new theory on who crashed 9/11's flight 93 in pa.

AR182

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WASHINGTON, Aug. 7 ? U.S. investigators now believe that a hijacker in the cockpit aboard United Airlines Flight 93 instructed terrorist-pilot Ziad Jarrah to crash the jetliner into a Pennsylvania field because of a passenger uprising in the cabin.

The FBI strenuously maintains that its analysis does not diminish the heroism of passengers who ? with the words ?Let?s roll? ? apparently rushed down the airliner?s narrow aisle to try to overtake the hijackers.

THIS THEORY, based on the government?s analysis of cockpit recordings, discounts the popular perception of insurgent passengers grappling with terrorists to seize the plane?s controls.
The government?s findings - laid out deep within the report on the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks that was sent to Congress last month - aim to resolve one of the enduring mysteries of the deadliest terror attacks in U.S. history: What happened in the final minutes aboard Flight 93?

The FBI strenuously maintains that its analysis does not diminish the heroism of passengers who - with the words ?Let?s roll? - apparently rushed down the airliner?s narrow aisle to try to overtake the hijackers.
President Bush and Attorney General John Ashcroft have regularly praised the courage of those aboard Flight 93, some of whom told family members by telephone they were planning to storm the cockpit.
?While no one will ever know exactly what transpired in the final minutes of Flight 93, every shred of evidence indicates this plane crashed because of the heroic actions of the passengers,? FBI spokeswoman Susan Whitson said Thursday.
Thirty-three passengers, seven crew members and the four hijackers died.
Citing transcripts of the still-secret cockpit recordings, FBI Director Robert Mueller told congressional investigators in a closed briefing last year that, minutes before Flight 93 hit the ground, one of the hijackers ?advised Jarrah to crash the plane and end the passengers? attempt to retake the airplane.?
Jarrah is thought to have been the terrorist-pilot because he was the only of the four hijackers aboard known to have a pilot?s license.

Mueller?s description was disclosed in a brief passage far into the 858-page report to Congress. Previous statements by FBI and other government officials have been ambiguous about what occurred in the cockpit.
Mueller?s explanation was based on the FBI?s efforts to decipher the cacophonous sounds on the cockpit recorder and produce a comprehensive transcript, said one official, speaking only on condition of anonymity.
The FBI is convinced it may never know for certain what transpired in those final moments, but Mueller represented the information as the FBI?s leading theory, this official said.
The same cockpit recording was played privately in April 2002 for family members of victims aboard Flight 93, and the FBI also provided them with its best effort at producing an understandable transcript.
Some family members indicated afterward they were led to believe that passengers used a food cart as a shield and successfully broke into the cockpit.
The FBI has been loath to publicly put forward a contradictory theory out of sensitivity to the families and because of uncertainty about what happened.

NEARLY INDECIPHERABLE
People who have heard the recording describe it as nearly indecipherable, containing static noises, cockpit alarms and wind interspersed with cries in English and Arabic. Near the end of the tape, sounds can be heard of breaking glass and crashing dishes - lending credence to the theory that passengers used the food cart to rush the jetliner?s narrow aisle.

Separately, the data recorder showed the plane?s wings rocking violently as the jet flew too low and too fast for safe flight.
Intelligence officials believe the likely target for Flight 93 was the White House, based on information from Abu Zubaydah, a senior al-Qaida terrorist leader in U.S. custody who is believed to have played a key role in organizing the Sept. 11 attacks.
Prosecutors have sought a U.S. judge?s permission to play recordings from Flight 93 during the terrorism trial of Zacarias Moussaoui, the only defendant in a U.S. case prosecutors have directly tied to the attacks. Moussaoui is accused of conspiring with the hijackers.
The government has said it can link Moussaoui to Jarrah, using a telephone number found on a business card recovered at the Shanksville, Pa., crash site. Prosecutors believe the card belonged to Jarrah and that Moussaoui had called the same number.
Moussaoui has acknowledged allegiance to Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida but says he was not involved in the attacks.
 

kosar

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I guess I really don't see the distinction here. Either way, the passengers actions led to this plane crashing in a field instead of possibly into the White House. Whether it was directly because the passengers interfered with the hijackers or because they were about to and the hijackers crashed it because of that. What's the difference, really?
 

BahamaMama

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yeah, like Matt said....... what the heck is the difference??? if it wasn't their *hands* that kept them from hitting the White House, it still sounds as if it were their *actions* ....... the only difference i can see....

had they been able to seize the controls, they *may* have been able to be talked down to a landing as seen on many airplane disaster movies.
 

gordmania

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this is the american government just trying use smoke and mirrors. blah blah report this issue blah blah
by the way we a re a corrupt government
 

kosar

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Gordmania, what?

gordmania said:
this is the american government just trying use smoke and mirrors. blah blah report this issue blah blah
by the way we a re a corrupt government
 

kosar

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Annie,

Yeah, practically, it would have made a difference as that thing was going down in that it was possible to be talked down, but as we both said, that didn't happen and it really doesn't matter if the heroic actions directly or indirectly probably saved lives on the ground and possibly saved us the image of the White House in flames.
 

BahamaMama

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Matt, BINGO.....the only thing that report says to me is that the *Let's Roll* crew were not given a chance by the *bad guy* crew to possibly save themselves, as well as other in the white house, on the ground, and on the crew of the plane
 

AR182

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i agree that it makes no difference who was actually flying the plane when it crashed. but since the fbi had to write a report of their findings, they might as well present the story as accurately as possible.
 

kosar

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AR, no doubt, man. And my comments weren't towards you or you posting this article at all. I guess that I just don't quite understand the point of this news release, or I suppose, the manpower used up by the FBI for the last 2 years to come up with this 'splitting hairs' report, when that effort could be much better utilized..
 
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StevieD

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They might have decided to crash the plane into the field rather than be taken alive by the passengers. If we got them alive maybe we would know more about what happened that day. God bless those passengers who diverted what would of been an even bigger disaster.
 

AR182

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kosar quote:"AR, no doubt, man. And my comments weren't towards you or you posting this article at all"

kosar, my friend i didn't think that your comments were directed to me. and it is no big deal if it was intended towards me. you, like everyone else are entitled to your/their opinion about a post.
 

ferdville

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Kosar and Stevie D - agree with your assessments.
Gordmania - huh? Can you elaborate?
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Does anyone know about how far the crash in Pn was from the white house? I know this is far fetched but I can't help but remember back to the day this was all coming about and I saw one report that said the wreckage was scattered over a mile and never seen another report on it afterwards,which would indicate a mid air explosion.. My 1st thoughts then were that we possibly were forced to shoot it down knowing its destination and that has always stuck in back of my mind.
However if distance to D.C. or heavily populated area prior was some time away I am sure with them knowing that passengers were confronting terrorist they would give them opt to seize control 1st which would shoot down that theory.
Can anyone shed any light on distance or time before reaching populated area from crash site?
 

auspice

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Per the article I just found it looks like the plane landed in Shanksville, Pa. Eyeballing it on mapquest, it looks to be about 150 miles from Washington D.C. Assuming a speed of 575 mph (per the article below) they were within 15-20 minutes or so of Washington.

______________________________________________

United Airlines flight 93
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

United Airlines flight 93 was one of the four planes hijacked as part of the September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack. It was the only one of the four planes that did not crash into a building.

The other three planes hijacked that day were American Airlines flight 11, United Airlines flight 175 and American Airlines flight 77.

The hijackers were Ziad Jarrah, Saeed Alghamdi, Ahmed Al Haznawi and Ahmed Alnami. (See also the complete list of hijackers.)

The plane was a Boeing 757 on a morning Newark Liberty International Airport (then Newark International Airport) near New York, New York to San Francisco International Airport near San Francisco, California(EWR-SFO) route. It had 182 seats but was only carrying 37 passengers (including the hijackers) and 7 crew members. Some early accounts say 38 passengers - this was apparently due to the fact that one passenger had booked two seats. The four hijackers were seated in first class.

At about 9:28 AM., when both towers of the World Trade Center had already been hit, flight controllers in Cleveland overheard some commotion from flight 93's cockpit: first screams and two cries of "Get out of here!", then a 40 second gap, then more screams and a further cry of "get out of here!" and then a voice saying something like "bomb on board". The flight controllers tried to contact the pilot and received no reply. At 9:35 AM the flight reversed direction and began flying eastwards at a low altitude. Air traffic controllers overheard an accented man saying "This is your captain. There is a bomb on board. We are returning to the airport." It is probable that the hijackers mistook the cockpit microphone for the public-address system. Shortly before 10 AM the plane again changed direction, this time south-east towards Washington.

It crashed into a reclaimed coal-mining area near Shanksville, Somerset County, Pennsylvania at 10:03 AM. Other accounts give 10:06 and 10:10 AM as the time of impact. According to eyewitness statements, the plane was upside down and swaying when it crashed nose-first into the field. It landed at an estimated speed of 575 miles per hour and left a crater about 35 metres deep. There were no survivors.

Authorities have since ruled that the deaths of the hijackers were suicides and that the deaths of the 40 others were homicides.
 

Turfgrass

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Semper Fidelis!

The Official Motto of the U.S. Marine Corps is Semper Fidelis, Latin
for "Always Faithful".

index.1.jpg
 

BobbyBlueChip

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DOGS THAT BARK said:
My 1st thoughts then were that we possibly were forced to shoot it down knowing its destination and that has always stuck in back of my mind.

That's the only scenario that has ever made any sense to me.
 

Stuman

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BahamaMama said:
had they been able to seize the controls, they *may* have been able to be talked down to a landing as seen on many airplane disaster movies.

Not sure I agree here...The radio had been turned off by the terrorists. None of the passengers would have known that the radio was off, and would have probably given up trying to "make it work". Even finding where to turn it on seems like a challenge in a cockpit of literally hundreds of switches and controls.


See the radio "on/off" switch anywhere?

.
F2000050401.jpg


What about here?

F2000050403.jpg


What frequency would you use?

F2000050407.jpg



On the other hand, they *may* have been able to take the controls and somehow figure out how to reduce the speed and take it down. But, with no navigational aids, finding a runway would be another nearly impossible challenge. With that said, I think they would have tried to belly it down on an interstate somewhere where the plane would have pratically exploded in flames anyway. They had a very small chance of survival in my opinion, even WITH controls in hand
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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Some nice photos there. Thanks Auspice If there was eyewitness that would rule out that theory but I can't ever remember any interviews with eye witnesses which the news would be right on top off I am sure. Can anyone else?
 
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