More Supply/Demand BS

Chadman

Realist
Forum Member
Apr 2, 2000
7,501
42
48
SW Missouri
Wayne, they pay a lot in taxes, I get it. It's based on how much money they take in, I get it. And you compare it to the lowest income earners in the country, and complain about them getting benefits, entitlements, welfare, etc.

And no mention of the tax breaks, benefits, entitlements, welfare (pick your word, you usually do the other way) the oil companies get thanks to the administration's first enacted policies. Somehow, I don't think the lowest earners who receive benefits from our government have seen their profits skyrocket, but they are roundly criticized for taking benefits they supposedly don't deserve. I asked why the oil companies deserve these entitlements, while at the same time claiming they are prohibited from using that money as it was intended, and then use our money to pay shareholders a spiff. My tax money going to investors who can afford to invest, many who claim to be overtaxed.

Pretty much agree with Smurph on this one on dealing with the subject matter - although I'm not sure if you were responding to me or not. Maybe not.
 

smurphy

cartographer
Channel Member
Jul 31, 2004
19,910
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L.A.
Here is an interesting critique of the article DTB posted..

http://www.oilwatchdog.org/articles/?storyId=18698

2-14-08 by dugan (and thanks to Mark Reback for the tip)

I can't believe Investors Business Daily would do so little checking of an editorial on Tuesday slamming the critics of ExxonMobil, from Sen. Carl Levin to our small foundation. As a former editorial writer, I'm reluctant to call attention to such a shoddy piece. But it just begs for comment.

The editorial, ?Record Profits Mean Record Taxes,? is based in large part on a blog post by Mark Perry, an economics professor at the Flint, Mich., satellite campus of the University of Michigan and, more revealingly, an adjunct scholar at the hard-right, free-marketeer Mackinac Center for Public Policy.

The Perry blog post is also making the rounds of free-marketeer web sites with its argument that Exxon pays so much tax that we must offer gratitude instead of criticizing its record $40.6 billion profit in 2007, or its $39.1 billion in 2006 profit.

Perry?s bottom line is that poor people don't pay taxes like Exxon does, and thus Exxon is the better citizen. But he doesn't even prove this point.

Perry notes from Exxon?s year-end unaudited figures that it paid, or expected to pay, $30 billion in taxes worldwide to all governments at all levels for 2007, on pre-tax profit of $70.6 billion, which would be a 42% tax rate. That's 42%, of course, after the accountants have deducted or excluded or stashed overseas every possible cent. The $30 billion in taxes can also be viewed as about 7% of Exxon's total revenue, $405 billion.

Prof. Perry notes that over three years, Exxon's annual taxes average $27 million. He then makes a comparison to U.S. income taxes paid in 2004 by the bottom half of American taxpayers, a measly $27.9 billion total. He calls that a 4% tax rate.

Here?s what Perry, much less the IBD editorial, forgets to mention about those taxpayers:

- Their average taxable income is about $14,000 a year.

- Their federal income tax at that level would be dwarfed by payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid (7.65%).

- State and local income taxes are not included.

-Sales taxes are not included

- Property taxes, or landlord property taxes as part of rent, are not included.

- Vehicle registration and taxes are not

included.

- Even state and federal gasoline taxes (non-sales) are not included.

- None of these low-income Americans' taxes went to Kazakhstan, Chad, Nigeria or other corrupt nations with which Exxon does business. Some certainly went to U.S. costs linked to keeping Exxon's overseas investments safe -- such things as naval costs for protection of oil shipping lanes.

- None of these little taxpayers shared in the billions of federal government subsidies to oil companies that their taxes also helped fund.

The comparison is the ultimate apples to oranges, and completely mean-spirited.

The IBD editorial goes on to say:

"That [Exxon] profit, so loathed by the left, actually plays an important role. No, it's not used to light the fat cigars Exxon Mobil executives smoke to celebrate the successful squeezing of consumers.

"Rather, the money is plowed back into research, development, exploration and drilling to keep the oil flowing, and distributed to stockholders who have risked their capital to build an enterprise that provides an essential good ? the lifeblood of our economy."

On the cigar point, the editorial is probably right. On the rest, hardly.

Over the last three years, Exxon has spent an average of at least $25 billion a year on buying back its own stock instead of investing in growth or modernization. The buybacks are a corporate piggy-bank with little or no economic use except for keeping the stock price high. It doesn't even boost dividends.

Exxon's daily cash on hand in 2007 averaged $33 billion. Yet it continues to resist paying $2.5 billion in punitive damages to Alaskans permanently harmed by the negligent Exxon Valdez oil spill in 1989. Imagine what Exxon's lawyers are being paid, year after year, on this case.

And, just to compare to those $14,000-a-year folks, some of whom are probably Exxon employees, Exxon's 2006 compensation to CEO Rex Tillerson included $13 million in direct payment, another $13.5 million in stock grants, and $480,000 in perks including $100,000 for "personal use" of the corporate jet. That doesn't include his right to more than $20 million any time he decides to "retire."

On second thought, I'm proud not to be admired by a publication that would editorialize on the basis of numbers so manipulated and so misused in the service of Exxon.
 

DoMyDermBest

Registered User
Forum Member
Oct 7, 2003
1,729
19
38
Deep in the heart of Texas
Dare you to investigate how many 14K
employees work for them.?My guess is less than 1%, and those are partimers. The top of the food chain is paid exponentially too much. How about some awarenness in terms of shareholder responsibility? If you are not willing to b e aware of your investments, and the distributions. You are pasively being screwed. Be aware. Be informed. What job in this country is worth 10 million? Lots of execs get this. Bonuses in not for profit companies in health care like Blue
cross are approching this level, Great publlic self servants ...
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,485
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Bowling Green Ky
Here is an interesting critique of the article DTB posted..

http://www.oilwatchdog.org/articles/?storyId=18698

2-14-08 by dugan (and thanks to Mark Reback for the tip)

I can't believe Investors Business Daily would do so little checking of an editorial on Tuesday slamming the critics of ExxonMobil, from Sen. Carl Levin to our small foundation. As a former editorial writer, I'm reluctant to call attention to such a shoddy piece. But it just begs for comment.

The editorial, ?Record Profits Mean Record Taxes,? is based in large part on a blog post by Mark Perry, an economics professor at the Flint, Mich., satellite campus of the University of Michigan and, more revealingly, an adjunct scholar at the hard-right, free-marketeer Mackinac Center for Public Policy.

The Perry blog post is also making the rounds of free-marketeer web sites with its argument that Exxon pays so much tax that we must offer gratitude instead of criticizing its record $40.6 billion profit in 2007, or its $39.1 billion in 2006 profit.

Perry?s bottom line is that poor people don't pay taxes like Exxon does, and thus Exxon is the better citizen. But he doesn't even prove this point.

Perry notes from Exxon?s year-end unaudited figures that it paid, or expected to pay, $30 billion in taxes worldwide to all governments at all levels for 2007, on pre-tax profit of $70.6 billion, which would be a 42% tax rate. That's 42%, of course, after the accountants have deducted or excluded or stashed overseas every possible cent. The $30 billion in taxes can also be viewed as about 7% of Exxon's total revenue, $405 billion.
Prof. Perry notes that over three years, Exxon's annual taxes average $27 million. He then makes a comparison to U.S. income taxes paid in 2004 by the bottom half of American taxpayers, a measly $27.9 billion total. He calls that a 4% tax rate.

Here?s what Perry, much less the IBD editorial, forgets to mention about those taxpayers:

- Their average taxable income is about $14,000 a year.

- Their federal income tax at that level would be dwarfed by payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid (7.65%).

- State and local income taxes are not included.

-Sales taxes are not included

- Property taxes, or landlord property taxes as part of rent, are not included.

- Vehicle registration and taxes are not

included.

- Even state and federal gasoline taxes (non-sales) are not included.

- None of these low-income Americans' taxes went to Kazakhstan, Chad, Nigeria or other corrupt nations with which Exxon does business. Some certainly went to U.S. costs linked to keeping Exxon's overseas investments safe -- such things as naval costs for protection of oil shipping lanes.

- None of these little taxpayers shared in the billions of federal government subsidies to oil companies that their taxes also helped fund.

The comparison is the ultimate apples to oranges, and completely mean-spirited.

The IBD editorial goes on to say:

"That [Exxon] profit, so loathed by the left, actually plays an important role. No, it's not used to light the fat cigars Exxon Mobil executives smoke to celebrate the successful squeezing of consumers.

"Rather, the money is plowed back into research, development, exploration and drilling to keep the oil flowing, and distributed to stockholders who have risked their capital to build an enterprise that provides an essential good ? the lifeblood of our economy."

On the cigar point, the editorial is probably right. On the rest, hardly.

Over the last three years, Exxon has spent an average of at least $25 billion a year on buying back its own stock instead of investing in growth or modernization. The buybacks are a corporate piggy-bank with little or no economic use except for keeping the stock price high. It doesn't even boost dividends.

Exxon's daily cash on hand in 2007 averaged $33 billion. Yet it continues to resist paying $2.5 billion in punitive damages to Alaskans permanently harmed by the negligent Exxon Valdez oil spill in 1989. Imagine what Exxon's lawyers are being paid, year after year, on this case.

And, just to compare to those $14,000-a-year folks, some of whom are probably Exxon employees, Exxon's 2006 compensation to CEO Rex Tillerson included $13 million in direct payment, another $13.5 million in stock grants, and $480,000 in perks including $100,000 for "personal use" of the corporate jet. That doesn't include his right to more than $20 million any time he decides to "retire."

On second thought, I'm proud not to be admired by a publication that would editorialize on the basis of numbers so manipulated and so misused in the service of Exxon.

Smurph your posts proves 2 things that I mentioned above--

A: you'll never find these oil company bashers put in what % the profit is to revenue but always use $ amount.
B: and their lemmings never ask why just take in stride as it fits what they want to hear.

However your author goes the extra step in liberal math deception--in highlighted part--trying to compare taxes with revenue instead of profit--
Duh He must assume his audience are total morons to slip that one in--of course I assume most of his readers may not familiar with taxes :)
 

djv

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 4, 2000
13,817
17
0
All companies pay tax. The ones with best lawyers pay less. Not all companies get billions given back from Gov. I agree with what D Trump said yesterday. Stop giving hand outs to them. If they earn so much money that taxes they are to pay are high. That means there doing just fine.
 
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