note to gmroz22

[buddy]

Buddy: I'll probably be put on the "Soon to be Banned Watchlist" for this post, but I have to throw something into your court. I mentioned before that I went to Catholic HS and University, and that my religious education is the reason I am not a believer. Can you read the following passage from the Bible below and comment on how it applies to your beliefs?

Quote:
If your brother, the son of your father or of your mother, or your son or daughter, or the spouse whom you embrace, or your most intimate friend, tries to secretlyseduce you saying, "Let us go and serve other gods," unknown to you or your ancestors before you, gods of the peoples surrounding you, whether near you or far away, anywhere throughout the world, you must not consent, you must not listen to him; you must show him no pity, you must not spare him or conceal his guilt. No, you must kill him, your hand must strike the first blow in putting him to death and the hands of the rest of the people following. You must stone him to death, since he has tried to divert you from Yahweh your God.....(Deuteronomy 13:7-11)

Before I get hit with it again, I don't hate Christianity and questioning religion, faith, and/or God doesn't make me the scum of the earth. I endured years of Bible classes and passages like this always left me saying "WTF?".

I will try to find an answer. I myself have wrestled with questions like this. I am going to Bible study tonight and will show this to my pastor. We are studying the Psalms. Come to think of it, I may just copy/paste your post and send an email to my pastor. It's safe to say he knows a little more about Scripture than yours truly. Is he infallible? Nope. He's human like the rest of us. He has a very busy schedule, but if he can find the time to reply, I assure you his response will be thought provoking.

One way or another, I will provide feedback. And by the way, thanks for asking.

 

[buddy]

Gmroz22,

buddy's quick opinion on your question - I THINK your question has something to do with both the Second and Sixth Commandment and a passage in Ecclesiastes.

The Second Commandment states, "I am the Lord Thy God. Thou shalt not have any other false gods before me".

The Sixth Commandment states, "Thou Shalt Not Kill".

The passage somewhere in Ecclesiastes states (and I'm not sure about this), "a time to kill".

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Thanks Buddy. I hope you know that the challenge I put out there was my own frustration and not intended to challenge you or your faith. I apologize, but I had to chime in.

If you don't mind, please ask your pastor how he handles these too. If the Book is divinely inspired/written, why are there so many contradictions. Is the Old Testament to be disregarded, since it recommends stoning others?

Thanks,

Gary

 

[buddy]

Gmroz22,

I had the chance to speak with my pastor last night. He said there are many questions like this in the bible (seemingly contradictons) and the answers are surely complicated and difficult. But he said there are no contradictions in the bible. I was not able to remember most of what he said. He was quoting scripture and to be honest, I forget (what good am I?). He also said there's a part in the bible where God even makes reference to killing innocent children. That kinda' freaked me out, but that's what he said.
Regarding killing, he said if a deranged person broke into your house and the lives of your wife and children were in imminent danger, what would you do?

 

[buddy]

Gmroz22,

I've been looking for another answer to your question ...my initial response was way off the mark. Sorry. I should know the bible better than I do. My first answer was embarrassing.

I THINK the answer to your question lies in Jesus telling the Pharisees that He fulfiilled all of the prophecies of the Old Testament and that now, He (Jesus) is the New Covenant.

In short, rather than being bound to the Mosaic Law (Moses + the ten commandments), Jesus is now all that is needed ("I am the way, the truth and the life").

I realize even this is a rough answer.

In terms of the scripture, I believe the answer is found in:

Luke 4: 16-21
Galatians 5: 3-6
Galatians 5:14

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Buddy, does that mean that the Old Testament is expendable?

 

[buddy]

http://www.victorshepherd.on.ca/Sermons/old-new%20testament.htm


5] I still haven't answered the question which precipitated this sermon; namely, "How does the old(er) testament differ from the new(er)?" I hinted at the answer several minutes ago. The newer testifies that Jesus Christ is the fulfilment of God's struggle with Israel for 1300 years. The despised, rejected servant of God is now become the Son of God himself whose suffering is the turning point of the world's restoration; the lamb offered in the temple is now become the self-offering of God himself; the incorporation of gentiles into the people of God fulfils Israel's vocation to be a light to the nations; the dawning of the Messianic Age appears as the contradiction of the Messianic Age is overturned (namely, the deadly, deadening power of death). The older testament is related to the newer as promise to fulfilment, as expectation to vindication, as longing to satisfaction.

At the same time God never gives us the fulfilment in such a way that we can say,"Now that we have the fulfilment, who needs the promise? Now that we have the vindication, who needs the expectation? Now that we have the Messiah, who needs Israel?" God will not permit this. For we don't "have" the Messiah; we gentile Christians have been brought to the Messiah of Israel.

Centuries ago the prophet Zechariah heard God say, "In those days ten men from the nations of every tongue shall take hold of the robe of a Jew, saying, 'Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you'." (Zechariah 8:23) As Christians you and I have taken hold of the robe of one Jew in particular. And of the robe of this one son of Israel we must never, ever let go.





F I N I S

Victor A. Shepherd



Mark 12:24
2 Timothy 3:15-16
Luke 13:4
Psalm 119:127,103
Hosea 11:9
Lamentations of Jeremiah 3:22-24
Romans 9:4
Ephesians 2:11
Zechariah 8:23
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gary,

If I have the chance after church, I will ask my pastor if the Old Testament is expendable.

 

[buddy]

It's early Sunday morning (6:48 AM EST) and I'm still pondering a better explanation.

To be honest, I don't think the Old Testament is expendable because, for one, it conains the prophecies that Jesus fulfilled (Kinda' like a "comparison + contrast" teaching method). Because Jesus is the New Covenant ("I am the way, the truth and the life."), do we disregard the entirety of the Old Testament? I truly don't know the answer to this. My knowledge of the bible is shameful.

I copied the following off of Google. I typed in "Is the Old Testament expendable?" This is the link I chose. I didn't read all the others. This one is very lengthy and verbose, but I did read through it and I think the author makes some very good points. Again, given the chance, I will ask my pastor the same question.

http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/article_story_moberly.html

 

[AR182]

Is the Old Testament to be disregarded, since it recommends stoning others?

Thanks,

Gary

gary...

you read that wrong...it says "getting stoned with others".....please re-read it.

 

[buddy]

Gmroz22,

I didn't have a chance to talk with the pastor. He was overwhelmed by others. The line was "Wal-mart / one cashier" long.

But I did speak with others not as popular as the pastor. They directed me to Galatians for an explanation of the differences between the Mosaic law and the New Covenant. They said the old testament was like our teacher telling us we needed a savior. I don't know if that helps or not.

Anyway, this is the link I came up with:

http://www.bibletrack.org/cgi-bin/bible.pl?incr=0&mo=9&dy=26

I think it's all worth reading, but for a quickened version, you may want to scroll down about an inch from the bottom. What you're looking for is a sentence in bold which reads:

Ok...now understand the whole process Paul has taken through so far: