Money Management

Trampled Underfoot

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Oh Ye' of Little Faith!! :0008 and EGO...:142smilie

It's not Ego, it is the Fact my Bets, Wagers & RECORD are for all to see..
I Post so others can see when I'm Hot and also when things are not going well.........
If I had an EGO I would not Post all that due to the chance of a Disastrous Outcome therefore Destroying My Ego..
I'm one of the Few that post Updated Records each post without playing a Shell game like most......


Someone wants to bet 2%-3% or whatever that's their prerogative..

I'll just say my BR is 10,000 so my $500 wager is at the acceptable 5% :facepalm: .....



It's a matter of To Each his Own ..It works for me BUT I Do Not Bet Nearly as Many Games as Most in the Gambling Arena!!!

GL & God Bless..... :0008

VACATION WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:00hour

You failed to understand my post. You are posting that your play is 22% when in reality it is not. If I remember, you start off with a $2500 bankroll, but as your bankroll goes up or down you don't resize. I've seen you in the whole a few thousand and still betting the same amounts. Which means that you aren't really betting 22% of your bankroll. The only reason I say that is this guy was asking for help and people like you fuck them up. I don't give a shit what you do but the squares that follow you will get hurt by BS like that.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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I'm as much in favor of solid money management as anyone but the example above implies that wagering on a football game is as random as picking a marble from a box. Which, given the wealth of information available to the people with the diligence to leverage it; it simply is not.

The above example assumed a 55% winning percentage. If you are good enough to estimate a winning percentage you simply change the number of marbles.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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Look who thats coming from-

If you disagree with that you are not a pro at all. Each game you wager should have an estimated win percentage. No game is 100%. When you come up with your big 8% plays or whatever you do, i'm sure you are estimating a higher win percentage. And i'm sure you estimate that win percentage. At that point it is the equivalent of picking marbles out of a bag but with more wins than the lower percentage games. What is so hard about that? :facepalm:
 

Trampled Underfoot

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If anything I've ignored your thread as I've been quite busy but I think its HONEST threads like this that make MJ's so unique.

Before qualifying your bank roll, I think it's important, no, mandatory, to qualify your reasoning for wagering.

STEP ONE. Qualifying to Play.

1. Do you currently live pay check to pay check?
2. Does gambling frequently bring negative confrontations to and your spouse, significant other, or family?
3. Are you out of debt?
4. Is there something you can do for your family or friends BEFORE you gamble your money away? This question is ignored more times than confronted. I personally believe I fight more with this one question than all others. How many times has a close friend/family spoke of hardened times and you listen and empathize but don't act? I still struggle with this. It's philosophical and will be not be emphasized in this text, but I lost a grand last week and the first thing I thought of is how I could have helped someone in need that I care about... and that I hate the Yankees but I digress.
5. Is there an increased sweat factor if you lose for an extended period of time?

STEP TWO: Defining yourself as a Player

1. Are you an action guy who plays primarily for entertainment? A lot of guys just scoffed that read this but trust me, many play for action and follow up it with self denial.
2. Are you actually trying to make money, even supplement your income to pay bills, live more extravagantly?
3. Are you selective in plays?
4. Are you going to use a grading system for unit amount?
5. Have you set goals on the year? I break it down into four week stretches but to each their own.

STEP THREE: Your Bankroll
1. How much can you designate for gambling? I think this should be included in your monthly budget if this is money coming out of your paycheck and your families mouth. It goes back to being true to ones self. If you're spending more than 10% of your salary on gambling and not including it in your entertainment budget then you're stealing from yourself and family.
2. Will you replenish if and when you lose 100% of your bank roll? Sounds stupid but people do it or you wouldn't have reload bonuses flashing in your face every time you go to a sports book online. If yes, 5% of previous bank roll (Notice your now at 15% of your salary if this is coming out of your paycheck) OUCH. You have to have a stop loss point or it's self destruction.
3. What will each play be worth as a percentage of your bank roll. Its dynamic to the individual but for the average gambler, let's say $1000. Right away, if you're thinking you are a hundred dollar player, you're kidding yourself. If you're in it for entertainment and said $50 with selective play I would agree as it's just entertainment. But if you're gambling goal is to build your bankroll this year only to use it going forward, then I would say 2.5% - 4% of your bank roll not including juice vig of .10%/bet.
4. Are you going to pay yourself back your initial investment as your bankroll climbs? Why wouldn't you if it's entertainment. If it's for extra income, I say yes and your $ should not fluctuate until you've paid back your loan. It's up to the individual really.

STEP FOUR: Wagers
1. Is there a max or minimum on the amount of wagers placed?
2. Are you placing only wagers you handicapped or wagers that you coattail? Hey, some guys can't pick their nose. I'm one of them in several sports.
3. Is there a % of your bankroll you play per day or week? I think this is debatable as there may be ten games that fit perfectly into a qualifying play one week and just two the next two weeks. It's debatable.
4. Are you keeping track of your weaknesses? Have you identified any gaps, leaks, or have a blind sides to any one type of bet? Prop bets, totals, half time wagers, prime time plays, etc. They are there and you will play longer if you identify them and discipline yourself to avoid them.

STEP FIVE Monitoring and Controlling
1. Have you kept a detail log of teams, games, betting styles throughout the season and adapted your play based off your strengths. For instance, I lost 4 Penn State games last year before I realized my rankings were flawed. I had no insight to Penn State and even worse a false confidence in my knowledge of that team. Ultimately my bank roll increased when I removed them as a qualifying wager.
2. Have you SUCCESSFULLY adjusted your bankroll each day or week (depending on the individ) as the season progresses. This is the most common mistake.
3. Have you put the proper checks and balances in place to know if should increase wagers and decrease wagers.


I have a group of friends that gamble as well as a group of friends that don't. We all coexist, some better than others. But interestingly enough, the non-gamblers or "Sales Guys" we'll call them made an interesting point. Just as you would negotiate a salary, you should negotiate ahead of time what you are wanting to get out of gambling.

If it's a 100% return. Then make certain your formula for success equals that and lay out your plan and check it along the way. But understand there is greater risk with higher yields and a greater, much greater chance of complete failure.

Thanks for reading, hope it helps. I would appreciate any comments about the question related to helping others and if anyone has taken 10%+ of their bankroll and done so.

I'd be interested to know your thoughts.

This is my plan for this football season.

:toast:

This is a great post.

A couple things I wanted to comment on. My posts about what your risk percentage should be is only for those who seriously want to make money and try to grow your bankroll. If you are a square and just want to bet TV games or just bet for fun, it doesn't apply. You should just look at it as entertainment and bet what you can afford to lose.

Also your bankroll should be defined as what you are willing to invest in gambling. Like I was talking about with pro, he pretends like he starts off with a $2500 bankroll but if he lost all that he would load up again. So in reality his bankroll is a lot higher.
 

Woodson

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Thanks TU. I appreciate you reading and responding.

I did look for the Kelly Criterion to money management and found this formula for those interested.


In creating the ideal money management system, it became rather obvious that it would have to have a safeguard for the Wal-Mart (defined as bettors of great quantity of wagers looking for even i minimum profit but profit none the less) bettors, but at the same time, not hamper the bettor who is more comfortable making two or three bets per day by having them wager too little on each game to reach maximum profits.
We will use 4% of our bankroll as our base figure, but then subtract .1% from our bet size for every additional wager we make after our first bet of the day. (If we wager on just one game for the day, our bet size will be 4% of our bankroll.) For example, if we are going to make five bets for the day, our bet size would be 3.6% of our bankroll (4% - .4%) and if we are going to make 11 bets on the day our wagers would become 3% of our bankroll on each play (4% - 1%).

It?s important to stress when using this method all of our wagers for the day will be the same size, as we only recalculate our wagering amount once per day. Using a calculator, this can be done in a matter of seconds, so that we can spend more time handicapping games or shopping for the best lines.

What we are essentially doing is using the half-Kelly method, but adding an element that takes the number of games bet into consideration.

Those who have access to an online sports book will have no problem following the method exactly as described, as online books are just as willing to accept a bet for $106.45 as they are to accept a $110 wager, while those using private bookies are likely to have to make some minor adjustments to their bet size so that it is an even amount.

Using this money management method doesn?t assure a sports bettor of huge riches, but it is the first step in having a profitable season.
 
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Trampled Underfoot

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Thanks TU. I appreciate you reading and responding.

I did look for the Kelly Criterion to money management and found this formula for those interested.


In creating the ideal money management system, it became rather obvious that it would have to have a safeguard for the Wal-Mart (defined as bettors of great quantity of wagers looking for even i minimum profit but profit none the less) bettors, but at the same time, not hamper the bettor who is more comfortable making two or three bets per day by having them wager too little on each game to reach maximum profits.
We will use 4% of our bankroll as our base figure, but then subtract .1% from our bet size for every additional wager we make after our first bet of the day. (If we wager on just one game for the day, our bet size will be 4% of our bankroll.) For example, if we are going to make five bets for the day, our bet size would be 3.6% of our bankroll (4% - .4%) and if we are going to make 11 bets on the day our wagers would become 3% of our bankroll on each play (4% - 1%).

It?s important to stress when using this method all of our wagers for the day will be the same size, as we only recalculate our wagering amount once per day. Using a calculator, this can be done in a matter of seconds, so that we can spend more time handicapping games or shopping for the best lines.

What we are essentially doing is using the half-Kelly method, but adding an element that takes the number of games bet into consideration.

Those who have access to an online sports book will have no problem following the method exactly as described, as online books are just as willing to accept a bet for $106.45 as they are to accept a $110 wager, while those using private bookies are likely to have to make some minor adjustments to their bet size so that it is an even amount.

Using this money management method doesn?t assure a sports bettor of huge riches, but it is the first step in having a profitable season.

Kelly only really works if you are betting on one game at a time. I still think its way too aggressive but if you use it you can only bet one game at a time and then resize your wager. Otherwise you are playing with fire.
 

Woodson

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Kelly only really works if you are betting on one game at a time. I still think its way too aggressive but if you use it you can only bet one game at a time and then resize your wager. Otherwise you are playing with fire.

Agreed. However, just understanding the ideas and philosophies of known methodologies allows a player to wager intelligently and decreases the inevitable chasing of recouping the balance sheet.

Once a player realizes that they, for instance have 650 of 1000 in their bankroll, and that 350 is gone and their bank roll is 650, then they will have a bettor shot at being within the 1-2% club and actually break even and profit.

I personally am shooting for 55.5% this season. That will be profitable over a season correctly adjusted my BR.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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Agreed. However, just understanding the ideas and philosophies of known methodologies allows a player to wager intelligently and decreases the inevitable chasing of recouping the balance sheet.

Once a player realizes that they, for instance have 650 of 1000 in their bankroll, and that 350 is gone and their bank roll is 650, then they will have a bettor shot at being within the 1-2% club and actually break even and profit.

I personally am shooting for 55.5% this season. That will be profitable over a season correctly adjusted my BR.

GL :toast:
 

Woodson

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good stuff Woody :0074

how about those of us that can do better picking the marble colors :mj07:

My wife went 24/26 in ncaa hoops in the 06 season against the spread. Everytime i see her wearing her diamond ear rings i bought her with some of the winnings she made me, it reminds me that any one can win betting any type strategy and that i'm lucky to have such a great wife. :mj07:
 

PaSprint

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My wife went 24/26 in ncaa hoops in the 06 season against the spread. Everytime i see her wearing her diamond ear rings i bought her with some of the winnings she made me, it reminds me that any one can win betting any type strategy and that i'm lucky to have such a great wife. :mj07:

:scared damn woody! Share the wealth man? Post her picks would ya?

Wait 06? How'd she do recently? :shrug:

Nonetheless.... that was a helluva run!
 

dunclock

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last year I won was 2003 ... no wait I didnt win cause never got paid and my "guy" disappeared ... havent bet a season since ... BUT I am feeling lucky this year :popcorn2
 

Betone

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Good advice woody and TU , most should follow this format.
I have always started the season with smaller bets and depending on my success or failure as the season and bankroll progresses place my amounts accordingly. I have quit for the year by the end of October before as "sometimes" it is just not your year. I bet football the same way I play blackjack, if I am feeling it, I bet accordingly, if not? Better to just walk away from the table and just watch, nothing wrong with that.
Last year I won my larger plays and lost percentage wise on smaller, non confident bets.
I use a local for larger bets and online for ave bets. At 25 yrs of betting on sports I made the ignorant bet of my life, twice:facepalm:
I ended up lucky, and I mean lucky. I laid 20 times a top line bet on a single game and I am saying that was the worst mistake I ever have made. Did I have it to lose? Yes, would I do it again? Fuck No.....I was so freaking miserable during and after the game, even though I won, I lost. Over 25 yrs of this shit, I broke the cardinal rule of gambling, all in and then some. Never ever be that stupid.....
This year, I am laying low, playing money management and I am sure if I get on a losing streak, I will still enjoy the action. Listen to these guys and enjoy your season:toast:
 

Sportsaholic

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last year I won was 2003 ... no wait I didnt win cause never got paid and my "guy" disappeared ... havent bet a season since ... BUT I am feeling lucky this year :popcorn2

Still waiting on 3 G's here myself from a couple years back. Mine didnt disappear, just wont/cant depending on what story you want to believe...

Carry on :popcorn2
 

Woodson

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:scared damn woody! Share the wealth man? Post her picks would ya?

Wait 06? How'd she do recently? :shrug:

Nonetheless.... that was a helluva run!

I still have the notebook paper from her picks bozed up in storage. Figured i'd do a small frame in the man room for her to have a feeling of entitlement eventually.

She got bored with it and we had just began dating so she put an end to it after she realized i more interested in her picks than getting to know her.

Funny story. I went 82-40 here in hoops a couple years back but it never lasts for my "systems":sadwave:
 

Hashish

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If anything I've ignored your thread as I've been quite busy but I think its HONEST threads like this that make MJ's so unique.

Before qualifying your bank roll, I think it's important, no, mandatory, to qualify your reasoning for wagering.

STEP ONE. Qualifying to Play.

1. Do you currently live pay check to pay check?
2. Does gambling frequently bring negative confrontations to and your spouse, significant other, or family?
3. Are you out of debt?
4. Is there something you can do for your family or friends BEFORE you gamble your money away? This question is ignored more times than confronted. I personally believe I fight more with this one question than all others. How many times has a close friend/family spoke of hardened times and you listen and empathize but don't act? I still struggle with this. It's philosophical and will be not be emphasized in this text, but I lost a grand last week and the first thing I thought of is how I could have helped someone in need that I care about... and that I hate the Yankees but I digress.
5. Is there an increased sweat factor if you lose for an extended period of time?

STEP TWO: Defining yourself as a Player

1. Are you an action guy who plays primarily for entertainment? A lot of guys just scoffed that read this but trust me, many play for action and follow up it with self denial.
2. Are you actually trying to make money, even supplement your income to pay bills, live more extravagantly?
3. Are you selective in plays?
4. Are you going to use a grading system for unit amount?
5. Have you set goals on the year? I break it down into four week stretches but to each their own.

STEP THREE: Your Bankroll
1. How much can you designate for gambling? I think this should be included in your monthly budget if this is money coming out of your paycheck and your families mouth. It goes back to being true to ones self. If you're spending more than 10% of your salary on gambling and not including it in your entertainment budget then you're stealing from yourself and family.
2. Will you replenish if and when you lose 100% of your bank roll? Sounds stupid but people do it or you wouldn't have reload bonuses flashing in your face every time you go to a sports book online. If yes, 5% of previous bank roll (Notice your now at 15% of your salary if this is coming out of your paycheck) OUCH. You have to have a stop loss point or it's self destruction.
3. What will each play be worth as a percentage of your bank roll. Its dynamic to the individual but for the average gambler, let's say $1000. Right away, if you're thinking you are a hundred dollar player, you're kidding yourself. If you're in it for entertainment and said $50 with selective play I would agree as it's just entertainment. But if you're gambling goal is to build your bankroll this year only to use it going forward, then I would say 2.5% - 4% of your bank roll not including juice vig of .10%/bet.
4. Are you going to pay yourself back your initial investment as your bankroll climbs? Why wouldn't you if it's entertainment. If it's for extra income, I say yes and your $ should not fluctuate until you've paid back your loan. It's up to the individual really.

STEP FOUR: Wagers
1. Is there a max or minimum on the amount of wagers placed?
2. Are you placing only wagers you handicapped or wagers that you coattail? Hey, some guys can't pick their nose. I'm one of them in several sports.
3. Is there a % of your bankroll you play per day or week? I think this is debatable as there may be ten games that fit perfectly into a qualifying play one week and just two the next two weeks. It's debatable.
4. Are you keeping track of your weaknesses? Have you identified any gaps, leaks, or have a blind sides to any one type of bet? Prop bets, totals, half time wagers, prime time plays, etc. They are there and you will play longer if you identify them and discipline yourself to avoid them.

STEP FIVE Monitoring and Controlling
1. Have you kept a detail log of teams, games, betting styles throughout the season and adapted your play based off your strengths. For instance, I lost 4 Penn State games last year before I realized my rankings were flawed. I had no insight to Penn State and even worse a false confidence in my knowledge of that team. Ultimately my bank roll increased when I removed them as a qualifying wager.
2. Have you SUCCESSFULLY adjusted your bankroll each day or week (depending on the individ) as the season progresses. This is the most common mistake.
3. Have you put the proper checks and balances in place to know if should increase wagers and decrease wagers.


I have a group of friends that gamble as well as a group of friends that don't. We all coexist, some better than others. But interestingly enough, the non-gamblers or "Sales Guys" we'll call them made an interesting point. Just as you would negotiate a salary, you should negotiate ahead of time what you are wanting to get out of gambling.

If it's a 100% return. Then make certain your formula for success equals that and lay out your plan and check it along the way. But understand there is greater risk with higher yields and a greater, much greater chance of complete failure.

Thanks for reading, hope it helps. I would appreciate any comments about the question related to helping others and if anyone has taken 10%+ of their bankroll and done so.

I'd be interested to know your thoughts.

This is my plan for this football season.

:toast:

Woodson, thank you so much for your well thought out and insightful posts. I tried to give you some reputation, but I have to spread it around a little more.

Step 1. I am a single guy who does not have a family that relies on me for money. Therefore a lot of this step doesn't apply to me. That said, I would love to become a successful bettor that can share the profits with friends and family.

Step 2. I have been an action player in the past. That is undeniable. I am not ashamed to admit it. I have always bet way over my head, chased and depleted my bankroll much more rapidly than I could comprehend or would like to admit. HOWEVER, I am determined to change this. Selectivity and discipline are my new watchwords. I want to do well enough that I can constantly build my bankroll until it is big enough to earn me a living. I know that I just set every mouth below the eyes reading this into at the very least a chuckle. Good! I have no problem with people laughing at me, in fact it gives me joy. I am serious about this though. I am not looking to turn into a professional handicapper over night. 4 or 5 years down the road would be great! It starts with this thread and the accountability of having people see what I am doing and be able to offer me feedback.

Step 3. My bankroll will be $1000 to start. This is it. I have wasted too much money over the years gambling. I am ready to manage this bankroll. I will not replenish it if it goes out. I am planning on making 5% wagers to start, and being HIGHLY selective in these wagers. This number will be recalculated when the BR either climbs 50% or drops 20%. If it drops 20% twice (which would be roughly a loss of $360) then I will humbly drop down to the 2% per wager that many recommend.

Step 4. My wagers will be a mix of my own picks and some coattails. I think there are some people on this site that have proven over the years that they are winners. I think this forum is great to pool our collective thoughts and find winners that would be difficult to spot on our own. For example, I don't know jack about hockey, but I know that Willie the Whip's Golds are just that.

Step 5. I think that you are totally right on with looking for situations that are negative for you for whatever reason. It is great when you can find a bleeding spot and put a bandage on it. I was really impressed with your reckoning on your bad results on Saturdays in baseball. I will be always looking for these type of things, and I will be keeping a public record of this journey. Anyone that spots any negative or positive trends in my wagering is encouraged to voice their thoughts.

Again, to Woodson and everyone else that has taken their precious personal time to offer their insights: THANK YOU!!! :0008

I hope that we can all accomplish all of our dreams and aspirations. I hope you will enjoy my journey here on the number one handicapping forum on the web. :toast:
 

Woodson

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Glad to help. :0074 i see an issue with your third step and will write it out tomorrow. If you read and want to gain some insight into the lifes of real professional gamblers, pick up The Smart Money. Its a great read into sports betting and will be a movie similar to 21 eventually.

Will circle back tomorrow.


:0074
 
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