minimum wage

[DOGS THAT BARK]

"Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry on Friday proposed raising the federal minimum wage to $7 an hour by 2007, arguing that such an increase could boost the wages of more than 15 million Americans"

Why not make it $20 an hour?Tell em what they want to hear but don't tell em the trade off.

Most employees pay their workers more anyway but fact is some can not and stay solvent. If most employers that this would put crunch on could pay more they would for simple fact good employees would go elsewhere.

you own a business that employs -say 20 people. You have to net $100,000 a year from business to survive. You pay employees ave of $6 an hour now and eek out the $100,000 profit. What does meager $1 an hour raise mean? Just in salaries over $41,000 then there is workmans comp increase and payroll tax increase. Not much left of $100,000 profit he's managed to eek out. Whats he do?
A: charge more to the consumer---but will lead to losing some customers
B: lay 3 employees off and add work to others to keep payroll the same.
C. Cut any employee benefits he might be currently paying.

anyone care to add any solutions---

So kerry gets it passed --every one cheers
Except the people that are layed off or the consumers that have to pay more or the employees that stay and find out increase was passed on to them via more deductions for benefits.

--but Kerry is happy because now he can on his soap box and whine more people are unemployed-inflation is rising and folks are paying more for health benefits.

Just once I'd wish he say "folks the way to get ahead in life if you can't cut the mustard is marry someone that can"

 

[Chopsticks]

Why don't we just give everyone $100 an hour? You mean to tell me I busted my azz through school to have a marketable degree so some GED hopeful can get a raise for having no vocational and/or contributal skills? Give me a freakin' break. Hell, I remember when I started working in a bookstore wharehouse when I was 15 making $3/hr...

 

[djv]

My first job was .75 cents ahour. Other then my paper rout. I have no idea what that was per hour. Mostlikey 25/30 cents.
Dont know what solution is to low paying jobs. Small business also go thru the retraining of people they keep loseing to do low pay. And that can cost a bunch to. Kerry is some what right. If we can take care of the top we need to find away to bring the bottom along. They alway say if you raise minimum wage. That will get folks layed off. But it never seems to happen. I agree if you drop a big amount on them at once it would be tough. But I believe they take 3/4 years to move it up. That way everyone can put it in there business plan. Im still wondering if there that many folks 15 million under 7 bucks. I know there are lots of Wall marts that start folks at 6 to 6.50. But if you stay 6 months or more you do get 7. Some out fits like Wall Mart could easly start folks at 7 and not feal a thing.

 

[kneifl]

I can see both sides of the spectacle here

I can see both sides of the spectacle here

Djv has a good point about Walmart & DTB has a good point about small businesses and sole proprieterships. The solution to this issue should be finding a middle ground. I myself don't think raising minimum wage is a great idea because it could put small businesses out of business quickly. Back in the midwest when I was in college I used to work for an office supply store (been in business since 1910, about 30 employees) that really had to stretch its books when it came to giving raises, losing people, etc. To say the least the bigger chains were catching up with this family owned business which took really good care of me while in school. However, back east I can't see how anyone can survive making minimum wage and having to pay for things like housing, high gas prices, high grocery bills, etc. I know we have income based housing programs but the other stuff can get pretty pricy too, I Imagine a lot of sacrifices have to be made for those who don't have a college degree and can't manage to get a good job. The solution here is to find a middle ground and not raise the min wage.

kneifl

 

[djv]

kneifl I guess when you have a country as rich as ours. It is hard to believe that everyone is not makeing at least $6.50 already. But maybe not. You would hope so. Dam we payed some of the top guys millions. I sometimes think Japan has it right. No one in the work place can make less then 25 times the top guy. It's sounds like commie talk. But on the other hand Japan companies seem to compete real well. Sometimes a company works the best when everyone from top to bottom are happy and taken care of.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Why don't we just give everyone $100 an hour? You mean to tell me I busted my azz through school to have a marketable degree so some GED hopeful can get a raise for having no vocational and/or contributal skills? Give me a freakin' break. Hell, I remember when I started working in a bookstore wharehouse when I was 15 making $3/hr...

Why do you assume someone who has or is a GED hopeful has no vocational skills?

There are a number of intelligent people in this world who have a GED & that didn't hamper their mark on society. Are your views on everything this ridiculous?

 

[Chopsticks]

Mr Hockey

Mr Hockey

Yep

 

[dr. freeze]

nothing better than the government telling a businessman how to run his business

heading quickly towards socialism here we come

 

[yyz]

nothing better than the government telling a businessman how to run his business

heading quickly towards socialism here we come

A good sum of Americans would like a socailistic government. Sad........but true.

 

[auspice]

"Fascism was really the basis for the New Deal."
--Ronald Reagan, quoted in Time, May 17, 1976

 

[bear]

Socialism....bullshit

Socialism....bullshit

$7 today,adjusted for inflation, is about the same as the $ 1.25 an hour that I earned in 1964. as a 17 year old kid.
You are pretty naive if you think that the powerful people will treat their workers fairly.......without advocates, unions and other govt. safeguards. Thats been proven in this country and all over the world.......Shoooooooot......where we can find slaves...we use them. Where there are no restrictions on pollution...we pollute. where there are no standards for safety... workers work at risk.

$7 per hour will be passed on to the consumer...the field is level and the competition will be paying $7 as well......If businesses can't compete with the global workforce.....they will go where the Smith-Corona workers went.

Now .....the fact that we have to compete with people who work for a buck or 2 a day in sri lanka, china etc................well thats another issue.

bear

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

I agree with you Bear that safeguards must be put in place and agree on big businesses but was speaking more on terms of small business.
In 64 I was putting up hay for 1 1/2 cent a bale and thought I was in tall cotton--but didn't have family to support and lived at home being a child.
but I think there is place for lower paying jobs for part timers,students and those that can't find anything else.
Raising minimum wage will run some small businesses out and I can't see how that helps anyone.
I just hate mandated pricing of any kind as I think supply and demand will take care of it.
--and of course my major beef is politicians selling the sizzle and not the steak. They tell you want you want to here but not the consequences.
My fav comes from both sides each year.---Reduce health care cost--sounds good every year but fact is they can't do squat--unless they tackle the issues of litigation and when 70% of legislation has legal backrounds (wonder why that is?) you know they aren't going to resolve that issue.

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

nothing better than the government telling a businessman how to run his business

heading quickly towards socialism here we come

It's working much better now with big business telling the government how to run the country.

I'm for a minimum wage increase to the poverty level as that was what it was intended to do in the first place.

Dogs, I think that there are already provisions for people under 20 and for a minimum level of employees that a business must have in order to be bound by minimum wage laws. Small business won't lose money as they're usually pretty nimble, they'll cut back on benefits, so that their employee outlay will be relatively constant. It will benefit the majority of those making minimum wage and hurt the few employees that have major health care issues.

However, we have never seen a minimum wage increase and had so many workers not qualifying for overtime as may pass this year, so it may be manipulated during this increase.

I'm just happy that Kerry is putting out some issues so that a voter can actually distinguish between the two candidates.

Socialism? Fascism? Has the right really gone that far from the center that raising a minimum wage to it's real dollar amount at inception calls for a label of a fascist? Welcome to the brave new world.

 

[ssd]

I own a small business - a greenhouse, garden center and flower shop. Have 50 employees. The only people I hire at minimum are high school kids -sophmores or juniors. Seniors always ask for $7+ and I'll start them at $6 with a review in 30 days. If they make the 30 days without being fired, they're worth $7+ Very labor intensive job and I pay the best I can for what we do. In my area, our greenhouse pays the best wages with the best benefits. However, it is starting to affect my bottom line as health care costs have gone up 223% in 3 years. If they raise the minimum and health-care, taxes and costs keep rising, I will be forced to hire people for my busy seasons, put them on a salary and work them 60-70 hours a week and cut benefits. Profit is not a dirty word and that is what I am in business to make. The Gov't - local, state and federal is making it much harder to do that. I'm tired of busting my ass week in and week out so that the gov't can give my money to people who don't deserve it. I believe if you are worth "x" amount per hour to a company, they will pay you "x". It should not be mandated. I solve that problem with my 30 day review. Over half the kids I hire don't last one week. I hate t oday it but it is a reflection of our society - they don't want to work. I have always tried to stick with hiring American kids but more and more, I am looking at migrant labor. They work hard, are happy to have a job and always show up.

 

[ctownguy]

ssd, that is one of the first times I have read a post that I should have written. Your post explains exactly why I got out of the restaurant business I had been in for over 25 years.

Nothing political about it at all, these are the facts that have been laid out perfectly by ssd.

Gov at all levels are killing the small businesses in this country and it is sad. Businesses can not be a parent to their employees and that is what gov is asking more and more.
What really hit home in your post was the hiring of American kids and how they have completly lost their work ethic. They want a job to say they work, trouble is when asked to work, they can't believe what they have to do for the paycheck.

ssd, you hit it right on. If gov would get out of the way you would see entrepreneurship explode, but in this day and age it will never happen.

ps - what party continually saddles American business with taxes, regulations, and restrictive labor laws?

 

[djv]

ssd, as a small business your size. You are indeed one of the few that will offer health care. How do you split that cost with your workers. Are you also part of another small business group to make sure you get best rates. You say health care has gone up 223% in 3 years. I wonder if you mean. 23%. I heard as high as 30%. Witch happen to me. But if health care has gone up 223%. Then we know it's just not about litigation. We got some huge proffit takers.

 

[dr. freeze]

health care has FORCED to go up because of not because of litigation but because of the FEAR of litigation

$$ now is collected as administrative fees, hospital bills, accountant fees, etc. etc........patients are required more tests and days in the hospital directly because of this fear

it is ridiculous and it needs a handle on it....and the only way is to get rid of all the litigation.....

to be honest, many doctors are directly benefiting from the lawyers --- more stays in the hospitals, more consultations, more labs, more $$ for career testifiers all puts $$ directly into physician's pockets which does nothing for society at large but increase expense..... i say that because contrary to belief of some, including some who would stop at no ends to slander, assassinate character, etc. etc.....dr. freeze actualyl profits from this mess......a small percentage however compared to people who actually run the hospitals and the lawyers

additional $$ is made at the local pharmaceutical level where markup on drugs is extraordinary because the dollar has been taken out of the market as patients will pay whatever the price is for drugs....you can copay at CVS across the street from Walmart exactly the same no matter who charges what.....just imagine what gasoline woudl cost if we all paid "insurance" on it and the cost was 50 cents a gallon at any gas station you went to.....gas prices would soar

this whole mess ends up in the courts and in "insurance" which people think they are entitled to and government is forcing down the throats of the people....middle men are added everywhere.....insurance used to be exactly that "insurance"....now it is used for any routine checkup and medicine.....the price to the populace has shot up and this has no end in sight I might add....

This is exactly what is going on. Doctors still make a good salary but nothing relative to what they used to make. They work their tails off -- especially those in FP, surgery, and medicine. And do not see most of the $$ that is paid. Example a simple laporoscopic appendectomy may cost 15 grand by the time its all said and done....payment to the surgeon is usually around 500. You figure out the %.

Its a sad state of affairs and it needs to stop and the only way to stop it is to take back the courts. Then and only then can you address the other problems.

 

[JT]

In regards to helping business small or large with rising health care costs I am all for larger tax breaks/writeoffs for money spent in this regard. Or for private citizens if they choose to pay or don't work for a business that does. At least until the health care problem is solved. Another thing hurting small businesses are these mammoth Warehouse type operations.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Doc You have excellent point on testing issues.It has been to long ago a yearly physical would not cost that much as your Dr did the routine check up. Not so any more. Lab tests can run 5 times the Dr's charge. Cat scans--ultra sounds and other costly procedures are now standard on minor ailments for fear litigation.
I also blame the insurance co for coming out with very rich benefits of no deductibles and co-pays rather than the standard deductible and coinsurance. It induces people to run to dr at the slightest running nose as they know their expenditure is limited.
There are in fact some plans that a person is financially better off being admitted to hospital than having work done on outpatient basis. These all lead to adverse claim ratio's boosting premiums.
Many of these errors are now being corrected.
One misconception is how many younger people do not have insurance. Mostly it is because they choose not to. When companys paid 100% of employees premiums all young unmarried males would be covered--as premiums increased,many small businesses have had employees kick in portion of premiums.
When this occurs you can bet 50% of workers in the umarried under 28 bracket will waive coverage.
---and on young americans not liking to work--I have friend that owns construction company and it involves some pretty tough jobs with shovels and cement packing with wheel barrows ect.
He has ran continuous help wanted adds for years as many quit before days end. Especially one segmant of population who continully tell him,they can't do it, that is a mans job.

 

[Terryray]

raise minimum raise, keep minorities out of jobs

raise minimum raise, keep minorities out of jobs

Nearly all economists understand that raising minimum wage (above equilibrium level) raises umemployment. It's simple supply and demand--- some of these workers aren't worth their new increased costs, so availability of these jobs shrink. Get more machines to do the work, hire more skilled workers to replace them (why unions love minimum wages--reduces competition for thier labor), substitues (put hand air-dryers in bathroom with auto flush toilets to reduce cleaning cost, tho consumers don't like these "improvements"), or just plain eliminate the job (like theatre ushers or elevator operators).


Even the Labor Dept now calculates how many jobs will be lost with each incremental increase in minimum wage.


these lost jobs are the ones available for the most unskilled workers---teenagers, parttimers, disabled, minorities and so on. Workers don't usually stay a long time at these minimum wages (hence they don't have to try to "live on minimum wage" for long)---it's a starting job)

A starting job some workers will have harder time to find with a higher minimum. The first rung on the employment ladder gets cut off for them. No surprise that the racists in apartheid South Africa had the most stringent minimum wage laws in the western world for years. They did so for the explicit purpose to reduce black's participation in job market and overall harm their employment prospects. Works just as well doing that in our economy, but many economic illiterates here argue it helps minorites!

One economist wrote a book about the sorry history of pricefixing going back to ancient Greeks, how it almost never works (in the long run) examining empirical data going back thousands of years.




---and on those doctors/lawyers, found this piece:

"Medical-malpractice battle gets personal---Some doctors are refusing medical treatment to lawyers "

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-06-13-med-malpractice_x.htm