next stop : iran
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WR:
China is a very interesting observation. I think they are too busy making money and planning for the future to get involved in the US's mad scramble to secure oil.
Tolstoy said civilizations last about 1000 years. If one considers the Magna Carta the beginning of western civilization, our time is about up. Pretty soon my slanty eyed friends Chanman and Chopsticks kids are going to be running the show.
I guess my kids will be doing the laundry and working at American restaurants in Beijing. For all my degenerate gambler friends, I hope you can bet on ping pong.
Eddie
China is a very interesting observation. I think they are too busy making money and planning for the future to get involved in the US's mad scramble to secure oil.
Tolstoy said civilizations last about 1000 years. If one considers the Magna Carta the beginning of western civilization, our time is about up. Pretty soon my slanty eyed friends Chanman and Chopsticks kids are going to be running the show.
I guess my kids will be doing the laundry and working at American restaurants in Beijing. For all my degenerate gambler friends, I hope you can bet on ping pong.
Eddie
:wall: Shimatte! The americano is truly a worthy foe. Hopefully no one listens.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1198806,0005.htm
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1198806,0005.htm
For us to be in Iran our CIA had better improved over night. CIA has been off the mark so bad last 5 years they should have fired most of them. And the idiots that listen to them. Or didn't when they didn't like what they were hearing should go to.
China likes a little saber rattling now and then. However there having to much fun getting our jobs handed to them. Why start anything when you win doing nothing. Whats our trade deficit each month with China 2 billion. Talk about priorities jobs and trade. Nope Bush says it's S S. He learns slow.
China likes a little saber rattling now and then. However there having to much fun getting our jobs handed to them. Why start anything when you win doing nothing. Whats our trade deficit each month with China 2 billion. Talk about priorities jobs and trade. Nope Bush says it's S S. He learns slow.
Yeah, he's not that bright. He keeps on the massive failures in his cabinet, Rumsfeld, Rice(even promoted her), got rid of the only one with any sense in Powell.
And now it seems that his response to any questions about Iraq basically is that 'the people have spoken on 11/2, so that's a mandate to continue on this course'.
Could this arrogant idiot be any more clueless?
The only 'mandate' is from the homophobic rednecks in Ohio who came out to the polls in droves because of a gay marriage amendment being on the ballot. If not for them, he would have lost. That's fine, their votes count also, but stop with this crap about how since he won the election, that shows that his decisions in Iraq are endorsed by any sort of majority.
And now it seems that his response to any questions about Iraq basically is that 'the people have spoken on 11/2, so that's a mandate to continue on this course'.
Could this arrogant idiot be any more clueless?
The only 'mandate' is from the homophobic rednecks in Ohio who came out to the polls in droves because of a gay marriage amendment being on the ballot. If not for them, he would have lost. That's fine, their votes count also, but stop with this crap about how since he won the election, that shows that his decisions in Iraq are endorsed by any sort of majority.
Hindsight is always 20/20.
Hindsight is always 20/20.
Rep. Dick Gephardt, (D-Mo.) made the following statements on Meet the Press on Sept. 28th, 2003:
REP. GEPHARDT: (Showing a videotape from October 2, 2002) In our view, Iraq's use and continuing development of weapons of mass destruction, combined with efforts of terrorists to acquire such weapons pose a unique and dangerous threat to our national security. (End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: "A unique and dangerous threat." We have not found any such weapons. Were you wrong or misled?
REP. GEPHARDT: Tim, I didn't just take the president's word for this. I went out to the CIA three times. I talked to George Tenet personally. I talked to his top people. I talked to people that had been in the Clinton administration in their security effort. And I became convinced, from that, all of that, that he either had weapons of mass destruction or he had components of weapons or he had the ability to quickly make a lot of them and pass them to terrorists. Look, after 9/11, we're in a world, in my view, that we have to protect the American people from further acts of terrorism. That's my highest responsibility, that's the Congress' highest responsibility, and the president's. And I did what I thought was the right thing to do to protect our people from further acts of terrorism. We cannot have that happen in the United States, and I will always do that. --Rep. Dick Gephardt, 9/28/03 http://www.msnbc.com/news/973028.asp
Hillary Clinton
"[Hillary Clinton] stood by her vote last November for the congressional resolution authorizing the war, and carefully distanced herself from recent charges by Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D -Mass.) 'Based on what we knew and believed [about the Iraqi threat], it was merited,' she said of her vote. She said she consulted widely before that vote and found that U.S. intelligence 'from Bush I to Clinton to Bush II was consistent' in concluding that there was 'a continuing presence of biological and chemical weapons programs' in Iraq and that the Iraqis were seeking to develop a nuclear capacity. --Washington Post, 9/24/03 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2003Sep24.html
"Saddam's expulsion of weapons inspectors and 'the behavior' of his regime 'pointed to a continuing effort' to produce WMD, she added. The senator said she did her own 'due diligence' by attending classified briefings on Capitol Hill and at the White House and Pentagon and also by consulting national security officials from the Clinton administration whom she trusts. 'To a person, they all agreed with the consensus of the intelligence' that Saddam had WMD. --Weekly Standard, 9/24/03 --http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/157wjmhn.asp?ZoomFont=YES
Senator Ted Kennedy
"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed. ... There is clearly a threat from Iraq, and there is clearly a danger... We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction. ... In public hearings before the Senate Armed Services Committee in March, CIA Director George Tenet described Iraq as a threat but not as a proliferator, saying that Saddam Hussein 'is determined to thwart U.N. sanctions, press ahead with weapons of mass destruction, and resurrect the military force he had before the Gulf War.' That is unacceptable...
"If Saddam's regime and his very survival are threatened, then his view of his interests may be profoundly altered. He may decide he has nothing to lose by using weapons of mass destruction himself or by sharing them with terrorists. .. Nor can we rule out the possibility that Saddam would assault American forces with chemical or biological weapons. ... Clearly we must halt Saddam Hussein's quest for weapons of mass destruction." -- October 4, 2002
Kennedy also wrote at the time, "Let me say it plainly: I not only concede, but I am convinced that President Bush believes genuinely in the course he urges upon us. --9/27/03 http://kennedy.senate.gov/~kennedy/index_high.html So what happened, Ted?
John Kerry
Sen. John Kerry also was aware of the evidence and was convinced that Iraq had WMDs. The following is from a speech he gave at Georgetown University in January, 2003: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/l...123-kerry01.htm
"... we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. He miscalculated an eight-year war with Iran. He miscalculated the invasion of Kuwait. He miscalculated America's response to that act of naked aggression. He miscalculated the result of setting oil rigs on fire. He miscalculated the impact of sending scuds into Israel and trying to assassinate an American President. He miscalculated his own military strength. He miscalculated the Arab world's response to his misconduct. And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm.
"So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War. ... In U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441, the United Nations has now affirmed that Saddam Hussein must disarm or face the most serious consequences. Let me make it clear that the burden is resoundingly on Saddam Hussein to live up to the ceasefire agreement he signed and make clear to the world how he disposed of weapons he previously admitted to possessing."
Hindsight is always 20/20.
Rep. Dick Gephardt, (D-Mo.) made the following statements on Meet the Press on Sept. 28th, 2003:
REP. GEPHARDT: (Showing a videotape from October 2, 2002) In our view, Iraq's use and continuing development of weapons of mass destruction, combined with efforts of terrorists to acquire such weapons pose a unique and dangerous threat to our national security. (End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: "A unique and dangerous threat." We have not found any such weapons. Were you wrong or misled?
REP. GEPHARDT: Tim, I didn't just take the president's word for this. I went out to the CIA three times. I talked to George Tenet personally. I talked to his top people. I talked to people that had been in the Clinton administration in their security effort. And I became convinced, from that, all of that, that he either had weapons of mass destruction or he had components of weapons or he had the ability to quickly make a lot of them and pass them to terrorists. Look, after 9/11, we're in a world, in my view, that we have to protect the American people from further acts of terrorism. That's my highest responsibility, that's the Congress' highest responsibility, and the president's. And I did what I thought was the right thing to do to protect our people from further acts of terrorism. We cannot have that happen in the United States, and I will always do that. --Rep. Dick Gephardt, 9/28/03 http://www.msnbc.com/news/973028.asp
Hillary Clinton
"[Hillary Clinton] stood by her vote last November for the congressional resolution authorizing the war, and carefully distanced herself from recent charges by Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D -Mass.) 'Based on what we knew and believed [about the Iraqi threat], it was merited,' she said of her vote. She said she consulted widely before that vote and found that U.S. intelligence 'from Bush I to Clinton to Bush II was consistent' in concluding that there was 'a continuing presence of biological and chemical weapons programs' in Iraq and that the Iraqis were seeking to develop a nuclear capacity. --Washington Post, 9/24/03 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2003Sep24.html
"Saddam's expulsion of weapons inspectors and 'the behavior' of his regime 'pointed to a continuing effort' to produce WMD, she added. The senator said she did her own 'due diligence' by attending classified briefings on Capitol Hill and at the White House and Pentagon and also by consulting national security officials from the Clinton administration whom she trusts. 'To a person, they all agreed with the consensus of the intelligence' that Saddam had WMD. --Weekly Standard, 9/24/03 --http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/157wjmhn.asp?ZoomFont=YES
Senator Ted Kennedy
"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed. ... There is clearly a threat from Iraq, and there is clearly a danger... We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction. ... In public hearings before the Senate Armed Services Committee in March, CIA Director George Tenet described Iraq as a threat but not as a proliferator, saying that Saddam Hussein 'is determined to thwart U.N. sanctions, press ahead with weapons of mass destruction, and resurrect the military force he had before the Gulf War.' That is unacceptable...
"If Saddam's regime and his very survival are threatened, then his view of his interests may be profoundly altered. He may decide he has nothing to lose by using weapons of mass destruction himself or by sharing them with terrorists. .. Nor can we rule out the possibility that Saddam would assault American forces with chemical or biological weapons. ... Clearly we must halt Saddam Hussein's quest for weapons of mass destruction." -- October 4, 2002
Kennedy also wrote at the time, "Let me say it plainly: I not only concede, but I am convinced that President Bush believes genuinely in the course he urges upon us. --9/27/03 http://kennedy.senate.gov/~kennedy/index_high.html So what happened, Ted?
John Kerry
Sen. John Kerry also was aware of the evidence and was convinced that Iraq had WMDs. The following is from a speech he gave at Georgetown University in January, 2003: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/l...123-kerry01.htm
"... we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. He miscalculated an eight-year war with Iran. He miscalculated the invasion of Kuwait. He miscalculated America's response to that act of naked aggression. He miscalculated the result of setting oil rigs on fire. He miscalculated the impact of sending scuds into Israel and trying to assassinate an American President. He miscalculated his own military strength. He miscalculated the Arab world's response to his misconduct. And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm.
"So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War. ... In U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441, the United Nations has now affirmed that Saddam Hussein must disarm or face the most serious consequences. Let me make it clear that the burden is resoundingly on Saddam Hussein to live up to the ceasefire agreement he signed and make clear to the world how he disposed of weapons he previously admitted to possessing."
It all boils down to one simple thing. Horrible intelligence by an organization whose former director just received an elite medal from Dubya.
Also, I never understood the old 'well Hillary and Bill and Kerry and Ted thought the same thing' trick. These are the same people whose words and opinions are always scorned and ridiculed, yet when it's convenient we bust out with the 'they agreed, so there must have been something to it'. Funny.
Also, I never understood the old 'well Hillary and Bill and Kerry and Ted thought the same thing' trick. These are the same people whose words and opinions are always scorned and ridiculed, yet when it's convenient we bust out with the 'they agreed, so there must have been something to it'. Funny.
Not sure why Chan you listed ony these few. Are they a part of the right's disfunction team? Was I not right above CIA wrong last 5 years? Do you think we could trust CIA to have folks on the ground in Iran. Then believe what they say? If this CIA improved that fast in less then a year I would be surprised. I do believe the four mentioned above have gotten smarter. Im not sure if those in the adminastration have.
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We can't keep all the nations of the world down forever. Iran will have nukes - no doubt about it. Let's be realistic and look ahead for once. Them having nukes is not the end of the world. Them using nukes would be the end of theirs. If we use significant military action against them pre-emptively then we f**k ourselves.
There was once a time when we had diplomatic skills, actually lived on the same planet as people we didn't particularly get along with, kept an eye on them without attempting to take them over, did the hard work of having patience - and everyone was better off.
Don't let one 9-11 comprised of people from a country and led by a person from a family that we apparently will never admit that our administration is completely sold out to fool you.
"Fight the real enemy" - Sinead was ahead or her time
There was once a time when we had diplomatic skills, actually lived on the same planet as people we didn't particularly get along with, kept an eye on them without attempting to take them over, did the hard work of having patience - and everyone was better off.
Don't let one 9-11 comprised of people from a country and led by a person from a family that we apparently will never admit that our administration is completely sold out to fool you.
"Fight the real enemy" - Sinead was ahead or her time
smurphy said:
Shinehead O'Conner quotes :scared :scared :scared
think she also once said.....
"OH PRINCE, Fvck me hard in the ass. YES, your mustache is HOT!"
YOU GUYS MAKE RETARDS LOOK INTELLIGENT. NO MEAN INTENT MEANT TO RETARDS.
YOU GUYS ARE FLAKES. LIBERAL/LEFT SIDE RIGHT SIDE.
YOU GUYS ARE FLAKES. LIBERAL/LEFT SIDE RIGHT SIDE.
you sure you wanna call me that? i can see i'm not making my points or you simply don't read enough of my posts .....or more likely, you know nothing more than to quote your heros on fox when someone has a dissenting view. ...well, good luck with all that. ignorance is indeed bliss.Englishman said:
sinead quote obviously meant for humor - but pretty ironic how correct she was regarding the catholic church ...maybe not so much the pope, but certainly the church.
Hold the Boat, Flag the Bus, Stop the Music, etc.
Hold the Boat, Flag the Bus, Stop the Music, etc.
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11969986%5E2,00.html
I'm not trying to bring partisan politics into play, only trying to post info that some might find interesting. I understand why you'd think the former, but thats not my intent. (When others were calling for Clinton to be impeached, I was not name-calling and deriding his administration. I don't agree w/a lot of his actions/views, same as baby Bush, but I was not offensive- that I know about).
Look: this is where we're at. The Election is over. I'm not saying don't post or change anything...I'm just saying don't always read something into my views. I don't like the current Iraq quagmire any more than anyone else, but Bush did get the majority of the military vote and they are the ones in the trenchs-literally. I also don't agree w/Bush's stance against Gay Marriage, Immigration, and so on, but I can't change that- only post more information which is what I like about this forum.
I try not to gloat or be smug about someone's misfortune, but will post info to counter what I think is an erroneous argument.
(Anyone remember Feinstein verbally attacking ppl about wasting energy, not conserving the same?- when it was later brought to light that she had 3 gas guzzling SUV's- Escalades or the like- in her SF garage.)
Was Barbara Boxer was simply lying through her teeth today at Condoleezza Rice?s confirmation hearing, when she said the bill passed by Congress authorizing the war in Iraq was, ?WMD, period??
Here is the bill passed by both House and Senate, titled ?Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002.? (Available through the Library of Congress THOMAS site, by searching on its title.)
Whereas after the liberation of Kuwait in 1991, Iraq entered into a United Nations sponsored cease-fire agreement pursuant to which Iraq unequivocally agreed, among other things, to eliminate its nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons programs and the means to deliver and develop them, and to end its support for international terrorism;
...
Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolution of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;
...
Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its continuing hostility toward, and willingness to attack, the United States, including by attempting in 1993 to assassinate former President Bush and by firing on many thousands of occasions on United States and Coalition Armed Forces engaged in enforcing the resolutions of the United Nations Security Council;
Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;
Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens;
...
Whereas Congress has taken steps to pursue vigorously the war on terrorism through the provision of authorities and funding requested by the President to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations;
Whereas the President and Congress are determined to continue to take all appropriate actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations;
Whereas the President has authority under the Constitution to take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States, as Congress recognized in the joint resolution on Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40); and
Whereas it is in the national security interests of the United States to restore international peace and security to the Persian Gulf region: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This joint resolution may be cited as the `Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002?.
Hold the Boat, Flag the Bus, Stop the Music, etc.
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11969986%5E2,00.html
I'm not trying to bring partisan politics into play, only trying to post info that some might find interesting. I understand why you'd think the former, but thats not my intent. (When others were calling for Clinton to be impeached, I was not name-calling and deriding his administration. I don't agree w/a lot of his actions/views, same as baby Bush, but I was not offensive- that I know about).
Look: this is where we're at. The Election is over. I'm not saying don't post or change anything...I'm just saying don't always read something into my views. I don't like the current Iraq quagmire any more than anyone else, but Bush did get the majority of the military vote and they are the ones in the trenchs-literally. I also don't agree w/Bush's stance against Gay Marriage, Immigration, and so on, but I can't change that- only post more information which is what I like about this forum.
I try not to gloat or be smug about someone's misfortune, but will post info to counter what I think is an erroneous argument.
(Anyone remember Feinstein verbally attacking ppl about wasting energy, not conserving the same?- when it was later brought to light that she had 3 gas guzzling SUV's- Escalades or the like- in her SF garage.)
Was Barbara Boxer was simply lying through her teeth today at Condoleezza Rice?s confirmation hearing, when she said the bill passed by Congress authorizing the war in Iraq was, ?WMD, period??
Here is the bill passed by both House and Senate, titled ?Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002.? (Available through the Library of Congress THOMAS site, by searching on its title.)
Whereas after the liberation of Kuwait in 1991, Iraq entered into a United Nations sponsored cease-fire agreement pursuant to which Iraq unequivocally agreed, among other things, to eliminate its nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons programs and the means to deliver and develop them, and to end its support for international terrorism;
...
Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolution of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;
...
Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its continuing hostility toward, and willingness to attack, the United States, including by attempting in 1993 to assassinate former President Bush and by firing on many thousands of occasions on United States and Coalition Armed Forces engaged in enforcing the resolutions of the United Nations Security Council;
Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;
Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens;
...
Whereas Congress has taken steps to pursue vigorously the war on terrorism through the provision of authorities and funding requested by the President to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations;
Whereas the President and Congress are determined to continue to take all appropriate actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such persons or organizations;
Whereas the President has authority under the Constitution to take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States, as Congress recognized in the joint resolution on Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40); and
Whereas it is in the national security interests of the United States to restore international peace and security to the Persian Gulf region: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This joint resolution may be cited as the `Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002?.
WASHINGTON, Jan. 18 (UPI) -- Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., urged Europe to "get over" the fact President Bush was re-elected and work with the United States on common problems.
"I spent a little time in Europe recently, and I have one simple message: Get over it. Get over it. President Bush is our president for the next four years, so get over it and start to act in your interest, Europe," Biden said during the Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing to confirm U.S. Secretary of State nominee Condoleezza Rice. "But that requires us to engage in the hoped-for diplomacy from the gentle lady from Stanford."
Rice was provost of Stanford University in Palo Alto, Calif., before Bush tapped her to become national security adviser in 2000.
Rice has vowed to work with Europe and other U.S. allies on issues, including Iraq.
Trans-Atlantic relations were hurt following the U.S.-led decision to invade Iraq.
"I spent a little time in Europe recently, and I have one simple message: Get over it. Get over it. President Bush is our president for the next four years, so get over it and start to act in your interest, Europe," Biden said during the Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing to confirm U.S. Secretary of State nominee Condoleezza Rice. "But that requires us to engage in the hoped-for diplomacy from the gentle lady from Stanford."
Rice was provost of Stanford University in Palo Alto, Calif., before Bush tapped her to become national security adviser in 2000.
Rice has vowed to work with Europe and other U.S. allies on issues, including Iraq.
Trans-Atlantic relations were hurt following the U.S.-led decision to invade Iraq.
It's not just Europe. And no matter what was written. Remember Powell at the U N. It was about WMD. It's changed of course many times since they new they were wrong. Now there stuck.
