New slavery coming for many Americans

Spytheweb

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I knew when Bush signed the bankruptcy law that it was a bad deal for Americans, good for banks, until now. People could get rid of a few thousand dollars of debt and keep moving. With the bill that debt would stay with them. I bet alot of people who are losing their homes have some debt that they could have gotten rid of with bankruptcy, but carried into home ownership. Now with banks folding and the Fed kicking in billions of dollars to save the banks @sses maybe it wasn't such a good idea.

New slavery means debt. Old slavery the master had to feed the slaves, new slavery you control labor and wages and let the worker feed himself, more profit.


New Slavery Coming for many Americans

On January 1, 2006 banks were ordered to charge at least one percent of credit card balances plus interest to assure that credit card loans were paid down. Recently a rash of consumer complaints became evident when many banks for apparently little or no reason increased interests rates from the low teens to high 29.99 percent or higher. Banks took advantage of some discreet language buried deep in their disclosure documents, primarily that you can have your interest rate increased if you have even one late payment with any financial institution even if it?s not the one raising the rate. Banks were in essence deregulated from charging whatever they wanted, because they are now guaranteed income because individuals can no longer walk away from unsecured debt as easily through a bankruptcy filing. What was once unsecured debt has now become secured unsecured debt to major banking institutions

Believe it or not the Governments run up of debt and the changing of bankruptcy laws could be the beginning of the end for the United States of America. Many democrats and others point to moral and ethical changes as a sign of the major problems if not the end times. Raising taxes to excess or placing excessive debts on the constituency can lead to financial chaos, increased poverty and political turmoil. This type of economic scenario requires countries to look outside their own country to finance their increased spending. Remember the Louisiana Purchase. American Ports, Roads and Corporations are being turned over to foreign interests primarily to sustain the American Dream. During the current President Bush?s tenure the national debt has actually increased more than all other Presidents combined. (This debt is not currently as high in real terms if compared to post World War Two)

For the past several years many people have financed and refinanced to take advantage of increasing home values and pay off excessive debt. Ironically recent economic data shows that average incomes are actually dropping compared to inflation. Recognizing the problem with large numbers of bankruptcies the government changed the rules to avoid allowing many people to walk away from their debts. Many Americans are accustomed to being able to run up debt and pay it off, but this new system is going to create new realities that will test the will of the current Republican congress to avoid a constituent backlash, which could reverse the trend to a new deal not seen for seventy five years.

How did this happen? Quite simply banks and Congress came up with the trickle up philosophy which means that someone would have to pay in case things really get nasty. The trickle up philosophy meaning place much of the responsibility on the lower and middle class allowing people to spend what they want, but they will be made to pay the price through mandatory payment systems and credit counseling. The top 3% of Americans have not only enjoyed the largest tax advantages but, they have also enjoyed the luxury of avoiding carrying responsibility of the debt load as their income is divested across national borders worldwide.

The government could have been wiser by making credit card issuers at least maintain reasonable interest rates, but this is not the case. Banks are now allowed with little or no reason or notification to raise interest rates at will. If you currently have a 10,000 dollar credit card balance at 10% the bank if it desires can change the rate to 29.99 percent. If you are like many people you may not read the disclosure and in one month?s time you would lose 200 dollars and increase your payments by $200 dollars a month on that one card.

Truly men could be enslaved to debt for life if Congress finds a way to mandate repayment of a parent?s debts by a child. This would truly be the last hurdle in taking away individual freedoms at conception and enslaving a person from birth.
 

Cie

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Why is it always someone else's fault? Were these debtors forced into buying a home beyond their means? Did someone force them at gunpoint to purchase a $2500 television, or 6 pairs of $150 jeans, or a 35,000 Tahoe?

Here's a novel concept, how about those who pile up debt by living beyond their means take some accountability for their mistakes rather than blame their creditors?
 

THE KOD

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Why is it always someone else's fault? Were these debtors forced into buying a home beyond their means? Did someone force them at gunpoint to purchase a $2500 television, or 6 pairs of $150 jeans, or a 35,000 Tahoe?

Here's a novel concept, how about those who pile up debt by living beyond their means take some accountability for their mistakes rather than blame their creditors?
.....................................................

Cie

I agree with what you said but the credit card co. make it too easy for so many people to find themselves in over their heads.

The credit card laws in this country have got to change. They are worse than than any loan shark you have dealt with .

Raising interest rates for being late on a payment.
Then they send you your bill in 18 days instead of 30 days. They have all kinds of shard tactics and it is pathetic they get away with it.
 

The Sponge

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Why is it always someone else's fault? Were these debtors forced into buying a home beyond their means? Did someone force them at gunpoint to purchase a $2500 television, or 6 pairs of $150 jeans, or a 35,000 Tahoe?

Here's a novel concept, how about those who pile up debt by living beyond their means take some accountability for their mistakes rather than blame their creditors?



And why is it that guys like you see this fault but i don't hear one peep out of you when we just bailed out a bank for 30 billion(our tax dollars)? We bail out airlines after 9/11 and not a peep(our tax dollars). Why is it that you believe in free markets for profit but when it comes to billionaires you don't mind if they socialize the losses? Why is it you and others are so worried about others over extending their credit but when it comes to someone who is richer doing the same thing i don't here a freaking peep from any of you? Why is it that you would rather go after the little guy all of the time but god forbid if you say one bad word about a billionaire business. How about cutting these people a break just like i did (my tax dollars)for this bank!!!!! The Fed extended JPMorgan Chase a $30 billion credit line to help it buy rival Bear Stearns.
Bottom line is blame them both or don't blame anyone. This selective blame is ridiculous.
 

gardenweasel

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lets all suck the gov`t tit....let the gov`t do it all......then,all we`ll have to read is those marxist websites that spy pulls his anarchist propaganda from...

that is unless we`re to busy raising our asses 5 times a day when the bullhorn sounds the call to prayer....

strange bedfellows...marxists and jihadis....i guess the old "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" saw rings true...

as far as the credit card thing goes,you charge it and you pay it off in 30 days,you`re rolling in clover..a great convenience.....credit cards weren`t intended to be a carte blanche excuse to go insane...
 
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Jabberwocky

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lets all suck the gov`t tit....let the gov`t do it all......then,all we`ll have to read is those marxist websites that spy pulls his anarchist propaganda from...

insane...

same applies for Bear Stearns, right weasal?

You love to call out people for being "marxist" and "anti-American socialists" etc etc etc

I would love to hear, and prove, your business credintials. How did you make your way to the American dream? Care to share?
 

Jabberwocky

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I will be happy to oblige in kind, just tell us all how you have made your money, we all know that somehow you missed military service (which is curious for a boot licker such as yourself).

I am pretty sure that the true answer involves some sort of government aid, I wouldn't know about such things, but I would bet quite a bit that is the case.
 

Jabberwocky

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I understand Weas, the fixed income guys have been fine of late. And before your idiotic retort, none of my properties are ARMs and I am not liquidating in a panic. My day job is fine and wife's dress shop is doing just dandy. Just confirm your business, and STOP CALLING THOSE THAT DON'T AGREE WITH YOU POLITICALLY MARXISTS AND SOCIALISTS. It really is fvcking stupid.

If you would care to elaborate on what Karl Marx actually wrote, I would be impressed. Maybe you and the ascended mage Hedghog, the wizard Tenzing, Nosiger and the boys could get a "think" tank together.
 

Cie

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And why is it that guys like you see this fault but i don't hear one peep out of you when we just bailed out a bank for 30 billion(our tax dollars)? We bail out airlines after 9/11 and not a peep(our tax dollars). Why is it that you believe in free markets for profit but when it comes to billionaires you don't mind if they socialize the losses? Why is it you and others are so worried about others over extending their credit but when it comes to someone who is richer doing the same thing i don't here a freaking peep from any of you? Why is it that you would rather go after the little guy all of the time but god forbid if you say one bad word about a billionaire business. How about cutting these people a break just like i did (my tax dollars)for this bank!!!!! The Fed extended JPMorgan Chase a $30 billion credit line to help it buy rival Bear Stearns.
Bottom line is blame them both or don't blame anyone. This selective blame is ridiculous.

Quit your whining, Sponge. You're getting to be as bad as Spy the Camel. I do not like guaranteeing JP Morgan Chase a 30 billion credit line bailout in case they go belly up due to the acquisition of bear stearns, but it was essential thst soemthing be done. Had Bear Stearns gone down, it could have taken other major financial institutions down with it. Seems like this was a measure to stop a domino effect that could have led to economic disaster.

The Chrysler bailout was before my time, but I recall reading that "we" received stock options that provided massive return in the long term. We also gained representation on the board of directors. If this is true, I wonder why "we" aren't getting those things on this deal?
 

Cie

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.....................................................

Cie

I agree with what you said but the credit card co. make it too easy for so many people to find themselves in over their heads.

The credit card laws in this country have got to change. They are worse than than any loan shark you have dealt with .

Raising interest rates for being late on a payment.
Then they send you your bill in 18 days instead of 30 days. They have all kinds of shard tactics and it is pathetic they get away with it.

I got caught up with credit card debt in college. It sucked badly just like you mentioned. But to call it the new slavery is retarded (And, no Jaberwocky, mental retardation is still not a disease:mj07: )

No doubt that banks make it too easy to open lines of credit. We receive dozens of credit card offers weekly. Seems like an awful waste of paper to me, but it must work for them because the offers keep on coming.
 

gardenweasel

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I will be happy to oblige in kind, just tell us all how you have made your money, we all know that somehow you missed military service (which is curious for a boot licker such as yourself).

.

thanks for the softball,wocky....i didn`t "miss" service...in `73 the draft had ended...our military became all volunteer.....i registered,like everybody else,though....

i also chose not to become a fireman...but,i`m free to have an opinion on firemen...and thankfully,if my house catches fire,the fireman won`t say,"sorry,if you`d wanted your house protected,you should have become a fireman"....

see,that`s how it works,my slow friend...

i can comment on anyrthing i like...whether the iraq war was necessary...whether the war on terror is necessary.....

that `s like someone saying to you,"you have no right to oppose our military...have you ever been a "human shield"?

this is a typical liberal tactic to try an stifle debate...a stupid tactic at that...

thank you for proving that just like love,sometimes "dumb" is blind...:grins:
 
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EXTRAPOLATER

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The article seems to talk mostly about credit card regulations--really nothing about the bankruptcy changes but things have been moving in that direction for decades now--towards less consumer protection.

I saw an interesting Frontline show called The Secret History of the Credit Card (was on recently but saw it back in 2004 when they first aired it). Kind of showed how most people are not very good at managing debt in general. The sub-prime fiasco is just another recent example of that. The show might be available on google or limewire or something.

Capitalism seems to have its flaws but is probably the best thing we've got right now. I think that we just need better regulations in a lot of markets, with banking and other economic regulations appearing very much needed due to some reasons that I'll avoid here--most are obvious. Reforms in education, maybe, could alert consumers how to manage whatever it is that they have to work with. Some kinds of redistribution through taxation seems possible. Perfection is overrated.

Very interested in the subject but I'm not well-versed in economics. Tried. Can't seem to break through.

As for the notion of slavery or a police-state or whatever other repulsive, erroneous label one wants to put on our current Western societies, well...kind of shows a lack of historical perspective. Whether it remains so or not, we are currently living in the most open, free societies that have yet been experienced by our species. These other repulsive labels simply incite the emotional right-brain to fire up while doing nothing for our understanding. Just my thought, if that makes sense. Corruption is certainly with us but we have the freedom to do nothing.

Think I'll exercise some of that freedom now.
:weed:
 

The Sponge

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Quit your whining, Sponge. You're getting to be as bad as Spy the Camel. I do not like guaranteeing JP Morgan Chase a 30 billion credit line bailout in case they go belly up due to the acquisition of bear stearns, but it was essential thst soemthing be done. Had Bear Stearns gone down, it could have taken other major financial institutions down with it. Seems like this was a measure to stop a domino effect that could have led to economic disaster.
Right i got it. If you are a billionaire its okay but if you are a working man its careless spending. You know what i think? Its either right for both or wrong for both not good for one and not the other. You neocon brainwashed middle class thinking people are so anti American worker it makes a guy sick. Tell the guy who is loosing his home because of health care bills to pack it up and leave. Tell the family who is loosing their home because their job just got outsourced to pack it up and go find a cardboard box somewhere. You know what i like about this economy now? Its finally trickling down to the rich. Wait till the Walmarts, housing industry, Airlines etc.. of the world see their receipts in about three months. This is when the shit really hits the fan. All this money they were handed in the seven years of this disaster you and your fellow anti American worker party have given us will now start to disappear. They will start turning on one another so get the :0corn out cause this is gonna get good. When the middle class can't spend the rich don't get richer.
Watch how the Trumps of the world watch their casino's crumble. Then you can step in and come to their defense and blame it on Bill Clinton's policies. I will say this tho the one thing your boy Bush promised was to be the great uniter. Well this is one time he didn't lie. He united the middle class and the poor. Lovely.
 
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Cie

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Right i got it. If you are a billionaire its okay but if you are a working man its careless spending. You know what i think? Its either right for both or wrong for both not good for one and not the other. You neocon brainwashed middle class thinking people are so anti American worker it makes a guy sick. Tell the guy who is loosing his home because of health care bills to pack it up and leave. Tell the family who is loosing their home because their job just got outsourced to pack it up and go find a cardboard box somewhere. You know what i like about this economy now? Its finally trickling down to the rich. Wait till the Walmarts, housing industry, Airlines etc.. of the world see their receipts in about three months. This is when the shit really hits the fan. All this money they were handed in the seven years of this disaster you and your fellow anti American worker party have given us will now start to disappear. They will start turning on one another so get the :0corn out cause this is gonna get good. When the middle class can't spend the rich don't get richer.
Watch how the Trumps of the world watch their casino's crumble. Then you can step in and come to their defense and blame it on Bill Clinton's policies. I will say this tho the one thing your boy Bush promised was to be the great uniter. Well this is one time he didn't lie. He united the middle class and the poor. Lovely.


Not sure why I am a neocon in your eyes. Maybe because I voted Bush over Gore and over Kerry. I am a registered republican, but I am not snowed by either party. Both are loaded with self-serving scum. Neither party serves the public, they just operate in a manner which is in the best interests of their corporate supporters. You appear to be confused, but that is not surprising. You hate the right so much, that you take it personally the way an individual votes. That is very scary to me.

Again, I do not like government bailouts of working class americans, nor am I inclined to support the same for failing corporatons. In each case, however, there are examples where support is required. Are you saying you wanted Bear Stearns to fall and become a 10 year litigation nightmare for who gets their piece of the pie. Some form of bailout seems like it was essential due to the impact it would have had on other financial institutions. Of course, I've been wrong before.................
 

The Sponge

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Not sure why I am a neocon in your eyes. Maybe because I voted Bush over Gore and over Kerry. I am a registered republican, but I am not snowed by either party. Both are loaded with self-serving scum. Neither party serves the public, they just operate in a manner which is in the best interests of their corporate supporters. You appear to be confused, but that is not surprising. You hate the right so much, that you take it personally the way an individual votes. That is very scary to me.

Again, I do not like government bailouts of working class americans, nor am I inclined to support the same for failing corporatons. In each case, however, there are examples where support is required. Are you saying you wanted Bear Stearns to fall and become a 10 year litigation nightmare for who gets their piece of the pie. Some form of bailout seems like it was essential due to the impact it would have had on other financial institutions. Of course, I've been wrong before.................

Has nothing to do with hating the right and everything to do with my disdain for liars. Is it to much to expect the truth out of these people? I see Hillary spouting off about snipers and i shake my head and realize what little chance she had of getting my vote has all but dried up. I see McCain talking about Iran Arming Al Quida and i see a bigger dope then Bush. That sentence alone should disqualify him from being anywhere near the Whitehouse. This idiot is gonna get us all killed. In 2000 when McCain was running i would have had no problem with him winning. Now this new McCain, the suck up to Cheney an Rove to keep their god awful policies alive, has no shot at my vote either. This so called Maverick has turned into the biggest flip flopping sellout i have ever saw. The straight talker they call him now can't even stick to his own bills. In his 60's maybe but not now. Now i have Obama a guy who somehow got conned into voting for that disgrace of an energy bill that Cheney and the boy's crafted up. The one that gives tax breaks to the record profit making thieves. But Obama didn't get conned into this war. Showed some foresight. So now i have to vote for a charismatic well spoken black guy who is gonna get torched with the race card because the right wing slim machine is licking their chops. You know why they are licking their chops? Cause this stupid nation will fall for it again and again.
 

Spytheweb

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thanks for the softball,wocky....i didn`t "miss" service...in `73 the draft had ended...our military became all volunteer.....i registered,like everybody else,though....

i also chose not to become a fireman...but,i`m free to have an opinion on firemen...and thankfully,if my house catches fire,the fireman won`t say,"sorry,if you`d wanted your house protected,you should have become a fireman"....

see,that`s how it works,my slow friend...

i can comment on anyrthing i like...whether the iraq war was necessary...whether the war on terror is necessary.....

that `s like someone saying to you,"you have no right to oppose our military...have you ever been a "human shield"?

this is a typical liberal tactic to try an stifle debate...a stupid tactic at that...

thank you for proving that just like love,sometimes "dumb" is blind...:grins:


You had to get registered because it was the law, it still is the law. What if you were to set forest fires and some fireman were to die in them would you think, it's their fault because they volunteered to become fireman? Don't start the fires.

You can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts.
 

Tenzing

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um, wtf...??

um, wtf...??

Many democrats and others point to moral and ethical changes as a sign of the major problems if not the end times. Raising taxes to excess or placing excessive debts on the constituency can lead to financial chaos, increased poverty and political turmoil. This type of economic scenario requires countries to look outside their own country to finance their increased spending. Remember the Louisiana Purchase.

Wow. Do any of you do any independent research?? Ever hear of Sumner Redstone? The guy who runs the morally decrepit MTV VH1 BET, etc, who has had more of a hand in reducing our nations ability to effectively raise our children in a sex-, and violence-free atmosphere?? WELL HE'S A DEMOCRAT.

Sigh.

All of the worst economic downturns in our nations' history have come under non-Republican administrations, Democrats have a history of ruining our nation.

At the end of WWII, Democrats gained control of Congress, and didn't relinquish it for 45+ years. They had a Democrat in the presidency for many of those years. During any of the Congresses they could have done what ever they wanted. So, if you don't have nationalized health care, the Dems didn't give it to you. If you don't have a balanced budget, the Dems didn't give it to you. If you ain't got a job, cause the Unions have been viscerated so much that they then could not put up an earnest defense to steel mills closing down, moving to China, then selling us our steel at higher prices anyways, yup, you guessed it, the Dems didn't give you a job.

45+ years of continuous Democrat control of congress. Fact.
 

smurphy

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All of the worst economic downturns in our nations' history have come under non-Republican administrations, Democrats have a history of ruining our nation.
.

Wow. Quite a post, Texas.:mj07: :mj07:
 

Tenzing

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Sigh

Sigh

Wow. Quite a post, Texas.:mj07: :mj07:

Is that really your refutation?

Is there a mod on here?? I don't want to have to wade through "Texas" posts to get to on-thread material. Can we please ask smurph to be on-topic or remove his posting privileges?
 

Jabberwocky

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On topic? All you post over and over again is "45+ years of continuous Democrat control of congress. Fact."

Do you think that who controlled congress 20 years ago is the topic for every thread in this forum? Sigh.
 
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