New Top 10

[RollTide72]

NCAA Football NEEDS a Playoff!

NCAA Football NEEDS a Playoff!

It's always fun to play hypotheticals, so riddle me this:

Current undefeateds are: Michigan, OSU, Rutgers and Boise State (Let's face it, RU and BSU could win out and would not play for the NC).

Current one loss teams are: USC, Arkansas, Florida, Notre Dame, West Virginia, Louisville, Wake Forest and Wisconsin.

Obviously Michigan/OSU is going to have a loss next Saturday.

What happens if...

Va. Tech beats Wake giving the Deacons 2 losses.
Cal beats USC giving the Trojans 2 losses.
LSU beats Arkansas giving the Hogs 2 losses.
USC beats Notre Dame giving the Irish 2 losses.
Arkansas beats Florida (SEC Championship) giving the Gators 2 losses.

Assuming Rutgers loses to WVA, the Mountaineers will have only 1 loss along with the UM/OSU loser and Wisconsin.

If OSU/UM is close, do they play each other in the NC game in January?

What about WVA finishing 11-1 or Wisconsin with an 11-1 record? WVA loses by 10 at Louisville in early November. Wisconsin loses at Michigan by 14 in late September.

I know it's a bunch of if's and could's... but I don't think it's that far fetched.

Thoughts?

 

[TouchdownJesus]

It is fun to do the "ifs" and "buts". I wanted a bunch of stuff to happen over the last few weeks for Notre Dame....and amazingly it all happened yesterday, except that SCAR can't make a FG or PAT.

We could have gone into next week with rankings...
1) Ohio St.
2) Michigan
3) USC
4) Notre Dame

Teams would still be left out. Still not fair...but you'd have a "playoff" with possible chance for others. The possible chance would involve Cal beating USC. Other than that, you've got Mich/OSU winner playing ND/USC winner.

To answer your question though....if too much stuff like what you propose happens....they'll just put Michigan/OhioSt rematch for the title.

 

[Mags]

Taximike

Taximike

I would agree with you that Rutgers should be higher than Wisky...

Granted, Michigan is much better than Louisville, but Rutgers did beat them at Home, and Wisconsin lost on the road to Michigan..

But those teams are very close in terms of ranking... personally, I think the matchup of those 2 teams would be a fun game to watch...

The way things are shaking out - how can it not be Ohio State - Michigan for the national title?

They are by far the 2 best out there - when reviewing the full years worth of work. Ohio State blew out Texas at Texas (although that win doesn't look as good as it did since TX lost last night) and Michigan blew out Notre Dame at Notre Dame.

How could you make a case for any other team BUT these teams?

I think these 2 will have such a large lead in the BCS, even after their game, that they will meet again for the national championship.

Which is the right answer - they are the 2 best teams - and the one that loses ,will have the "best" loss of any 1 loss team out there.

WHEN you receive your 1st loss shouldn't matter as much as WHO you lose to... but unfortunately, pollsters have short memories - and will remember more recent losses more than old losses and will penalize for them harshly...

It will be interesting....

 

[TouchdownJesus]

I don't necessarily mind a rematch for a nat'l title. But I don't like it to involve teams in the same conf. or if the matchup happened late in the season.

If a team doesn't win its conference, should it really be #2 in the nation with a one-game chance to be national champions? No.

If a team loses to a team in its last game, should it get to play the same team in a one-game shot for a national championship? Again, no.

Even if they are the best available team, with this format, thats their shot.

 

[Master Capper]

Number 2 doesnt matter at this point, as Ohio State will beat all of the teams listed above by at least 10 points. The only team that I think can beat OSU this year is LSU but due to either underachieving or having a bad HC they wont meet. Michigan will have to play the best defense they have played since the ND game to stay within ten of OSU in Columbus, but unlike ND, Mich will have to also defend the rush against OSU.

 

[TouchdownJesus]

Mags, I posted my last reply before I read what you wrote, although I sort of answered, in my opinion...

All I can say is that there is only one reason OhioSt/Michigan shouldn't play for the nat'l champ. Its because they are playing right now. Why play twice?

I know its not the same format, but lets say Colts/Pats are playing in the AFC champ. and their records are head/shoulders above NFC. That doesn't mean they play twice.

Also, how unfair for OhioSt to beat Michigan and then lose to them. Or vice versa.
If the teams split, shouldn't they be co-champions?

They both are 11-0. In their last 2 games, they do the exact same thing. It would HAVE to be co-champions, but it wouldn't be.
Only way this scenario would be fair would be to play "best of 3" which of course won't happen.

I understand the initial logic, but it would be horrible for college football.

 

[TouchdownJesus]

And with my logic, it would sort of suck to have a Michigan/NotreDame rematch.
But there is a slight difference. For one, they aren't in the same conference. For another, their game was 2 months ago. (3 1/2 months b/t games)

I'd love to see OhioSt/Notre Dame, but OhioSt would do what they did last year.

Long story, short...of course we need a playoff. This crap isn't one bit fair.

How easy would it be to have 16 teams....all conference division winners, play in a tourney? The first round would simply be conference championships. That leaves 8 teams for a playoff, everyone else goes to bowl games.

Its 100% fair in regards to the fact that you control your own destiny. If you go undefeated, you are guaranteed to be #1. If you win your division, you can go win it on the field.

Its so simple.

 

[wox11]

1. OHIO STATE
2. MICHIGAN
3. NOTRE DAME
4. FLORIDA
5. ARKANSAS
6. USC
7. RUTGERS
8. LSU
9. WISKY
10. BOISE STATE


I SEE OHIO ST. PLAYING NOTRE DAME IN THE BCS TITLE GAME :com:

 

[Mags]

Touchdown

Touchdown

Unfortunately, your theory falls apart by taking 16 conference champs...

Not all conferences are equal, and that changes from year to year....

If you took the 16 BEST teams, regardless of conference, I'd be OK with that.

Heck, if it was 8 SEC teams one year - and they had the best conference, I'd have no problem with that....

The problem this year, is that 3 of the 10 best (IMHO) are Big 10 teams, and the top 2 teams are by far and away Big 10 teams.

Again, I strongly disagree with you - WHEN you lose should not matter. Notre Dame got BLOWN OUT at home by Michigan. In my mind, they should have no chance at the NC game.

How could they EVER get in ahead of Michigan or Ohio State? I can't see any rational possibility where that would be appropriate.

If you can't defend your home field, you have no business in the NC game.

One possibly - adjusting for home field (Michigan on the road, Ohio State at home) - if Ohio State beats Michigan by, say 50, this weekend, then I could see the possibility of Notre Dame getting in.

Bottom line - both USC and Notre Dame had such bad losses that I don't feel either should get in. If you lose at home, or lose to someone not in the top 25, that should automatically eliminate you from consideration - unless you played a top 5 team and lost a close home game. That would be the only exception in my mind.

The national championship should be based on a whole season of work - not what you've done lately. In that case, they should take the team with the longest winning streak going into the final game - no matter how many losses they have.

But again, that's my opinion - I'm sure others will disagree :shrug:

 

[Mags]

wox11

wox11

How could you justify taking Notre Dame over Michigan, when Michigan beat Notre Dame by 26 in Notre Dame's house?

If that happens (Notre Dame leapfrogging Michigan), then it just shows further what a sham this whole system is (which we all know anyway)

 

[Sun Tzu]

When you lose shouldnt matter but it always has. Oddly, the bogus computers are the one thing that doenst take timing into consideration.

I agree that ND should not get a shot. Nothing personal, but they just shouldnt go ahead of Michigan or OSU loser.

I think they lose to SC anyway. We get USC-Ohio State title game and the Rose Bowl committee in tears.......because you know what they will do - ND-Mich rematch......then we get a big uproar.....

 

[Mags]

Why are the computers bogus?

Why are the computers bogus?

I always thought the computer rankings were much better than the human rankings, as it did a much better job of evaluating schedule and team strength?

The human polls suck - in no way should a 2 loss team be ahead of one loss teams - or unbeaten teams...

 

[wox11]

IM NOT JUSTIFYING IT ~ I THINK THE POLLS WILL.


OF COURSE IM ASSUMING OHIO ST. BEATS MICHIGAN & NOTRE DAME GOES INTO SO.CAL. & WINS.

ALSO I JUST DONT SEE IT POSSIBLE THAT A REMATCH IS POSSIBLE BETWEEN BUCKS & WOLVES.


HELL MAYBE ARKANSAS WILL JUMP UP THERE IF THEY RUN THE TABLE :shrug:

 

[Sun Tzu]

I always thought the computer rankings were much better than the human rankings, as it did a much better job of evaluating schedule and team strength?

The human polls suck - in no way should a 2 loss team be ahead of one loss teams - or unbeaten teams...

Computers have built in biases. hat Anderson ranking is the original Seattle Times poll that was designed to prove Washington was the best team 15 years ago. It has a horrible Pac 10 bias - it had Wazzu in the top 12 before last week.

Face it - how can the computers be accurate when they have such wide variances in ranking?

On your last point I wholly disagree - to me a poll is to determine who are the best teams in what order. LSU has 2 losses- and I have ZERO doubt they are better than unbeaten Boise or Rutgers. To do it your way, everyone should leave their conference, go independent and play directional schools, go 12-0 and claim they deserve a shot. Is that the system you would want?

 

[TouchdownJesus]

The reason my playoff system is great is b/c its fair.

When comparing conferences, you compare apples/oranges. It all changes year to year.

But I am giving a system that begins each year with every team knowing what they have to do to compete for nat'l title.

Also, its hard to compare conferences, but here's the deal. If you aren't #1 in your CONFERENCE, then guess what? You aren't # 1 in the NATION.

Finally, my system makes a win or a loss what its supposed to be. Who cares how much you win or lose by...

Notre Dame got demolished by Michigan. If they lost by a point, is that BETTER? No, they played, they lost.

 

[TouchdownJesus]

The thing that is going to suck is this. Every 1-loss team has been ranked at a certain number and after a loss, they drop. Usually drop anywhere from 3-8 spots, if not more.
Why should it be any different for Mich/OSU loser?
(I'm obviously biased to ND, but they are working in my examples, thats why I'm using them...)

Lets say OhioSt loses and ND beats USC (and FLA loses). Who gets the rematch with Michigan?

I do believe in head-to-head stuff, but if you have more than 2 one-loss teams...

Also, look at a team like Wake Forest. One PLAY away from being unbeaten. If unbeaten, would they be an outsider looking in? Not in my system.

They are a 1-loss team and have absolutely no chance. Just like Rutgers.

In my system, all you have to do is be better than 5 other teams, and you are a quarterfinalist....what more do you possibly want?

 

[TouchdownJesus]

BTW, I'd love to see Arkansas play OhioSt/Mich winner for title.
But, it would still suck to see yet another team leapfrog Notre Dame this year.

If you win, you should move up when other teams lose, or lets not have the polls.

Yeah, lets not have the polls.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Jesus in your system why would a team want to play in a good conference? Join teh WAC or something and be int e playoff every year. I guess we do away with OOC games because they are now irrelevant? Does ND just get a free pass every year because it is indepenent?

Yes tghe system sucks but that idea really isnt any better.

What should be done?

Cut out the shit DI teams. Have 48 teams as a super league. 6 8 team divisions, maintain biggest rivalry games, and madatory rotation of OOC games like NFL where division foers all playing same teams and every few years everyone has played everyone. Firts place teams and 1 wild card in each conference and tghere you have it...

 

[Sun Tzu]

The thing that is going to suck is this. Every 1-loss team has been ranked at a certain number and after a loss, they drop. Usually drop anywhere from 3-8 spots, if not more.
Why should it be any different for Mich/OSU loser?
(I'm obviously biased to ND, but they are working in my examples, thats why I'm using them...)

Lets say OhioSt loses and ND beats USC (and FLA loses). Who gets the rematch with Michigan?

I do believe in head-to-head stuff, but if you have more than 2 one-loss teams...

Also, look at a team like Wake Forest. One PLAY away from being unbeaten. If unbeaten, would they be an outsider looking in? Not in my system.

They are a 1-loss team and have absolutely no chance. Just like Rutgers.

In my system, all you have to do is be better than 5 other teams, and you are a quarterfinalist....what more do you possibly want?

Historically the few times 1 has played 2 very late in the year the drop has usually only been to 3....Tex Ark in 69, OU-Neb in 71, Fla-Fla St in 96.....a handful of others....the big drops are usuallu oversreactions but also there are more teams to justify falling behind earlier in the year...

loser of Mich-OSU I believe is better than any 1 loss team except MAYBE USC, and only USC deserves a title game more than the loser if it wins out....but yes back to back and rematches suck....but we have it in every other sport - should Georgetown have had to beat Nova for the 4th time in 85?

 

[TouchdownJesus]

Well, other sports have playoffs, so thats completely different.

I've posted my idea before. Basically, the NCAA should work with conferences to set it up the best way.

There would be no independents. Notre Dame could easily join the Big 10 or something like that.

Basically there would be 8 conferences, each with 2 divisions. 96 total teams (or close to that). NCAA, etc. could revamp a few conferences if necessary to make it more fair.