miguel cabrera

[Cie]

the triple crown is an amazing feat, even if what stats are emphasized in the game has changed. It's even more amazing that someone that wins it isn't the clear cut MVP. Perhaps that is part of what I like about this season and the sport of baseball.

Can't believe this is the case, but if I had a vote, I would cast it for Trout.

what an amazing player that kid is.

 

[the addict]

Let's go ahead and forgoe all voting on MLB awards and use only sabermetrics to decide...lol

Seriously, what if the NFL started using passer rating to select the league MVP. Takes the fun out of it to let computers decide these things imo.

bingo


leages were around and very succesful long before all of these stats were around...


im not saying that they cant benefit a organization...

if they help the athletics to get the best team for the less amount of money, hell ya go for it...


but i agree, should not be the sole thing that determines who the "best" is...

 

[Mr. Poon]

Let's go ahead and forgoe all voting on MLB awards and use only sabermetrics to decide...lol

Seriously, what if the NFL started using passer rating to select the league MVP. Takes the fun out of it to let computers decide these things imo.

But if the main argument for Cabrera is "he won the triple crown", those are just stats too?

 

[shawn555]

all im tryin to get people to underrstand...



some poeple dont give a shit about billy beane...



some of the most well respected people in baseball say that sabermetrics are all garbage and worthless...




i mean , they did build a very succesful mlb by providing fans with the very best talent in the world long before they had WAR to determine what players belonged in the pros

And oakland just won the Al west with a payroll that was second lowest at beginning of the season while detroit has two players making 366+ million in payroll between them. Detroit would have finished fourth in the AL west.

 

[shawn555]

bingo


leages were around and very succesful long before all of these stats were around...


im not saying that they cant benefit a organization...

if they help the athletics to get the best team for the less amount of money, hell ya go for it...


but i agree, should not be the sole thing that determines who the "best" is...

One of the great parts of baseball is that stats and numbers like 61 714 2131 etc, I guess now that we have newer stats they suck.

 

[Cie]

But if the main argument for Cabrera is "he won the triple crown", those are just stats too?

I hear what you are saying, but my point is it is subjective. WAR leader should not be handed the league MVP. I cannot fault anyone for voting Trout. Hell, he is a phenom and I will be the first to say he is a better player than MC. But, when i read posts indicating that this is not subjective, I can only laugh.

 

[shawn555]

I hear what you are saying, but my point is it is subjective. WAR leader should not be handed the league MVP. I cannot fault anyone for voting Trout. Hell, he is a phenom and I will be the first to say he is a better player than MC. But, when i read posts indicating that this is not subjective, I can only laugh.

I am not saying just because he is the WAR leader he should be mvp.

I am just saying that WAR is a better indicator of who is the better player then BA RBI and Hrs.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

dont bother cie...


youll be proved an idiot, and believe me, some do not understand the meaning of the word "opinion"


i sware, we work on teaching the children I work with "other peoples perspectives" and "just because people have differrent opinions doesnt mean they are wrong"

sware?

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

I hear what you are saying, but my point is it is subjective. WAR leader should not be handed the league MVP. I cannot fault anyone for voting Trout. Hell, he is a phenom and I will be the first to say he is a better player than MC. But, when i read posts indicating that this is not subjective, I can only laugh.

Every metric points to Trout. How clear can it be? If it was close and there was debate between the metrics I could see your point.

 

[Mr. Poon]

Detroit was 45-29 (59%) against the Central and 13-20 (39%) against the West.

Angels were 30-26 (54%) against the West and 25-20 (56%) against the Central.

The AL Central was the worst division in baseball based on cumulative won/loss of its members. The AL West was the toughest.

Arguing that Cabrera is on a playoff team isn't valid in my mind.

 

[Cie]

I am not saying just because he is the WAR leader he should be mvp.

I am just saying that WAR is a better indicator of who is the better player then BA RBI and Hrs.

I can agree with that, and am actually of the opinion, without having looked at a WAR ranking list, that Trout is the better player.

My vote goes to MC because he raked at an alltime level and his team is in the post season. Also, I like that he has done so while battling demons.

 

[the addict]

And oakland just won the Al west with a payroll that was second lowest at beginning of the season while detroit has two players making 366+ million in payroll between them. Detroit would have finished fourth in the AL west.

you read my post in which i said these stats are great if they can help organizations minimize spending and maximizing production....awesome...

as far as using them to determine who the best is...dont think so...


why is that so crazy to have as a opinion...

i mean dude, you cant really get this upset everytime someone doesnt agree with you on somehting that is subjective do you??


read my posts...


hundreds of times I have said:

trout very much deserves it...

trout has been amazing...

the stats are great for certain things....




I dunno why you think it is so upserd to think that WAR shouldnt be a important part of deciding the MVP....they didnt use WAR for the first billion years of baseball, I just think they should keep it consistent, and just let the mvp be decided by who people have watched, physically watched, that they think is the best...


nothin more, nothing less....

you think stats new stats should determine it, i think older stats and the eye test should determine it...


great man, who cares we think different...

promise you this happens many times during the day all over the world where people dont agre...


doesnt mean they are foolish or ignorant to anything, just that they see it different....


i duno maybe im wrong, and i dont mean you, but it seems more and more that people only see their perspective, and if yours isnt the same, its wrong...



fuck it i dont even know why i joined into this...im a much bigger football fan...


what if miggy wins?

are certain people still gonna argue that individuals who dont think sabermetrics are the sole way to determine who the best player are wrong???

see ya

 

[Mr. Poon]

I can agree with that, and am actually of the opinion, without having looked at a WAR ranking list, that Trout is the better player.

My vote goes to MC because he raked at an alltime level and his team is in the post season. Also, I like that he has done so while battling demons.

You really believe this?

Do you think Wins as a stat, both for the team and individual, should be a leading factor for the Cy Young?

When Zach Greinke won the Cy Young a couple years ago, I thought that was a big breakthrough in that category as he was dominant but lost so many games 1-0 or 2-1 because his team was so anemic.

 

[Cie]

Detroit was 45-29 (59%) against the Central and 13-20 (39%) against the West.

Angels were 30-26 (54%) against the West and 25-20 (56%) against the Central.

The AL Central was the worst division in baseball based on cumulative won/loss of its members. The AL West was the toughest.

Arguing that Cabrera is on a playoff team isn't valid in my mind.

I haveen't seen standings once this season. I can't even list the playoff teams:facepalm: You have clearly given this more thought than me, so in the event I am granted a vote, I will let you have it...lol

Cant argue with y'all that MC is better, cuz he isn't, but I do hope he wins.

:toast:

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

I can agree with that, and am actually of the opinion, without having looked at a WAR ranking list, that Trout is the better player.

My vote goes to MC because he raked at an alltime level and his team is in the post season. Also, I like that he has done so while battling demons.

Anaheim has the better record and had to play more against a tougher division.

Who the fuck cares if he had some demons? What the fuck does that mean? I heard Trout's dog died yesterday. Does that change your mind?

Next.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

you read my post in which i said these stats are great if they can help organizations minimize spending and maximizing production....awesome...

as far as using them to determine who the best is...dont think so...


why is that so crazy to have as a opinion...

i mean dude, you cant really get this upset everytime someone doesnt agree with you on somehting that is subjective do you??


read my posts...


hundreds of times I have said:

trout very much deserves it...

trout has been amazing...

the stats are great for certain things....




I dunno why you think it is so upserd to think that WAR shouldnt be a important part of deciding the MVP....they didnt use WAR for the first billion years of baseball, I just think they should keep it consistent, and just let the mvp be decided by who people have watched, physically watched, that they think is the best...


nothin more, nothing less....

you think stats new stats should determine it, i think older stats and the eye test should determine it...


great man, who cares we think different...

promise you this happens many times during the day all over the world where people dont agre...


doesnt mean they are foolish or ignorant to anything, just that they see it different....


i duno maybe im wrong, and i dont mean you, but it seems more and more that people only see their perspective, and if yours isnt the same, its wrong...



fuck it i dont even know why i joined into this...im a much bigger football fan...


what if miggy wins?

are certain people still gonna argue that individuals who dont think sabermetrics are the sole way to determine who the best player are wrong???

see ya

upserd?

 

[Mr. Poon]

I haveen't seen standings once this season. I can't even list the playoff teams:facepalm: You have clearly given this more thought than me, so in the event I am granted a vote, I will let you have it...lol

Cant argue with y'all that MC is better, cuz he isn't, but I do hope he wins.

:toast:

just having a healthy discussion, that's all.

Both of these guys had great seasons. What we should debate is the worthlessness of the Gold Glove awards.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

What we should debate is the worthlessness of the Gold Glove awards.

Those are insane too. I'm ready for that debate.

 

[the addict]

upserd?

yes my spelling is terrible (hope i spelled terrible correct..)

spelling in no way is a direct indication of a person's intellegence....you know this correct?

once again, just another thing that makes me inferior to TU



i really hope you're a cooler person in real life...

i really mean that man....

 

[Cie]

You really believe this?

Do you think Wins as a stat, both for the team and individual, should be a leading factor for the Cy Young?

When Zach Greinke won the Cy Young a couple years ago, I thought that was a big breakthrough in that category as he was dominant but lost so many games 1-0 or 2-1 because his team was so anemic.

Didn't King Felix also win or contend for CY recently with a poor record and great numbers. Not sure if he won, but i do know i was rooting for him.