my politcal views

[gardenweasel]

how many of the iranian mullahs are jewish?....which hamas leaders?....

/not even the most insignificant one.....

look,any moral equivalence argument being drawn between western democracies and islamic theocracies is so absurd,it`s silly to even argue the issue....

luckily,we can have theoretical arguments about what constitutes a democracy and parse ridiculous issues like claiming the israelis are thugs for not giving folks that want them dead carte blanche to murder and destroy their citizens and infra-structure...

you live in a free society...anyone,anytime has the right to worship any(or no) religion as they please(without fear of retribution)....to go anywhere they please....every woman has the right to vote,to drive...to leave their house without wearing a sack.......every gay can be openly gay without fear of government sanction.....this currently being a time of war,,you can join the military(or not).....

no arranged marriages....no honor killing for imagined offense to some religious creed.....

aside from the fact that you are under siege 24-7 in israel,,would you rather live in israeli society,the u.s....or say iran or syria?.....

you can try and make ridiculous theoretical arguments all you want....truth is,it`s here that you can make those arguments without fear of retribution...

good lord,the palis do a good enough jon oppressing themselves....

you really can't beat this war between fatah and hamas....it led directly to the creation of east and west palestine....i guess they don`t get the old, "in unity there is strength, in division there is weakness" saw.......

you can`t change that..

i`ll tell you what you can do,though...the ?free gaza movement,?created by the sham organization " the international solidarity movement"...will help you guys help the palestinians...get on the boat!....

they specialize in convincing gullible half-cooked western kids and other folks with lots of free time to put themselves in harm?s way to advance palestinian propaganda.....

these patsies,on their most recent trip,carried hearing aids and 5,000 balloons for the children. ...

must have been tough decision for the crew....sacks of rice and wheat or boxes of balloons?

stop spending all that aid on rockets(and balloons),and spend it on food for your people...start building some sort of infrastructure....stop electing hateful thugs that steal from the people to lead the government...

 

[hammer1]

Some more for ya Wease.......

Some more for ya Wease.......

How does Israel implement the Democracy it claims to possess? First, any Jew from anywhere in the world can come to Israel and receive citizenship by virtue of his/her Jewishness. By contrast, a Muslim or Christian Palestinian living in exile because of the 1948 war cannot claim citizenship even though they were indigenous to the area, nor can their descendents claim citizenship. Second, ninety percent of the land in Israel is held in restrictive covenants, land initially owned by Palestinians for the most part, covenants that bar non-Jews from ownership including the Palestinians who hold a limited version of Israeli citizenship. Third, Israeli citizens who are Muslim or Christian do not share the rights accorded Jews who serve in the military, nor do they receive the benefits extended to those who serve in the military. Non-Jews are taxed differently than Israeli citizens and the neighborhoods in which they live receive less support. Recently Paul Martin writing for the Washington Times noted "Israeli Arabs are trying to strike down a new law reducing family benefits, arguing that it has deliberately been drafted in a way that will affect Arabs more harshly than Jews."

While Arabs constitute 20% of the population within Israel, their voice in government is limited.
Perhaps the most graphic illustration of the non-democracy that exists in Israel comes from Human Rights Watch and the US State Department reports published in Jurist Law. The range of abuses listed by the State Department includes detainees beaten by police, poor prison conditions that did not meet international standards, detainees held without charge, holding of detainees as bargaining chips, refusal to allow access to Obeid by the Red Cross, imposition of heavier sentences on Arabs than Jews, interference with private rights, etc,, and finally, "Trafficking in women for the purpose of forced prostitution is a continuing problem."

Human Rights Watch offers a litany of abuses, many more serious than those proferred by the Department of State: Israel has maintained the "liquidation" policy targeting individuals without trial by jury, lack of investigations to determine responsibility for killings and shootings, increased use of heavy weaponry, including F-16 fighter jets etc. against "Palestinian police stations, security offices, prisons, and other installations." HRW also references the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the occupied Territories for the wanton killing of civilians by settlers. The listing is too extensive to offer in its totality here.

As I mentioned at the outset of this article, the American public hears constant reference to Israel as the only democratic nation in the mid-east. They receive little or no information about the accuracy of that statement. Yet Americans accept this administration's and past administrations' support of Israel in large measure because they believe that it reflects the ideals expressed in the American Constitution and they are willing to spend their tax dollars in support of those ideals. In reality, American democracy and Israeli democracy are decidedly distinct.

Democracy cannot exist in ignorance of policies, processes, and actions undertaken on behalf of the people including the refusal to admit citizens to areas like Nazkt Issa where non-democratic action exists. Silence by the peoples' representatives concerning reasons for actions taken in their name corrodes democracy. Americans have not been told, for example, that American authorities removed 8000 pages of information from the 12,000 provided by the Iraqi government to the UN Inspectors, according to former MP Anthony Wedgewood Benn in an interview on BBC January 12th , pages removed to protect corporations that provided Iraq with chemicals and other material that could be used to develop WMD. Die Tageszeitung, a Berlin Daily, reported the names of the corporations that acted with the government's approval through the '80s and up to 1991 supplying Saddam with nuclear, chemical, biological and missile technology. An extensive report on the chemicals sent to Iraq by the US was disclosed in the Sunday Herald by Neil Mackay and Felicity Arbuthnot, but received little press beyond this paper. How can the American people respond intelligently to the designs of this administration against Iraq without knowing how Iraq obtained its capability to develop WMD and the reasons for developing them?

Similarly, Israel cannot restrict its citizens, including peace activists, or its American supporters, from knowing how it acts relative to Palestinians by preventing reporters or activists from describing what is done in their name. Preventing the UN investigation of the Jenin "massacre" is only one example. Restricting journalists from occupied territory is another.

 

[TontoKowalski]

Weasel thinks we think all the arab states should get mass $ and backing from the usa, and that we think israel shouldn't exist. obviously not the case. All I'm saying is the usa shouldn't give so much $ to a country that doesn't even need it, and look the other way when israel commits atrocities against mankind in the occupied territories. It's that simple, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[gardenweasel]

How does Israel implement the Democracy it claims to possess? First, any Jew from anywhere in the world can come to Israel and receive citizenship by virtue of his/her Jewishness. By contrast, a Muslim or Christian Palestinian living in exile because of the 1948 war cannot claim citizenship even though they were indigenous to the area, nor can their descendents claim citizenship. .

it`s called self preservation.....pretty simple concept...

when the radical islamists become civilized,maybe they can live together...

btw...did you catch this little attempted nasty by your peeps in iraq....a drugged female teenager...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...atch-teenage-girl-in-suicide-bomber-vest.html

shameless and cowardly...and yet another object lesson why israel cannot afford to let it`s guard down...

 

[djv]

I just hope we keep them in check with Iran. That is one case we need to handle if it comes to fire works. I believe Russia will sit it out if we have to take action. If Israel takes action it may be dam near WWIII.

 

[gardenweasel]

you guys carry on,by all means.....


but,for me,this thread is over...

again,we can agree to vehemently disagree...

appreciate the discussion,and no hard feelings from my end..:toast: