More Poker Hand Analysis...

[saint]

Once again feel free to tell me I'm terrible I dont have the most experience, this was a tourny at party, 1170 entrants I just got cracked out in 60-something place, trip Js to trip Ks.

Anyways, this was a pivotal hand for me looking back. There were about 140 people left at this point, I was third or 4th overall in chip lead. This hand really would have pushed me ahead but I don't know if I should have callled, or if I just think so after looking at the flop.

Quick info regarding players involved: reddawg was 2 seats to my right and was stealing blinds all night. I was pretty patient and cracked him pretty hard when he was stealing for about 7k chips about 20 mins previous to this hand. Anyways, sitting in the SB, when reddawg raised it I initially was going to re-raise because he was most likely going for the steal again. However, when screw-face called it surprised me he is pretty tight. Had screw re-raised I would have automatically folded but the fact that he only called let me think he was a little weak. Still, I folded. Anyways as you can see I had 8Js...without even considering the fact that i would have flopped the nut straight, is that a call in that particular situation or was I right in laying it down?

As always thanks for the feedback fellas. I'm dcs2121.

***** Hand History for Game 3262598567 *****
dcs2121: had i called and flopped a J might have been big trouble
600/1200 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (Limit) (Tournament 18604439) - Mon Dec 26 04:18:15 EST 2005
Table Multi-Table(551148) Table 4 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: offenseman (5420)
Seat 2: reddawg814 (5837)
Seat 3: Screw_Face (27612)
Seat 4: dcs2121 (20695)
Seat 5: GBall0581 (12234)
Seat 6: Lollipimp (5064)
Seat 7: twopr1011 (3539)
Seat 8: shuga_daddty (9563)
Seat 9: HotCRod (1360)
Seat 10: WhatTheZel (4691)
dcs2121 posts small blind (300)
GBall0581 posts big blind (600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to dcs2121 [ 8s, Js ]
Lollipimp folds.
GBall0581: yeah, that would have been nice for me
twopr1011 folds.
shuga_daddty folds.
HotCRod folds.
WhatTheZel folds.
offenseman folds.
reddawg814 raises (1200) to 1200
Screw_Face calls (1200)
dcs2121 folds.
GBall0581 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 9d, Th, Qs ]
reddawg814 bets (600)
Screw_Face folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 3900
Board: [ 9d Th Qs ]

 

[saint]

Sklansky says it's a hand to play.

Anyways, was that just a really bad play or was it questionable?

I seem to be able to read people well, I play very loose and aggressive which earns me chips w/out showing cards. I think it's time I stop playing for a while and put in some homework though. It's frustrating to spend 3 hours, be on the cusp of getting enough chips to bully people around and making the one or two mistakes due to bad play. But I guess that's just the nature of the beast :mj14:

Feedback still appreciated.

 

[Blitz]

My Opinion... good fold.

you only had 300 in, would of cost you another 900 just to see the flop and you would of been out of position the rest of the hand. If you were on the button I might of called.

Yeah, after the flop you see you would of had a str8, NOT the nut str8 like you stated, KJ would of been nut str8. sometimes you will make the right fold and then would of flopped a monster, but you have to live with that if you want to play good solid poker...

 

[twofingers]

I agree. It was a good fold.

Calling a raise out of position with a marginal hand is not a habit you want to get into, especially with the raiser as someone who you have described.

 

[SixFive]

good fold

 

[Agent 0659]

Well assuming you are putting the guy on a steal, which I think you are, the question is what do you think ScrewFace has? He is your true threat and he is in the best postiion. You think he has a small pair or maybe KQ suited? The other guy only made a minimum raise, which I hate and I think you can assume if you smooth call that will bring the big blind in making a 4 way pot. I like J8 suited in a 4 way pot, its easy to play. The problem is the position, I think its borderline at best to play it from 1st position but sometimes being there allows you to lead into the other players and move them out, or trap them all if you flop a big hand like you did. Gotta go with your gut on this and how the table is flowing. If I can get a cheap flop from the blind with a hand like that, I'm probably going to take it. You have plenty of chips to take a flop with this hand, I would have played it.

 

[BleedDodgerBlue]

its a lot closer than everyone here thinks, and its not an easy fold. pot has 2400 in it plus your 300 plus bb's 600. you have to put in 900 into a 3300 pot. you might even be able to assume that bb will tag along for only 600 more with 4 players, but i won't. you are getting almost 4 to 1 on your money and over 4 to 1 if bb tags along. the original raiser is hurting for chips, so he can't hurt you. if you play well post flop, its an easy call, but i don't know about your postflop play.

forget what the flop was, thats irrelevant. too many players are results oriented. doesn't matter that you would have flopped the 2nd best hand and most likely won. just worry about what to do in that situation again.

i ran it on pokerstove a few times and againts AA and a random hand, J8 suited has about an 18% chance of winning. so technically you need better than 5 to 1 on your money. but that's only assuming original raiser has AA.

against AK and a random hand, J8 suited is about 32% equity, which you only need 3 to 1 to call which you are clearly getting.

you are close to the chip lead anyway, don't just try and hoard chips. you aren't gonna win many tournaments doing this. know is the time of the tourney you need to use your stack and take points and continue to accumulate chips. sitting on them to just try and go deeper doesn't accomplish much if you get deeper and become the short stack. if you are trying to win the tourney you should call. if you are just trying to finish in money and grind out real small tourney profits than i guess its ok to fold.

but i like a call in this spot if your postflop play is good.


gl

 

[Agent 0659]

Scary, we agree again.

 

[saint]

its a lot closer than everyone here thinks, and its not an easy fold. pot has 2400 in it plus your 300 plus bb's 600. you have to put in 900 into a 3300 pot. you might even be able to assume that bb will tag along for only 600 more with 4 players, but i won't. you are getting almost 4 to 1 on your money and over 4 to 1 if bb tags along. the original raiser is hurting for chips, so he can't hurt you. if you play well post flop, its an easy call, but i don't know about your postflop play.

forget what the flop was, thats irrelevant. too many players are results oriented. doesn't matter that you would have flopped the 2nd best hand and most likely won. just worry about what to do in that situation again.

i ran it on pokerstove a few times and againts AA and a random hand, J8 suited has about an 18% chance of winning. so technically you need better than 5 to 1 on your money. but that's only assuming original raiser has AA.

against AK and a random hand, J8 suited is about 32% equity, which you only need 3 to 1 to call which you are clearly getting.

you are close to the chip lead anyway, don't just try and hoard chips. you aren't gonna win many tournaments doing this. know is the time of the tourney you need to use your stack and take points and continue to accumulate chips. sitting on them to just try and go deeper doesn't accomplish much if you get deeper and become the short stack. if you are trying to win the tourney you should call. if you are just trying to finish in money and grind out real small tourney profits than i guess its ok to fold.

but i like a call in this spot if your postflop play is good.


gl

Thanks for the detailed explanation. The reason I was close to calling was the fact that I would be getting 5 to 1 but I didn't have odds of situational hands to compare it to. What is pokerstove? As I said maybe earlier, maybe not I cant remember, but personally if I'm going to sit there for 3 hours I don't want to just place in the $ I'm going for the win or broke. Seems that many people do exactly that...build up a big stack and sit on it to get their entry back. I've found the best times to steal chips is right when there's a jump in prize money because people tighten up a bit. So I try to stay pretty aggressive, not recklessly but I pick my spots.

Seriously though thanks for taking time to write an explanation, just trying to learn. Thanks.

 

[BleedDodgerBlue]

no prob, i'm by no means a tourney expert, but i'm versed in them. i live off ring games, but enjoy playing some tourneys. maybe others can offer better advice.

not sure links are allowed, but you can get a free download of pokerstove at pokerstove dot com. its a free odds based calclulator that allows you to insert hands. nice easy to use program.


gl

 

[saint]

no prob, i'm by no means a tourney expert, but i'm versed in them. i live off ring games, but enjoy playing some tourneys. maybe others can offer better advice.

not sure links are allowed, but you can get a free download of pokerstove at pokerstove dot com. its a free odds based calclulator that allows you to insert hands. nice easy to use program.


gl

Thanks again. As with you I've done pretty well full-ring consistenly and needed a change and have started tournaments more for fun but they are a different beast than full-ring.

 

[Agent 0659]

Bleed we are agreeing so much, you should consider reevaluating your play :lol: