so sure it's as impossible as they like to make out.

The "full name" call definately is the bogus one!!...but at the same time, we don't get to hear it. :shrug:

And it is on record by the mayor and Cleveland airport that one of the so-called crashed planes was sitting in the runway evacuated .

That I didn't know! Interesting indeed.

But I was wondering the same as you Christo about the passengers that were evacuated from the plane in Cleveland. I don't think they disappeared but why were none interviewed?

Well, surely they've 'disappeared'. I mean these people are supposed to be dead right? How would it look if Betty Ong (was that her name?) suddenly boarded a plane you were on?
People must have lived/worked with these people on the plane. Surely they haven't just carried on as normal and told everyone to be hush-hush about it?


How about the third building down the street that imploded perfectly (presumably from explosion vibrations) yet no other building was affected.....the building that held the records of all the on-going wall street trading investigations.

They claim it was hit by debris from the falling towers...but yeah, looks dodgy as hell to me too.
Someone has posted the video of it falling here before...the perfect implosion, even tho it collapses due to one "hole" in the front apparently...


The more interesting bits to me are the real truth that the gov. is simply denying/hiding...
...they DID find 3 of the 4 black boxes, yet nothing (to my knowledge) has ever been released....in fact, I believe they said they were destroyed in the heat??...
...lol...but they want us to believe that one of the hijakers passport was found in take on the street!! LMAO!!! Who comes up with this stuff, indeed! :SIB

They ARE still retrieving information off HDD's found at the area. They WERE millions and millions of $'s on put options for just about every company involved...where does the trail lead??
Clearly no gov. agency will ever say...but I seem to remember that a private German company is also looking into the physical computer info??...could be wrong about that tho...either way, still nothing heard obviously...

...and don't hold your breath dude!

 

[SixFive]

alb, stick around the general forum, usually around 1 am or so (when he's tanked), and poster "beertime" will be happy to post to you about this stuff. He rants on this about every other week. Just do a search, and you can find some more links for the conspiracy stuff. There's several others around here who believe too. I'm not one of them, but you're not alone.

 

[pug]

Hey Alb, I'm with you on this. I definitely think there is reason to believe the U.S. government was behind 9/11. I think if anyone takes an objective look at the evidence they will find it hard to dispute. Loose change is not the only good video to view on this subject. There are 9/11 videos and evidence all over the web. The problem is that most of the country is unwilling to even consider that their government could mass murder their citizens. Thus, they won't even look at the evidence and will criticize you for even suggesting that the government could be behind this. You are more likely to get laughed at when bringing up this subject then to find anyone that will take you seriously. The problem is that the ones behind 9/11 are running the government and can cover up whatever it takes to make sure the truth doesn't come out. Therefore, the evidence we have will likely remain only circumstantial. In my opinion, 9/11 will go down in history much like the Kennedy assassination and we will never know the complete truth.

 

[MrChristo]

The more interesting bits to me are the real truth that the gov. is simply denying/hiding...

...sorry, I got a bit sidetracked earlier...

...a couple more things that seem to be true that make little to no sense...

...on the day of 9/11, none of the 3 actual planes that were hijacked were schedules to fly. Not one!! Now, admittedly I don't know how regular this happens to airlines, but mighty big coincidence either way...
...and (I could be slightly wrong here) I believe that at least 2, if not all 3 actual planes are still listed as being active, registered and in service on official Boeing records!!
Why??

AND...it has been reported in several news agencies around the world...ok, some not the greatest source I wouldn't think, but I do belive the BBC has done some investigating and reporting...that upto 7 of the 12 "hijackers" named by the US government are still very much alive and well. :shrug:

 

[smurphy]

9-11 was an incredibly great thing for this administration - I mean it was the best thing that could possibly have rolled around for Dubya and co.

That said, I just can't get behind these conspiracies. There are coincidences and some questionable things. Probably the govt. hasn't been completely straight up with us on some of the events.

BUT if our leaders actually planned and manipulated 9-11, then what is point of anything? That's such a diabolic notion - I guess it's too much for me to even consider. I don't think it went down like that. It was a terrible day created by an ENEMY. It served Bush well, but I can't even fathom the idea that he was behind it.

 

[blgstocks]

Like 6-5 said, alb - do a search for it, there are multiple posts on this video, and you should be able to find articles that support it and are against it if you are interested.

 

[ImFeklhr]

holy crap dude,

I'm going to send you some tin foil to make a hat to hear.

You're joking and typing that tongue in cheek right?

Same thing you said about any possible problems with electronic voting machines too eh?


ALB: I was blown away by that video, and for a couple days was a true believer, but there is so many counter-points that have come out showing how bogus LooseChange is, in some of what it says. It raises excellent questions, some of which the government should have addressed from the beginning, rather than let a conspiriacy theory formulate.

But, the government probably LOVES people getting curioius about outlandish theories about 9/11 because it distracts people from asking tough questions of current policy.

The pentagon flight still makes me wonder. And WTC-7 too. Natural human curiosity.

 

[BetterUp]

holy crap dude,

I'm going to send you some tin foil to make a hat to hear.

You're joking and typing that tongue in cheek right?

Somebody has inhaled too much of that Kenosha air.

 

[peddler1]

I have seen this and others like it before. It is about like anything else someone is trying to sell. It has some truth, some stretching of the truth, and some complete false hoods.

If a person really wants to think watch this and then read the findings of the 9/11 commission.
As with anything you have to read between the lines and use common sense.

 

[alb]

If I had to state my opinion, I would say the gov't knew what was going to happen to the towers......and let it.....exploiting it at the same time on many levels. That's why the gold was removed (except for the one abandoned truck on which they found the $200m), the stock market saw massive moves in Boeing/American Airlines, intense evacuation drills were held for 2 weeks prior, the buildings were drastically overinsured specifically for a plane crash just before. Don't forget the security desk clerk that said the bomb dogs were removed and all the witnesses, police and firemen that heard bombs and smelt gunpowder. Forensic experts and past building fires suggests the heat could not reach a point where the fire-retardent beams would melt and building collapse. The 3rd building that held all the wall street ivestigation records was a perfectly planned demoliton. The other two sites were not plane crashes as every reporter that showed up and video evidence would suggest.

I thought the Laden tape was a joke....looks nothing like all the FBI photo's and doesn't fit their profile (writing with the wrong hand...wearing a ring that is supposedly against their belief). He's guilty of terrorism, but this prick would be boasting
not denying the allegations. Side note; I like how this moron critizices the 'capitalist oppressors'...meanwhile he is wealthy in an oppressed country whith starving people.

Since the days where everything was in black and white, creating a common enemy has always been a military and political strategy. I remember a 50 year old outer limits episode using this as a plot. Reagan used 'alien threat' as a reason for global alliance. And of course there are actual documents that have supported this theory in past critical events.

The terrorist threats and dictatorship murderers are real but you still have bleeding hearts saying 'no war'....leave Afghanistan/Iraq alone. This was a perfect scenario to gain public backing to get rid of these real threats. It worked. Can you imagine how much more anti-gov't protesting there would be if current events were happening without the 9/11 kickstart.

On that note;
I am not a war enthusiast and feel both pride and sympathy for the soldiers out there but they are saving the world. If these assholes are not taken on now....there will be no chance later. These cowards will shoot from behind women and children......knowing that we will not fire back. They would drop a nuke(s) on the Western World in a heartbeat with no conscience whatsoever. Yet we don't (although sometimes I wonder). A place where freedom is limited leaves no room for free thinking, questions and accountability, or change. This is not an attack on the Muslim religion becuase the real teachings are of peace and harmony. The problem is when you do not have the freedom to think your own thoughts, you end up with a few brainwashed extremists and gunbearing leaders that have no problem using the religion as a justification for murder of all who are different. It's happend in the past by other religions (Inquisition, Christian Crusades, Ireland...etc) but apparently a lot of the world still hasn't learned from the past.

Hey Christo; I'm still bothered about the thing in Cleveland. The claims say two planes actually evacuated there for bomb scares. #93 was one of them. So where are the 40 people....was the passenger manifest real or made up? Huge part of the puzzle.


Also from aviation week (July/2004);

"Qualcomm and American Airlines are exploring [July 2004] ways for passengers to use commercial cell phones inflight for air-to-ground communication. In a recent 2-hr. proof-of-concept flight, representatives from government and the media used commercial Code Division Multiple Access (CDMA) third-generation cell phones to place and receive calls and text messages from friends on the ground.

No way did a call happen from 30,000 ft in 2001.

 

[kosar]

No way did a call happen from 30,000 ft in 2001.

So I guess the family members who claim to have received the calls are 'plants' also. They were in on the fun?

 

[alb]

Kosar;
In 2001 a voice could easliy be replicated (apparently a 10 minute sample is all that is needed) but at the time cell calls from too high an altitude could not be made. Obviously, a lower altitude increases the chance. Calls in questions are dubious and sounded more like statements than coversations. I.E. the son that told his mother his full name and he wasn't replying to her....he was just talking.

How about this;
'There is no public evidence of recordings of any of the conversations, despite the extended length of some of them, except for the alleged calls from Flight 11 attendants Madeline Sweeney and Betty Ong'

Madeline Sweeney, who was the "anchor" for Flight 11, says: "I see, buildings, water, ... Oh my God!", immediately before the crash, as though she, a Massachusetts-based flight attendant of 12 years, had never seen the Manhattan skyline before. Supposedly she was continuously monitoring the view out a window.

Eliminate the impossible and what is possible remains. A fake call would be an easy part of the whole picture.

 

[gardenweasel]

i can see the trailer now...
"SEE THE MOVIE - MEET THE PRODUCERS - RECIEVE A COUPON FOR HALF OFF RISPERDAL REFILLS "......lol


AAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!:mj16: :dizzy:

hey alb...i have a device that turns lead into gold......i`d like to sell it to you.....how`s `bout it?...

somebody get me my pepto bismol...and my polo mallet...


look...we`ve been down this road before in here...and it`s a bit old...i don`t think you`re purposefully stupid or malevolent.....

lead paint chips?..to much amyl nitrate?.....power lines to close to the house?...maybe...but that`s not your fault....


i`ll try and be kind and rationalize all this garbage...many sheltered people had their worldview shattered on 9/11 and cannot come to grips with reality, so they shelter themselves in this insane little conspiracy world to help comfort themselves.....like the ones that said that a bush sponsored demolition caused katrina.....they're either radical muslims, students, nucking futs, or a combination of all three.....

so,we try not to be to hard on good people who are a little gullible..

and btw...i guess you missed the part where bin laden copped to it?....

and moussaui?..

.http://beta.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050422/ap_on_re_us/moussaoui

no offense intended...sincerely...but i think penn and teller said it best(at least penn did)....:" to make or appreciate this movie requires a special kind of asshole."

i tried not to respond...i swear....