I was just watching a report on the building of our military equipment. Was hard to believe that 30% of our goods and material are not even built here. I know 30% is not much till it's the 30% you need the most. We were starting to run short on parts. Some had to come from Japan, Denmark, Brazil to name a few. How we get are self in these tight spots. Report said it started by end of Nam. They wanted many sources so items could reach any area of world fast. BS. Maybe couple those countries dont agree with us. Or are willing to work at a pace that gets us what we need. Even are latest super fighter just getting ready for service. Has parts that come form 7 differant countries. I call this careless and could get us in deep chit someday.
Military Parts Made Where?
- Thread starter djv
- Start date
Its not careless at all, its the way the miliatry does business and makes more sense then you think.
When we first started talking to Turkey about putting bases there, it was (and still is) a huge gain for the US militarily in terms of allowing us access to the Middle East/Asia/Europe. I dont think anyone can argue its military/strategic importance. In return, Turkey wanted the US to build a factory in Turkey to make the canopies that go on the F-16. I dont get the big deal, these kinds of deals happen all the time, we get something we need, we give a little in return.
When we first started talking to Turkey about putting bases there, it was (and still is) a huge gain for the US militarily in terms of allowing us access to the Middle East/Asia/Europe. I dont think anyone can argue its military/strategic importance. In return, Turkey wanted the US to build a factory in Turkey to make the canopies that go on the F-16. I dont get the big deal, these kinds of deals happen all the time, we get something we need, we give a little in return.
Turkey may not be best example. They helped us very little if any with Iraq. Canada makes 10% they said no to Iraq. Not everyone loves us or agrees with us when chips are down. The swiz who make some special timeing parts for our smart bombs. They claim
to be neutral to war. What if they deside to do that when chips are down and say we cant ship and build war parts. So I say there some good and bad in this.
to be neutral to war. What if they deside to do that when chips are down and say we cant ship and build war parts. So I say there some good and bad in this.
Neither Gulf War would have been possible militarily without our planes and troops in Turkey. They dont have to send troops or cash to help us with the war. Simply being there helped us. Regardless of how long it took them to allow us to use their airspace and planes (keeping in mind there is a thousand years of history they have to worry about as well), regardless of that, neither war would have happened without them. No Northern Front, no air support from the North, no AWACS and no refueling tankers.djv said:
Personally, I dont think any country would ever close their doors to us if we have economic interests in their country. Who could afford to do that? Certainly not Canada or Switzerland. I just dont have a problem with this I guess, its simple economics. If the Swiss make the best timing parts and know how to make them better, then its cheaper and easier for us to get them from the Swiss.
I think the bigger question, and where I agree with you, is what happens when a country where we have bases refuses to allow us to use those bases in a nearby conflict. Thats why I agree we should be pulling troops out of places where they arent necessary, like Iceland.
Last edited:
Ace is right.
Our money is our power.
The fact that we "farm out" a few minor parts (canopies are minor when compared to warheads) gives us a stratiegic advantage when we need airspace and logistic placement of troops.
Our money is our power.
The fact that we "farm out" a few minor parts (canopies are minor when compared to warheads) gives us a stratiegic advantage when we need airspace and logistic placement of troops.
I have to wonder why we were able to build all we need for WWII Korea, here at home. Sounds like we only started to farm some out near end of Nam. Seems like those jobs would be welcomed right here with so many out of work. I dont trust any other country with anything to do with our military parts or safty of this country. Strange how this report comes out. Then we here from tons of congressman. They said did not know this to be true. Now there going to have a look at this matter. A few in both houses are calling for a hereing to see just how much and why.
It really doesnt take as much thought as to why djv. I mean Christ in WWII making a "bomb" was basically like making a big steel case full of an explosive that fell out of the sky. Maybe four or five "parts". Tanks, jeeps everything we were "good" at making we were good at because we could rip them off an assembly line. Thats all we needed. Are you suggesting because we were good at mass producing M1 carbines we should be equally as proficient at weapons that are a thousand times more mechanically complex? We we'rent making ten ton, bunker busting, laser guided smart bombs in 1940. We were making ultra-simplistic weapons. So what? Todays modern weapons have millions of high tech parts, and yes **GASP** some of which the US is not the best at making. If a Japanese country has a nano-technology solution that works best for a certain weapons system, why shouldnt we use it? Should we wait 3 years and 3 trillion dollars later for our companies to catch up. This is simple specialist economics, if another country is good at and specializes in something you do not (IE - Switzerland making timing devices), it makes no sense to try and develop an industry to catch up when you can just trade for or purchase those parts.
I'm as pro-US as they come, but its really sad some people still think we have the best manufacturing facilities and the best industrial solutions for everything and if it comes from another country it must be shite.
I'm as pro-US as they come, but its really sad some people still think we have the best manufacturing facilities and the best industrial solutions for everything and if it comes from another country it must be shite.
Last edited:
- Feb 12, 2000
- 10,652
- 39
- 48
- 51
Another reason why WE could build everything during WWII is because Americans were proud to be Americans. They stood behind their troops, and they didn't have liberal pussies standing in their way. We needed the people to respond, and they did.
That would not happen today!
For the record: I'm not attacking anyone on this board.
That would not happen today!
For the record: I'm not attacking anyone on this board.
Sorry dawgball just to understand, the reason we get parts and systems from other countries now isnt because they make the best parts, its because we arent proud to be Americans and wont do it ourselves? We made everything ourselves then not because it was easy to, but because we stood behind our troops and we dont now, not because our weapons require specializations that other countries have mastered better than us, but because we dont support our troops. Im not sure what your statement is insinuating.
Last edited:
I still say we can build anything here that is built any other place. We are still the leader in Tech. The F118 and B2 both tell us that.
Our tanks with all the high tech do not come from anyother place.
The Subs best ever made. We dont need chit from anyone. And for the right cause all Americans dig in. Even most due it when the cause is fuc/// up. Not all folks ran to Canada during Nam. Not all sit home now and say. Well if the time comes and they may need me I might sign up. We have many right here talk good. But cant walk the talk.
Our tanks with all the high tech do not come from anyother place.
The Subs best ever made. We dont need chit from anyone. And for the right cause all Americans dig in. Even most due it when the cause is fuc/// up. Not all folks ran to Canada during Nam. Not all sit home now and say. Well if the time comes and they may need me I might sign up. We have many right here talk good. But cant walk the talk.
- Feb 12, 2000
- 10,652
- 39
- 48
- 51
No doubt, djv. We have more ability here than anywhere. Our business and government structure hampers that.
Now if you are talking about making t-shirts or footwear, sure there is a better place for that to be made.
I don't disagree that there are advantages of having things outsourced. But my point was that one of the main reasons that we were able to deliver products during WWII was because of the collective effort by almost the entire country.
That would not happen now.
Now if you are talking about making t-shirts or footwear, sure there is a better place for that to be made.
I don't disagree that there are advantages of having things outsourced. But my point was that one of the main reasons that we were able to deliver products during WWII was because of the collective effort by almost the entire country.
That would not happen now.
Its really simple, whether its weapons systems or food or shoes, international trade theory states that trade is going to be based on comparative advantage between nations. I happened to study defense policy in depth as part of my grad program, just lucky I guess to be in DC and have classes taught by R+D guys at the Pentagon. We are not isolationist as much as you guys would like us to be. So whether or not we CAN make the goods is not the issue. If it costs us a trillion dollars to build something when you take into account R+D, plant and equipment, training etc, is that better than buying it from an ally?
djv, I guess your logic is that we should never import anything, we should make everything right here? Since you brought it up, the M1A1 Abrahms, the most deadly high tech tank in the world, you couldnt be more wrong about. It comes from a lot of other places. The main weapon on the M1A1 is the 120mm M256 Smoothbore Gun - it was designed and built in **Germany** by Rheinmetall GmbH. The armor was designed with the help of the British Ministry of Defense and patterned after their Chobam armor. The digital fire control systems are designed by and come from Canada, a company now a division of General Dynamics - Canada. There is at least one other major system on it that is from another country as well. Is this what you meant by "Our tanks with all the high tech do not come from any other place."
Its tough to have an argument about trade or economics here when the "USA rules, all the other countries suck" attitude pervades. Nothing I can say is really going to convince you otherwise.
djv, I guess your logic is that we should never import anything, we should make everything right here? Since you brought it up, the M1A1 Abrahms, the most deadly high tech tank in the world, you couldnt be more wrong about. It comes from a lot of other places. The main weapon on the M1A1 is the 120mm M256 Smoothbore Gun - it was designed and built in **Germany** by Rheinmetall GmbH. The armor was designed with the help of the British Ministry of Defense and patterned after their Chobam armor. The digital fire control systems are designed by and come from Canada, a company now a division of General Dynamics - Canada. There is at least one other major system on it that is from another country as well. Is this what you meant by "Our tanks with all the high tech do not come from any other place."
Its tough to have an argument about trade or economics here when the "USA rules, all the other countries suck" attitude pervades. Nothing I can say is really going to convince you otherwise.
Last edited:
No not at all if you have that info and it all is true. I stand corrected. And it does bother me. What if those supplies cant get here fast enough from Germany. Canada does not bother me a lot. But we need to be careful with what we hand out. England is one thing. Places like France and Brazil are another story. And you are correct some items like clothing and shoes. Hell we made not even make them here anymore. I just think it's good our government takes another look to make sure we are not doing some dumb things.
Last edited:
djv, the one thing you and I both agree on is we need way more oversight in a lot of these matters. My brother is a press secretary in the Senate and says this shit goes on all the time. Not with just military issues, but all sorts of things. If Congress and the Pentagon arent keeping track of this shit, then who the hell is?
- Feb 12, 2000
- 10,652
- 39
- 48
- 51
acehistr8 said:
That's not what I was alluding to.
My point, which was off subject, is that today there are many other things besides capability that would stand in our way of accomplishing self-sufficient defense. Once again, I am not saying that is what I want.
No biggie.
