More proof the really wealthy avoid their tax responsibilities

[Mags]

I understand where your 50% number comes from and I understand it is FIT. How many of those are WW2 vets who do not make enough to pay taxes? I also pointed out in a previous thread how those 50% that do not pay FIT feel the hit of every other tax hundreds of times harder than the wealthy do.

Now back to my question. How you suppose we catch the cheats if you want to keep shrinking gov't and cut their pay?

Good question.

Here is an idea: make it illegal to have cash based wages - such as tips, side jobs, etc. If you think about it, it probably is illegal already, as it is effectively money laundering as a way to avoid paying taxes.

Make all wages electronic, so there is record for the IRS (most are already). Most IRS auditing is done via electronic records, followed up by agents when the computer spits something out.

For restaurants, people can still leave cash tips, but waitstaff must provide this to the restuarant, so they can enter it into the register.

There are a lot of fairly easy ways to take care of this. If Obama would go after this in the same way he did the offshore gambling this year, it would be taken care of pretty quickly - and rather easily.

 

[Mags]

On a related note, I'm surprised that some of you Obama fans are giving him a free pass for taking all the online poker sites and gambling sites down.

I always thought that this was a Republican issue, and that the Dems were "for the people"

Not on the gambling issue I guess.

 

[Chadman]

The applicable numbers here as far as federal taxes go are these (for this discussion):

Top 1% makes 20% of the income in the country, pays 38% of the income tax, and has an average tax rate of 23.27%.

The bottom 50% makes 12.75% of the income in the country, pays 2.7% of the income tax, and has an average tax rate of 2.59%.

The top 50% makes 87.25% of the income in the country, pays 97.3% of the income tax, and has an average tax rate of 13.65%.

Does it make sense to go after the people who make 12.75% of the money in the country - who pay out all they take in and more (as a rule) just to survive and get by in life, who struggle to make it as it is? How is this going to solve ANY of our financial problems as a country?

Let's say they got up to the 13.65% of the top 50% - how much money would that raise? What is 11% of 12.75% of the money in the country? Is that the solution that will make conservatives happy? Or do you want to drop what the upper 1% pays, so they pocket more money (that they don't have to or usually need to spend) and the country takes in even less?

 

[The Sponge]

Listen, Sponge, I know you are not that intelligent, so I will give you a pass here.

I stand by my statement. Note that I said "50% don't pay FIT".

I realize that you are not financially astute, so I will spell out what FIT stands for - Federal Income Tax.

So, my comment, was absolutely correct, and your response was a stupid one, as usual.

. You and dogs have spouted that lie over and over again so did u finally change it and put FIT now? Im sure if i go back to some of ur old post the FIT would have never been mention. What u really mean is that 50 percent pay no taxes at all. I wonder if those fifty percent pay sales tax or do they get around that also? Yeah i overlooked ur FIT statement. After hearing u two assclowns say taxes the last year forgive me for my slip.

 

[Chadman]

On a related note, I'm surprised that some of you Obama fans are giving him a free pass for taking all the online poker sites and gambling sites down.

I always thought that this was a Republican issue, and that the Dems were "for the people"

Not on the gambling issue I guess.

"Obama" took down ALL the online poker sites and gambling sites? Really? Interesting perspective. Based on what, exactly? Let's see, could it be the 2006 law republican senate majority leader Bill Frist tacked on to the port security bill that was signed into law by George W. Bush? That law?

Believe me, I have my wonderings about what goes on with gambling and the legislature - several legislators have deep pockets when it comes to gambling donations (Harry Reid comes to mind). But to say Obama is to blame for this is a pretty big stretch, considering Kyl, Frist and other conservatives have sponsored bill after bill to kill gambling in this country - and the bills found a welcome audience and passed with a republican senate majority and President with a pen.

Besides, I thought conservatives are always concerned with enforcing the laws already on the books to take care of most of our problems? Otherwise, democrats are weak, right? Interesting, I guess that only matters if it's the laws you personally believe in? :SIB

 

[Mags]

The applicable numbers here as far as federal taxes go are these (for this discussion):

Top 1% makes 20% of the income in the country, pays 38% of the income tax, and has an average tax rate of 23.27%.

The bottom 50% makes 12.75% of the income in the country, pays 2.7% of the income tax, and has an average tax rate of 2.59%.

The top 50% makes 87.25% of the income in the country, pays 97.3% of the income tax, and has an average tax rate of 13.65%.

Does it make sense to go after the people who make 12.75% of the money in the country - who pay out all they take in and more (as a rule) just to survive and get by in life, who struggle to make it as it is? How is this going to solve ANY of our financial problems as a country?

Let's say they got up to the 13.65% of the top 50% - how much money would that raise? What is 11% of 12.75% of the money in the country? Is that the solution that will make conservatives happy? Or do you want to drop what the upper 1% pays, so they pocket more money (that they don't have to or usually need to spend) and the country takes in even less?

Chad - you make it sound like it is "fair" to take money away from folks if they don't spend it. Not so sure I agree with that.

People are entitled to the money they make. The argument that, as people make more, the government should take more, doesn't make a lot of sense from a fairness standpoint.

Looking at the statistics you showed, it appears that the top 50% are paying well above their fare share.

If you broke down the benefits people get compared to what they pay in for taxes, the top 50% are getting royally screwed.

Seems like the bottom 50% are getting a free ride. They are getting vastly more back than they pay in.

Now, I do realize that there will (and should be) some redistribution. But the facts you just showed would lead me to believe that the bottom 50% needs to have skin in the game too.

I saw a recent study that showed the "poor" in our country are not nearly as poor as people make them out to be. Many of these "poor" have cable TV, cell phones, and broadband internet service. None of these are necessities - and can easily add up to $200 per month these days.

In fairness, I think the bottom 50% should contribute also - instead of punishing people for being successful, and rewarding the others for not being successful (whatever the reason may be for their lack of success).

It just seems to be perverse to punish success and reward failure - although I do realize that is the Democrats credo and mode of operation.

 

[Mags]

. You and dogs have spouted that lie over and over again so did u finally change it and put FIT now? Im sure if i go back to some of ur old post the FIT would have never been mention. What u really mean is that 50 percent pay no taxes at all. I wonder if those fifty percent pay sales tax or do they get around that also? Yeah i overlooked ur FIT statement. After hearing u two assclowns say taxes the last year forgive me for my slip.

No, spongie, I've always been careful about this - I've always said either FIT or Federal Income taxes.

And we all pay the other taxes - so it is, at best, a wash. Some of those other taxes are based on income - so the high earners pay more.

50% of the folks in this country receive way more in benefits than what they put in. Sure, there should be some redistribution. But not 50%. Maybe to the bottom 10-15%. Everyone else should pay their fare share.

And right now, the vast majority of the bottom 50% do not pay their fare share and they should.

 

[Mags]

"Obama" took down ALL the online poker sites and gambling sites? Really? Interesting perspective. Based on what, exactly? Let's see, could it be the 2006 law republican senate majority leader Bill Frist tacked on to the port security bill that was signed into law by George W. Bush? That law?

Believe me, I have my wonderings about what goes on with gambling and the legislature - several legislators have deep pockets when it comes to gambling donations (Harry Reid comes to mind). But to say Obama is to blame for this is a pretty big stretch, considering Kyl, Frist and other conservatives have sponsored bill after bill to kill gambling in this country - and the bills found a welcome audience and passed with a republican senate majority and President with a pen.

Besides, I thought conservatives are always concerned with enforcing the laws already on the books to take care of most of our problems? Otherwise, democrats are weak, right? Interesting, I guess that only matters if it's the laws you personally believe in? :SIB

Whoa... I know Frist put the law in, but nobody went after individual sites until Obama. He didn't have to do it - he chose to.

That's the big problem with Obama (and to a lesser extent, other presidents). But Obama does feel his is King, and that his OPINION trumps the constitution and laws that are on the books.

He has said he won't enforce illegal immigrant laws, unless they are commit a crime (ignoring the fact that his uncle is a danger to society but still let him in).

Well, last I looked, being an illegal immigrant IS a crime - and should be deported as such.

And what about DOMA? Obama basically said he doesn't agree with the law, so he won't enforce it. Since when can a dictator (Obama) make that judgement?

You can bet on this - IF a Republican is in the White House in 2012, I'll bet the 1st thing he'll do is say that he does not agree with Obamacare - and he'll force HHS to not enforce it. And that will be that.

The Dems will scream to high heaven, but since Obama will have set the standard for the President to unilaterally decide which laws should be enforced, nobody will be able to say a damn thing.

And that will be a wonderful time.

Now, if the Republicans can find a candidate worthy of being elected, well that is another story....

But at least the Dems don't have one either (unless, of course, Obama gets a primary challenge from Hillary or someone else, which is becoming more and more possible each day)

 

[ssd]

Tax foundation chart

 

[Duff Miver]

Good question.

Here is an idea: make it illegal to have cash based wages - such as tips, side jobs, etc. If you think about it, it probably is illegal already, as it is effectively money laundering as a way to avoid paying taxes.

Make all wages electronic, so there is record for the IRS (most are already). Most IRS auditing is done via electronic records, followed up by agents when the computer spits something out.

For restaurants, people can still leave cash tips, but waitstaff must provide this to the restuarant, so they can enter it into the register.

There are a lot of fairly easy ways to take care of this. If Obama would go after this in the same way he did the offshore gambling this year, it would be taken care of pretty quickly - and rather easily.

You've certainly earned the name Maggot. You rant on because a minimum wage waitress pockets a few bucks and doesn't pay income tax, or a poor person has a color TV set, but you say not one word of complaint when GE makes $14 billion in profit and pays nothing or when Exxon makes $6 billion and pays not one penny, or when BoA makes $4 billion and gets a $1.9 billion refund, or when Citi makes $4 billion profit and gets a $2.5 billion handout.

You whine that 50% of people pay no income tax, but say nothing about the 2/3 of corporation that pay zero.

Answer me this, you Maggot - how many waitresses would have to pay in every penny they make just to equal what one GE should pay as a fair share?

Yeah, right, we should balance the budget on the back of waitresses, and janitors, and school teachers while the richest among us often pay little or nothing.

You're a maggot, Maggot :0032

 

[Chadman]

Have to run fellas - good discussion (actually, I'm serious...), but have to start getting ready for Friday Night Lights and my son's football game. You know, the really important stuff instead of all this shit... :0074

More later on this, but one request I have... ssd, can you post a bigger chart? I'm having a hard time reading that one...

 

[Mags]

You've certainly earned the name Maggot. You rant on because a minimum wage waitress pockets a few bucks and doesn't pay income tax, or a poor person has a color TV set, but you say not one word of complaint when GE makes $14 billion in profit and pays nothing or when Exxon makes $6 billion and pays not one penny, or when BoA makes $4 billion and gets a $1.9 billion refund, or when Citi makes $4 billion profit and gets a $2.5 billion handout.

You whine that 50% of people pay no income tax, but say nothing about the 2/3 of corporation that pay zero.

Answer me this, you Maggot - how many waitresses would have to pay in every penny they make just to equal what one GE should pay as a fair share?

Yeah, right, we should balance the budget on the back of waitresses, and janitors, and school teachers while the richest among us often pay little or nothing.

You're a maggot, Maggot :0032

Duffy - its really too bad I didn't mean you for drinks at the flower shop.. :00hour

Seriously, there isn't a bigger dick at MJ's than you (ok, I'm stating the obvious)

But it would have been fun - although I've never beaten up an elderly person, I probably would have made an exception for you.

You sir, are a world class dick, incapable of having an intelligent debate about anything without resorting to name calling and insults.

Now, go suck on the tittie you do every day and leave us working folks alone....


By the way, nothing wrong with waitresses and electricians paying their fare share of federal income taxes. The top 50% already pay 87% of the federal taxes, so I don't think the "rich" are paying little to nothing.

Everyone should feel the pain, not just the productive members of society.

 

[Duff Miver]

although I've never beaten up an elderly person, I probably would have made an exception for you.

Any time, any place, you cowardly Maggot.

'scuse me while I have a good laugh :142smilie

You're such a pussy you didn't show up for drinks and dinner. You sure as Hell won't show up for an ass whuppin'.:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

 

[Mags]

Any time, any place, you cowardly Maggot.

'scuse me while I have a good laugh :142smilie

You're such a pussy you didn't show up for drinks and dinner. You sure as Hell won't show up for an ass whuppin'.:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

OK, I know this nice little place in Paris where my wife and I go for drinks and dinner everytime we are there.

Don't be fooled by the big sign out front that says "Flower Shop"..... it is actually a well known restaurant and winery....

:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: