Maybe chivalry is dead
- Thread starter Nick Douglas
- Start date
Well, I see it in a different light, I guess.
If a gal were to ask me to a ball game, I would have to assume she already has the tickets purchased, or the intent to do so. What the hell! That would be a nice racket for women out there.
Mary Jane Rottencrotch: "I'm board tonight. Maybe I can con some sucker into taking me to the game. I'll call "Joe".
"Joe? You want to go to the game tonight?"
Clueless Joe Jackson: "Sure! Let me grab my ATM card, and I'll be right over!"
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What is this shit? I aint no soup kitchen for welfare moms! Christ, I might as well go by myself, or with a buddy, and save some coin!
I guess if she invites you over to watch some TV, you are obligated to pay her cable bill too?
MJR: "Joe? Would you like to come over for dinner tonight?"
CJJ: "Absolutely!"
MJR: "Good. Stop by the market and grab some steaks. I like a nice Porterhouse. Get us some nice wine, too. When you get here, the grill is out back........See you around 6?"
Ladies.......if you want the royal treatment, wait for the guy to ask you out instead.
If a gal were to ask me to a ball game, I would have to assume she already has the tickets purchased, or the intent to do so. What the hell! That would be a nice racket for women out there.
Mary Jane Rottencrotch: "I'm board tonight. Maybe I can con some sucker into taking me to the game. I'll call "Joe".
"Joe? You want to go to the game tonight?"
Clueless Joe Jackson: "Sure! Let me grab my ATM card, and I'll be right over!"
----------------------------------------
What is this shit? I aint no soup kitchen for welfare moms! Christ, I might as well go by myself, or with a buddy, and save some coin!
I guess if she invites you over to watch some TV, you are obligated to pay her cable bill too?
MJR: "Joe? Would you like to come over for dinner tonight?"
CJJ: "Absolutely!"
MJR: "Good. Stop by the market and grab some steaks. I like a nice Porterhouse. Get us some nice wine, too. When you get here, the grill is out back........See you around 6?"
Ladies.......if you want the royal treatment, wait for the guy to ask you out instead.
YYZ ~ you seem really passionate about that subject WOW. I am not saying that anyone is obligated to take me anywhere or pay for anything I am just saying that I think it is romantic when a guy treats me like a princess. I enjoy it. I think it is sweet. I don't mind paying as a matter of fact I have paid and I didn't resent it at all but I think when you are courting a girl it is nice to open doors and send flowers and pay for dinner or the movies or anything. I think you are blowing it a little out of proportion with the whole cable thing but that was a great line I really enjoyed it.
And that is all that I have say about that!
And that is all that I have say about that!
Hey Nick How have you been ? ?
I am more comfortable and always have been paying for myself................Even befor marriage .
Here is a great real life example of that stupid theory .............
My oldest son , he's puppy loving this girl now for about 6 months swears he's going to marry her. The first dance he invited her and paid for tickets, flowers and dinner after, the 2nd dance same thing we are talking well over 100.bucks! The 3rd dance "she" invites him and has the nerver to ask my son for the $$$ for tickets:shrug: what the hell is that ? ? Now I get this phone call last night and its my sons football coach he expresses that he is very concerned about my son out of almost 100 football players he is the only kid who didn't weigh in at a higher amount than last year HE LOST WEIGHT Here my kid gets 6-7 dollars a day for lunch ............. He's been not eating at school so he can take this girl out on the weekends and apparently what I give him isn't enough.............. Now mannners are 1 thing but I see nothing wrong with a girl paying the way here and there AT ALL.............
MISSY- you crack me up
I am more comfortable and always have been paying for myself................Even befor marriage .
Here is a great real life example of that stupid theory .............
My oldest son , he's puppy loving this girl now for about 6 months swears he's going to marry her. The first dance he invited her and paid for tickets, flowers and dinner after, the 2nd dance same thing we are talking well over 100.bucks! The 3rd dance "she" invites him and has the nerver to ask my son for the $$$ for tickets:shrug: what the hell is that ? ? Now I get this phone call last night and its my sons football coach he expresses that he is very concerned about my son out of almost 100 football players he is the only kid who didn't weigh in at a higher amount than last year HE LOST WEIGHT Here my kid gets 6-7 dollars a day for lunch ............. He's been not eating at school so he can take this girl out on the weekends and apparently what I give him isn't enough.............. Now mannners are 1 thing but I see nothing wrong with a girl paying the way here and there AT ALL.............
MISSY- you crack me up
Justinsmom,
Don't forget to look me up next time you are in Chicago for business. I believe in chivarly!
"But I don?t know how to leave you
And I?ll never let you fall
And I don?t know how you do it
Making love out of nothing at all"
Your bud,
Dud
Don't forget to look me up next time you are in Chicago for business. I believe in chivarly!
"But I don?t know how to leave you
And I?ll never let you fall
And I don?t know how you do it
Making love out of nothing at all"
Your bud,
Dud
yyz,
very funny post, & i agree with you.
i have been married for close to 20 years, & i still open the car door. when we go out to lunch or dinner, there are many times she insists on splitting the bill with me. she says it gives her a feeling of being independent. because of this i buy her gifts at unexpected times. the reason why i do this is because of this independent attitude & because she appreciates it, rather than demand it. unlike my first wife(lol).
justinsmom,
i had a friend who was a successful designer in nyc, who married his assisstant. after a few years, his wife became a designer also, & eventually was making more money than my friend. my friend didn't like this, & divorced his wife. he felt threatened by her making more than him. he also cut off any contact with the people who knew this story, i guess because of embarrassment.i lost alot of respect for him because of this & didn't miss him at all.
i don't know how long you have been single, but have you found men threatened by you making more money than them ?
very funny post, & i agree with you.
i have been married for close to 20 years, & i still open the car door. when we go out to lunch or dinner, there are many times she insists on splitting the bill with me. she says it gives her a feeling of being independent. because of this i buy her gifts at unexpected times. the reason why i do this is because of this independent attitude & because she appreciates it, rather than demand it. unlike my first wife(lol).
justinsmom,
i had a friend who was a successful designer in nyc, who married his assisstant. after a few years, his wife became a designer also, & eventually was making more money than my friend. my friend didn't like this, & divorced his wife. he felt threatened by her making more than him. he also cut off any contact with the people who knew this story, i guess because of embarrassment.i lost alot of respect for him because of this & didn't miss him at all.
i don't know how long you have been single, but have you found men threatened by you making more money than them ?
I think if the women asked the guy out as friends then I would expect them to go dutch. If I insisted on paying that may make her feel obligated and put her in a wierd situation.
On the other hand if I was dating the girl then I would insist on paying almost every time. However, if she decided to pay one night I would not rain on her parade.
Most of this bullchit is common sense.
Now if she asked me out as a first date to go to a particular place then I would let her pay the bill and I would then pay the next bill or offer to take her out the next time and treat.
I think some girls would feel degraded if you forced to pay on a date that they offered you.
On the other hand if I was dating the girl then I would insist on paying almost every time. However, if she decided to pay one night I would not rain on her parade.
Most of this bullchit is common sense.
Now if she asked me out as a first date to go to a particular place then I would let her pay the bill and I would then pay the next bill or offer to take her out the next time and treat.
I think some girls would feel degraded if you forced to pay on a date that they offered you.
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I don't know if it is because I make more money then them or not. I don't brag about money, well I try not to, so I would assume most people who don't know me wouldn't know my financial status and would probably underestimate me because of my age (I love being underestimated). I think that a lot of men may feel threaten by me (pee pee) because of my attitude. I am extremely independent some may say obnoxious, no one in this forum I am sure LOL but the guy has to be able to hang with me. I am a little rough around the edges and if a guy comes up to me with a pickup line I usually just laugh at him. So I think that guys who don't know me get threaten by my attitude and guys who get to know me and find out how much money I make usually it is to late they are already in love with me so they don't care that I make more then them.
Missy
Missy
Nick-great post. Interesting topic.
Demanding equal rights killed chivalry. The two CANNOT exist together. They are polar opposites of one another.
Chivalry is the art of being a gentleman towards a woman and looking out for her is a "special way". That is a way that one would not do for another man. Opening doors, buying flowers, carrying heavy objects, and always providing the payment at dinner for a woman because she is a woman is sexist in today?s society.
Equality is sought and fought for (in legal arenas) by women everyday. Not respecting the plight of these women would be disrespectful and boorish.
Missy- How can a businesswoman like yourself expect equal treatment in the workplace yet expect special treatment elsewhere? It seems like a double standard to me.
In my life, I work a full time job and my wife also works a full time job. We split the bills and the housework. I cook. She does the laundry. I cut the grass and maintain the yard. She dusts and vacuums the house. I do not consider myself any less of a man because I cook or help with the housework nor is my wife any less of a woman because she holds down a full time job.
Chivalry is dead.
It died with the Nineteenth Amendment in 1920.
You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
Demanding equal rights killed chivalry. The two CANNOT exist together. They are polar opposites of one another.
Chivalry is the art of being a gentleman towards a woman and looking out for her is a "special way". That is a way that one would not do for another man. Opening doors, buying flowers, carrying heavy objects, and always providing the payment at dinner for a woman because she is a woman is sexist in today?s society.
Equality is sought and fought for (in legal arenas) by women everyday. Not respecting the plight of these women would be disrespectful and boorish.
Missy- How can a businesswoman like yourself expect equal treatment in the workplace yet expect special treatment elsewhere? It seems like a double standard to me.
In my life, I work a full time job and my wife also works a full time job. We split the bills and the housework. I cook. She does the laundry. I cut the grass and maintain the yard. She dusts and vacuums the house. I do not consider myself any less of a man because I cook or help with the housework nor is my wife any less of a woman because she holds down a full time job.
Chivalry is dead.
It died with the Nineteenth Amendment in 1920.
You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
Wow, Blazer if I need an attorney I will surely contact you. !!!!!
Do you practice corporate law too..!!
:spotting: :clap: :thumb:
Do you practice corporate law too..!!
:spotting: :clap: :thumb:
Leave it to a bunch of men to misconstrude exactly what I said. I said nothing about splitting chores with your wife. What I said was that if a man was COURTING me I would find it attractive if he insisted on paying. I think it is charming and appealing. So please if you are going to come back at me at least come back at me and know what I said. Thanks.
Chivalry is not dead it is alive and well!!!
Chivalry is not dead it is alive and well!!!
JMom, don't think every response here is directed at your comments, just in response to the thread.
Also, remember the original question - if the girl asks a guy to a baseball game. IMO, right thing to do is to ask her if she wants $ for the ticket. She probably should say no and then the guy should pay for the food and beers at the game. Seems simple to me.
Also, remember the original question - if the girl asks a guy to a baseball game. IMO, right thing to do is to ask her if she wants $ for the ticket. She probably should say no and then the guy should pay for the food and beers at the game. Seems simple to me.
Tara,
Great to see you, too. Sounds like your lad may be whuwhuwhuwhuwhu....
Damn, can't bring myself to say it but I think you know what I mean.
I must admit I knew I'd be starting something by posting what I did, but I think it's a fun discussion. One thing that always makes me laugh is women who claim that men, "can't handle them." And this usually comes from women who are financially independent.
Here is my advice to those women: cut out your shit attitude and maybe you will find a good man. If you maintain your shit attitude, you will continue to turn good men away. If you want to entice a good man even more, learn to cook and learn to accept that good men generally want a situation where roles are different for men and women, not one where both parties are "equal".
See, us good men know that we are in demand so we aren't going to settle for some broad with a bad attitude and no homemaking skills. Sounds chauvanistic, I know, but that is just the way it is. If you want to keep your attitude and your money, fine. Then just accept the fact that you will continue to go through life without having a chance at landing the best men like myself.
And I must add that it goes both ways. Guys who maintain a selfish attitude are not going to find the type of good women that are out there. If the women you meet and date all seem self absorbed and all seem to have attitude problems, then maybe the real problem is that you are being too selfish in not making enough sacrifices to attract and keep a great woman.
Great to see you, too. Sounds like your lad may be whuwhuwhuwhuwhu....
Damn, can't bring myself to say it but I think you know what I mean.
I must admit I knew I'd be starting something by posting what I did, but I think it's a fun discussion. One thing that always makes me laugh is women who claim that men, "can't handle them." And this usually comes from women who are financially independent.
Here is my advice to those women: cut out your shit attitude and maybe you will find a good man. If you maintain your shit attitude, you will continue to turn good men away. If you want to entice a good man even more, learn to cook and learn to accept that good men generally want a situation where roles are different for men and women, not one where both parties are "equal".
See, us good men know that we are in demand so we aren't going to settle for some broad with a bad attitude and no homemaking skills. Sounds chauvanistic, I know, but that is just the way it is. If you want to keep your attitude and your money, fine. Then just accept the fact that you will continue to go through life without having a chance at landing the best men like myself.
And I must add that it goes both ways. Guys who maintain a selfish attitude are not going to find the type of good women that are out there. If the women you meet and date all seem self absorbed and all seem to have attitude problems, then maybe the real problem is that you are being too selfish in not making enough sacrifices to attract and keep a great woman.
Nick,
Just wanted to mention that I always find your topics intellectually stimulating and I hope that you continue to post here on a regular basis.
When I first think of chivalry, I think of knights and dragons and damsels in distress. It's not really something that I associate with the society that we live in today. You've heard it before, chivalry is dead. But I don't really believe that. It's too final, it doesn't leave any room for us to be better people again. Chivalry isn't dead, it's napping. And I think it's time for us to wake it up.
To me, chivalry isn't just about brave knights coming to rescue helpless princesses. It's having the courage to always do what you know is right, regardless of what happens or what other people think. And it isn't only about the big things in life, it's also about the little choices we make everyday. Countless times during the course of a day, people are faced with situations where they are forced to choose between doing the right thing and the wrong thing. More often than not, there is a middle choice, it's not quite wrong, but it isn't exactly right either. Chances are, this middle choice will be easier and more tempting. Chivalry is doing the right thing just because you know it's right.
Chivalry is holding the door open for old people and people with babies. Chivalry is being the best person that you can be at all times. It's totally idealistic and as such unreachable. We will never be perfect, but we can always be better today than we were yesterday.
I was at this website the other day and (I forgot to write down the address, and I'm not entirely sure if this is accurate, but it works so let's just go with it) I was reading about the virtues that were considered chivalrous by knights and kings and what have you back in the day. It said that they figured the five key virtues of chivalry were honor, loyalty, courage, generosity, and forgiveness, and I think that these are still things that every person should strive to be.
Honor is doing what you say you will and treating other people fairly and with kindness, no matter how they have treated you. It means that when you do something wrong, you come right out and say so, you accept responsibility for it even if you know someone is going to be really mad about it. People who are honorable admit when they've made a mistake and then do everything they can to fix it. They ask to be forgiven, but they don't expect it and they accept whatever happens.
Loyalty, to me, is the biggest thing. It's the quality I value most in other people and in myself. To me, being loyal to someone means that you will stick with someone through anything. Even if you think they're wrong, you recognize that it's their decision and you stay with them anyway. Knowing that you have someone you can count on is absolutely the most encouraging thing in any difficult situation.
Which brings me to courage. Courage isn't not being afraid of anything; people who aren't afraid of anything are stupid. Courage is seeing what needs to be done and doing it even though it scares you. Real bravery is facing the things that scare you.
I think that generosity is underrated. I don't necessarily mean giving people things, it's more than that. Generosity is going out of your way to do something for someone else just because you can, not because you have to. It's what you do for other people without getting anything in return, just to make things easier for them. Besides, doing something that makes someone else feel good will almost always make you feel good too.
Forgiveness is something that I find surprisingly difficult to explain. To me, it's believing that no one ever really sets out with hurting someone else as their goal. It's automatically assuming that when someone does something to you, there wasn't any malice behind it and then being able to let it go because even if they haven't said so, you don't believe that they did it on purpose.
It's impossible to be completely chivalrous. It's a goal that nobody will ever achieve and because of that a lot of people don't see the point in trying. The thing they don't understand is that the harder we try, the better we get. Just because we won't ever be perfect, it doesn't mean we won't ever be great.
Just wanted to mention that I always find your topics intellectually stimulating and I hope that you continue to post here on a regular basis.
When I first think of chivalry, I think of knights and dragons and damsels in distress. It's not really something that I associate with the society that we live in today. You've heard it before, chivalry is dead. But I don't really believe that. It's too final, it doesn't leave any room for us to be better people again. Chivalry isn't dead, it's napping. And I think it's time for us to wake it up.
To me, chivalry isn't just about brave knights coming to rescue helpless princesses. It's having the courage to always do what you know is right, regardless of what happens or what other people think. And it isn't only about the big things in life, it's also about the little choices we make everyday. Countless times during the course of a day, people are faced with situations where they are forced to choose between doing the right thing and the wrong thing. More often than not, there is a middle choice, it's not quite wrong, but it isn't exactly right either. Chances are, this middle choice will be easier and more tempting. Chivalry is doing the right thing just because you know it's right.
Chivalry is holding the door open for old people and people with babies. Chivalry is being the best person that you can be at all times. It's totally idealistic and as such unreachable. We will never be perfect, but we can always be better today than we were yesterday.
I was at this website the other day and (I forgot to write down the address, and I'm not entirely sure if this is accurate, but it works so let's just go with it) I was reading about the virtues that were considered chivalrous by knights and kings and what have you back in the day. It said that they figured the five key virtues of chivalry were honor, loyalty, courage, generosity, and forgiveness, and I think that these are still things that every person should strive to be.
Honor is doing what you say you will and treating other people fairly and with kindness, no matter how they have treated you. It means that when you do something wrong, you come right out and say so, you accept responsibility for it even if you know someone is going to be really mad about it. People who are honorable admit when they've made a mistake and then do everything they can to fix it. They ask to be forgiven, but they don't expect it and they accept whatever happens.
Loyalty, to me, is the biggest thing. It's the quality I value most in other people and in myself. To me, being loyal to someone means that you will stick with someone through anything. Even if you think they're wrong, you recognize that it's their decision and you stay with them anyway. Knowing that you have someone you can count on is absolutely the most encouraging thing in any difficult situation.
Which brings me to courage. Courage isn't not being afraid of anything; people who aren't afraid of anything are stupid. Courage is seeing what needs to be done and doing it even though it scares you. Real bravery is facing the things that scare you.
I think that generosity is underrated. I don't necessarily mean giving people things, it's more than that. Generosity is going out of your way to do something for someone else just because you can, not because you have to. It's what you do for other people without getting anything in return, just to make things easier for them. Besides, doing something that makes someone else feel good will almost always make you feel good too.
Forgiveness is something that I find surprisingly difficult to explain. To me, it's believing that no one ever really sets out with hurting someone else as their goal. It's automatically assuming that when someone does something to you, there wasn't any malice behind it and then being able to let it go because even if they haven't said so, you don't believe that they did it on purpose.
It's impossible to be completely chivalrous. It's a goal that nobody will ever achieve and because of that a lot of people don't see the point in trying. The thing they don't understand is that the harder we try, the better we get. Just because we won't ever be perfect, it doesn't mean we won't ever be great.
I guess sometimes it may seem like I am a jerk on here with some of my opinions etc, But the reason I do nice things for other ladies in my world is,..... A, I loved my Mother, B, I love my wife and C, I love my daughter's. I only hope that they will receive (or received) the same treatment from other gentlemen in their world, be it a door held open, a helping hand for a elderly lady in or out of her car,(I work in the automobile business), telling a lady driver her right rear tire is low, giving up your seat in a resturant, etc,etc you get the idea.
Too simple maybe but it works for me, however I do meet women in the world who thru actions observed may not be deemed worthy of such honor, respect and courtesy, I still give them a chance to change unless they really treat me like dirt. Then I am simply cool and kind and distant, but never rude.
Too simple maybe but it works for me, however I do meet women in the world who thru actions observed may not be deemed worthy of such honor, respect and courtesy, I still give them a chance to change unless they really treat me like dirt. Then I am simply cool and kind and distant, but never rude.
DR.STANGE- that has to be the best thoughts I ever read of yours WOW the Loyalty thing is HUGE in my book too, I believe without that you have nothing!
Missy my girlfriend IS a bit misunderstood here guys. What she is saying is that the courting process is where yes she expects to be treated with some male respect "nothing wrong with that" !!!! The funny thing is she always pays for everyone MALE and FEMALE" all the time" or tries to anyway! I see nothing wrong in her wanting a guy to be able to stand up to her a bit and take over , for a change. especially if they are dating GEEEEEZ thats not at all to much to ask!
FOR THE RECORD MY HUSBAND LETS "ME" PAY ALL THE TIME hehehe
just kidding
Missy my girlfriend IS a bit misunderstood here guys. What she is saying is that the courting process is where yes she expects to be treated with some male respect "nothing wrong with that" !!!! The funny thing is she always pays for everyone MALE and FEMALE" all the time" or tries to anyway! I see nothing wrong in her wanting a guy to be able to stand up to her a bit and take over , for a change. especially if they are dating GEEEEEZ thats not at all to much to ask!
FOR THE RECORD MY HUSBAND LETS "ME" PAY ALL THE TIME hehehe
just kidding
Well, I am being totally misunderstood in this thread. I have been called a bitch once or twice and I do expect respect from people, especially the person I am dating. But on the same hand I am a kind and gentle and loving mother, sister, daughter and friend. Just because I am not a great cook that means I will never land a good guy. Just because I expect people to respect me and just because I want the guy that I am dating to treat me chilvalirous and pay for our dinner and/or refuse to accept my money that means that I am going to die a lonely old lady that is just ridiculous. But opinions are like assholes and everyone has one so I am going to wave the white flag gentlemen I don't want anyone to get their panites in a bunch.
Missy
Missy
