Obama 'Won't Be Apologizing' for Bain Attacks on Romney

[StevieD]

Stevie - what I posted was fact. Our tax system is so heavily lopsided against the productive and hard working folks now.

Yes, the wheels fell off after Clinton. Some of that was Bush's fault. Some of it was 9/11. Some of it was the wars (which I didn't agree with). Some of it was the housing market - with people taking loans they had no business in taking. But those are all big events to deal with - and all bad things.

What bad thing did Clinton have happen, that he couldn't control, during his term? Oh yea, Monica Lewinsky, I guess.

But we are regressing - it is fact that our tax system is whacked, and needs to be leveled out to finally be fair to all.

A flat tax would do just that - same rate for all, no deductions. Or we could remove the income tax, and just use a VAT or consumption tax. The VAT would be better, IMHO, as it would entice people to save, instead of depending on the Gov't. Although, understandably, not everyone has much left over to save....

Obama has not touched the Bush tax cuts. Interesting that you mention the wars. I also have been against them from the beginning. But these are the first wars that the US has entered while cutting taxes? I guess Bush thought China would pay for it.

If we put more of a tax burden on the middle class and poor we will be shooting ourselves in the foot. Every penny these people spend on taxes is a penny they do not spend on TV's and refridgerators, which the so called job creaters have sent the jobs making them to China anyway.
There is a very simple fix to the job situation which neither party wants to do. Back in the day we had a tarriff on all incoming goods. This forced the corporarte bigwigs to produce their products in the US because it was cheaper.

 

[Mags]

Obama has not touched the Bush tax cuts. Interesting that you mention the wars. I also have been against them from the beginning. But these are the first wars that the US has entered while cutting taxes? I guess Bush thought China would pay for it.

If we put more of a tax burden on the middle class and poor we will be shooting ourselves in the foot. Every penny these people spend on taxes is a penny they do not spend on TV's and refridgerators, which the so called job creaters have sent the jobs making them to China anyway.
There is a very simple fix to the job situation which neither party wants to do. Back in the day we had a tarriff on all incoming goods. This forced the corporarte bigwigs to produce their products in the US because it was cheaper.

Stevie - TV's haven't been made in the US for over 20 years. Sony, Sharp, Samsung, Panasonic are all Asian brands and have been that way for many years.

Maybe you still have an RCA (which I think was American) or a Magnavox (which may have been too).

But those jobs haven't been pushed over to Asia - they have always been there. We tried and failed to make good TV's. Give credit where credit is due - Asia kicked our butt in the electronics sector.

Jobs from Apple has all their stuff made overseas. Now that is a company you can be legitimately upset with.....plus their 35% profit margin - which our government should certainly regulate and limit to 4% or less, like they are doing to other industries.

 

[StevieD]

Stevie - TV's haven't been made in the US for over 20 years. Sony, Sharp, Samsung, Panasonic are all Asian brands and have been that way for many years.

Maybe you still have an RCA (which I think was American) or a Magnavox (which may have been too).

But those jobs haven't been pushed over to Asia - they have always been there. We tried and failed to make good TV's. Give credit where credit is due - Asia kicked our butt in the electronics sector.

Jobs from Apple has all their stuff made overseas. Now that is a company you can be legitimately upset with.....plus their 35% profit margin - which our government should certainly regulate and limit to 4% or less, like they are doing to other industries.

I used to work for a company called NEC. They are a Japanese company. They wanted to get into the US market very bad. But we had a high tarriff. So our mission was to make a 100% American made PC. Which we did. Our PC was more US made than IBM. Oh, and yes this was more than 20 years ago. Putting a high tarriff on incoming goods would once again force the "Job Creaters" to create jobs in the US.

 

[Mags]

I used to work for a company called NEC. They are a Japanese company. They wanted to get into the US market very bad. But we had a high tarriff. So our mission was to make a 100% American made PC. Which we did. Our PC was more US made than IBM. Oh, and yes this was more than 20 years ago. Putting a high tarriff on incoming goods would once again force the "Job Creaters" to create jobs in the US.

Yea, it would do that. It would also increase prices for sneakers and electronics for Americans.

Worse yet, the last I looked, we were also an exporter to other countries. So, we'll basically put a wall around a country, with no goods coming in, and no goods going out? Do you really think that would work to our benefit?

And, if we are going to do that, then we certainly would need a wall to keep the illegals out too!

 

[StevieD]

Yes, I do think it would work because it worked for years and years before. Sure, prices would be higher but people would be working and could afford them.
What good does it do us if we are selling product in China, that is made in China for an American owned company that only a CEO and an executive staff sees benefits from?

 

[Mags]

Yes, I do think it would work because it worked for years and years before. Sure, prices would be higher but people would be working and could afford them.
What good does it do us if we are selling product in China, that is made in China for an American owned company that only a CEO and an executive staff sees benefits from?

StevieD - you must really have gotten screwed over at some point, the way you rail on CEO's, etc....

It is a bit short sighted to think they are the only ones that benefit... if the company would go out of business, everyone is out of a job.

I'm not a CEO, but I do know a bunch of them. They are the best and brightest in many cases (obviously not all, but most of them). Just like many professions (sports, entertainment, business, doctors, lawyers) the top guys in those fields make a lot of money - because they have a unique skill set that makes them valuable.

I'm not sure why the hate..... usually it is just jealousy, but I'm not going to presume that to be your case - you may have something different going on.

Just like I'm not jealous of the money that LeBron or Taylor Swift makes, I'm not jealous of the money that Mitt Romney made, or the president of GM, or Steve Jobs. Unique skills = unique (high) compensation. Good for them!

 

[StevieD]

StevieD - you must really have gotten screwed over at some point, the way you rail on CEO's, etc....

It is a bit short sighted to think they are the only ones that benefit... if the company would go out of business, everyone is out of a job.

I'm not a CEO, but I do know a bunch of them. They are the best and brightest in many cases (obviously not all, but most of them). Just like many professions (sports, entertainment, business, doctors, lawyers) the top guys in those fields make a lot of money - because they have a unique skill set that makes them valuable.

I'm not sure why the hate..... usually it is just jealousy, but I'm not going to presume that to be your case - you may have something different going on.

Just like I'm not jealous of the money that LeBron or Taylor Swift makes, I'm not jealous of the money that Mitt Romney made, or the president of GM, or Steve Jobs. Unique skills = unique (high) compensation. Good for them!

No need to get into personal attacks Mags, this was a very good discussion. If they send the jobs overseas then American workers are not benefiting, that is pretty easy to digest I would think. Take a look at the way the gap in CEO and average workers pay has increased in the last 20 years. If you are ok with that and do not think it is class warfare then so be it.
Again no need to attack me personally, lets leave that to Skulnuts or whatever that idiots name is.

 

[Mags]

No need to get into personal attacks Mags, this was a very good discussion. If they send the jobs overseas then American workers are not benefiting, that is pretty easy to digest I would think. Take a look at the way the gap in CEO and average workers pay has increased in the last 20 years. If you are ok with that and do not think it is class warfare then so be it.
Again no need to attack me personally, lets leave that to Skulnuts or whatever that idiots name is.

Stevie - wasn't trying to attack you - but if it did come accross that way, I apologize.

Yes, we lose some jobs overseas, but many more consumers benefit by lower prices (think Walmart). Not sure on the overall tradeoff, but an Ipad produced in the US might cost $1200 versus $600 for a China one. So there are offsets that must be looked at too.

Differentials in many businesses have grown over the years, between the very talented and less talented. Sports are a great example. So is entertainment. So is business.

I think the biggest issue in the US is that the jobs have changed to knowledge jobs from manufacturing. But many folks have not mentally stepped up and made that transition - and likely cannot. While there is still a need for someone that uses their back rather than their brain, the need is much much less than it used to be.

The benefits of a world economy are clear, but so are the downsides (cost of labor in other countries). Here is how I think of it: when America was still making things, much of it was done in the Rust Belt. Then those jobs dried up and people moved away looking for jobs to other parts of the country. That was when we did not have the global economy that we have today.

Now that we do, I guess folks have to take the next step - you gotta move to where the jobs are, that match up with your skill set. It sucks, but that is the clear result of globalization.

Of course, the entitlement society we have today has a lot to do with it. People "settle" for low paying jobs, because we do so much to supplement that with money from taxpayers. Instead, we need to build intelligence and work ethic back - which IMHO is clearly not what it once was in America. We keep backsliding to be more and more like Europe. While some folks may like that, many Americans are offended by that idea, me included.

Too many lazy people in our country that live off the government, and for those who are not lazy, they lack the skills, abilities or intelligence to be able to transform to the new work realities. Computers changed everything - especially efficiency.

While I do think labor's inability to adjust to todays needs is the problem, I certainly do not have a solution. Other than to move to where the jobs are - which many Americans would rather not do, when they can just live off the government here.

Which is why noone (other than those that are legitimately disabled or over 65) should receive any government benefits without contributing. If they are working less than 40 hours per week, then they can spend the difference working to clean up the streets and highways. Or help with child care. Or something to justify the handouts we are giving folks. If you can't sit at home all day to collect a check, or foodstamps, you just may be more motivated to go out and find a job.

OK, long diatribe. Sorry.

 

[StevieD]

Stevie - wasn't trying to attack you - but if it did come accross that way, I apologize.

Yes, we lose some jobs overseas, but many more consumers benefit by lower prices (think Walmart). Not sure on the overall tradeoff, but an Ipad produced in the US might cost $1200 versus $600 for a China one. So there are offsets that must be looked at too.

Differentials in many businesses have grown over the years, between the very talented and less talented. Sports are a great example. So is entertainment. So is business.

I think the biggest issue in the US is that the jobs have changed to knowledge jobs from manufacturing. But many folks have not mentally stepped up and made that transition - and likely cannot. While there is still a need for someone that uses their back rather than their brain, the need is much much less than it used to be.

The benefits of a world economy are clear, but so are the downsides (cost of labor in other countries). Here is how I think of it: when America was still making things, much of it was done in the Rust Belt. Then those jobs dried up and people moved away looking for jobs to other parts of the country. That was when we did not have the global economy that we have today.

Now that we do, I guess folks have to take the next step - you gotta move to where the jobs are, that match up with your skill set. It sucks, but that is the clear result of globalization.

Of course, the entitlement society we have today has a lot to do with it. People "settle" for low paying jobs, because we do so much to supplement that with money from taxpayers. Instead, we need to build intelligence and work ethic back - which IMHO is clearly not what it once was in America. We keep backsliding to be more and more like Europe. While some folks may like that, many Americans are offended by that idea, me included.

Too many lazy people in our country that live off the government, and for those who are not lazy, they lack the skills, abilities or intelligence to be able to transform to the new work realities. Computers changed everything - especially efficiency.

While I do think labor's inability to adjust to todays needs is the problem, I certainly do not have a solution. Other than to move to where the jobs are - which many Americans would rather not do, when they can just live off the government here.

Which is why noone (other than those that are legitimately disabled or over 65) should receive any government benefits without contributing. If they are working less than 40 hours per week, then they can spend the difference working to clean up the streets and highways. Or help with child care. Or something to justify the handouts we are giving folks. If you can't sit at home all day to collect a check, or foodstamps, you just may be more motivated to go out and find a job.

OK, long diatribe. Sorry.

Mags, not a long diatribe but a great post. I do not agree with some of yoour points but still a great post.

I do not see how American workers benefit by sending jobs overseas. I see that as a way of opening up new markets to sell their goods. On the surface that is not a bad thing but it does hurt the American worker.

This is the entire reasining behind the tariffs. If an IPad costs $600 from China vs $1200 for a USA made one then of course nobody would buy the USA made one. But this is not a new problem. It has always been a problem. And it has always been solved by evening the playing field with a tariff. Sorry for my spelling I have adhd and one of my problems is spelling.
Everyone is acting like this is a new problem and no one knows what to do about it.
Anyway, if we create jobs in America then we can get people off the welfare roles. Yes, that is a problem with people taking advantage of it but if more jobs were available it would be easier to get these people off the government tit. Off the Welfare roles, have them paying their medical bills. The ripple effect is endless. But we cannot begin to see a recovery until we bring the jobs back here.

 

[bleedingpurple]

MAGS:


I was just interested to see if you have children you claim as dependents? I thought that you did if memory serves me right.

You say that the government hands out these "freebies" to certain people. Many need the "freebies" and there are some who abuse it but that's not my point. 53 percent pay taxes it is said but I would say the people who have children are getting the "freebies." when you say make everything a flat tax then me being single with no children would be all for it if people with children quit getting Big Income Tax Returns at the the Ed of the year. We stop doing that and we would turn this around, I shouldn't pay More in taxes!

I realize that if we did this, the economy would take a much bigger hit, but it just bugs me that people assume these freebies are going to just free loaders when freebies are going to families of people who are working,

 

[The Sponge]

It is always the welfare queen when it comes to guys like Mavs. Never the huge huge huge white collar crime that gets handouts left and right. I love to see welfare abolished so we can see the next fake ginne up excuse. Unfortunately Mags doesn't realize that republicans love welfare too. They love the handouts people like the oil companies get while receiving record profits and they also love the welfare queen because guys like Mags falls for it over and over again. You would think when the Republicans had total control of everything they would have done something with Welfare but they know if they get rid of it they can't fool dopes like Mags into using that pathetic excuse over and over again. Mags did u ever think that the 600 ipad in China brings more profit to the owner than the 1200 in America? Even tho he can still make money at a price of 600 in America but profit before patriotism will always rule with most greedy people.

 

[StevieD]

Another thing on taxes. The Public Transit System in Boston just went up. They raised the fares to what amounts to $50.00 a month to some people. Now if at the end of the month you had $100 bucks left after paying your bills now you only have 50. That is after tax out of your pocket money. Of course if you make a million dollars a year chances are you do not take the subway to work, but lets say you did. And at the end of the month, after expenses you have $10,000 left. Who gets hits harder, the top 1 percent or the other 99% that ride the rails?
To say 53 percent pay no taxes is not really the truth. If you count fees. And fees hit the little guy much harder than it hits the top 1%.

 

[Mags]

MAGS:


I was just interested to see if you have children you claim as dependents? I thought that you did if memory serves me right.

You say that the government hands out these "freebies" to certain people. Many need the "freebies" and there are some who abuse it but that's not my point. 53 percent pay taxes it is said but I would say the people who have children are getting the "freebies." when you say make everything a flat tax then me being single with no children would be all for it if people with children quit getting Big Income Tax Returns at the the Ed of the year. We stop doing that and we would turn this around, I shouldn't pay More in taxes!

I realize that if we did this, the economy would take a much bigger hit, but it just bugs me that people assume these freebies are going to just free loaders when freebies are going to families of people who are working,

Agreed.... I'll admit, I don't know anybody that doesn't claim their children as dependants if they legally can do so.

But I can certainly see the logic in not giving a tax deduction for having a kid. Likewise, I can see the logic in not giving a deduction for buying a house, or buying an electric car also.

 

[Mags]

It is always the welfare queen when it comes to guys like Mavs. Never the huge huge huge white collar crime that gets handouts left and right. I love to see welfare abolished so we can see the next fake ginne up excuse. Unfortunately Mags doesn't realize that republicans love welfare too. They love the handouts people like the oil companies get while receiving record profits and they also love the welfare queen because guys like Mags falls for it over and over again. You would think when the Republicans had total control of everything they would have done something with Welfare but they know if they get rid of it they can't fool dopes like Mags into using that pathetic excuse over and over again. Mags did u ever think that the 600 ipad in China brings more profit to the owner than the 1200 in America? Even tho he can still make money at a price of 600 in America but profit before patriotism will always rule with most greedy people.

Sponge.. a lot of rambling, and appears to be a lot of anger. I get it - it is always easy to rail on people that are doing well - and possibly better than yourself. I just believe using great people as inspiration, rather than critizing them for it.

Sure, there is white collar crime. Never condoned it, or said there wasn't.

Here is an example of someone I know (kind of) who is working the system: my buddy's exwife got a big payout when they divorced. Not sure of the number - think it was $500K. She then said "I am going to basically retire and live off this" - she was 32 at the time.

Well, it didn't take long for her to realize that wouldn't work. So now she has gotten it figured out: works for the number of weeks it takes to ensure she'd get unemployment (I'm not sure what that is), and then gets herself terminated somehow. Then collects unemployment. When that runs out, she gets a new job and does it all over again.

Our government systems are so poorly managed that it doesn't take much intelligence to game the system and never work - but yet be able to eat and live with no responsibility.

It's no wonder that the Rasmussen poll today said 83% of Americans feel we should have work/hour requirements to be able to receive welfare.

 

[Mags]

Another thing on taxes. The Public Transit System in Boston just went up. They raised the fares to what amounts to $50.00 a month to some people. Now if at the end of the month you had $100 bucks left after paying your bills now you only have 50. That is after tax out of your pocket money. Of course if you make a million dollars a year chances are you do not take the subway to work, but lets say you did. And at the end of the month, after expenses you have $10,000 left. Who gets hits harder, the top 1 percent or the other 99% that ride the rails?
To say 53 percent pay no taxes is not really the truth. If you count fees. And fees hit the little guy much harder than it hits the top 1%.

Steve - I said 53% pay Federal Income Tax. 47% pay no FIT.

And, the US has the most progressive tax system in the world - according to the OECD, which is a non partisan think tank. The last thing we need is a more progressive tax system.

Your example did make me laugh (in a good way).. .your millionare example - if he had $10K a month left over, means he's spending $73K a month (not including taxes of course)... nice life for him!

Here is another way to look at your subway example (FYI - I love Boston, but never have ridden the subway there)... The rider may now be paying $50.00 to ride the subway each month, but the true cost of that experience may be $150.00 per month, with tax payers subsidizing the rest of the cost. So, the rider is getting a 66% discount over the true cost. Seems like a pretty good deal when looking at it that way, doesn't it?

 

[StevieD]

Steve - I said 53% pay Federal Income Tax. 47% pay no FIT.

And, the US has the most progressive tax system in the world - according to the OECD, which is a non partisan think tank. The last thing we need is a more progressive tax system.

Your example did make me laugh (in a good way).. .your millionare example - if he had $10K a month left over, means he's spending $73K a month (not including taxes of course)... nice life for him!

Here is another way to look at your subway example (FYI - I love Boston, but never have ridden the subway there)... The rider may now be paying $50.00 to ride the subway each month, but the true cost of that experience may be $150.00 per month, with tax payers subsidizing the rest of the cost. So, the rider is getting a 66% discount over the true cost. Seems like a pretty good deal when looking at it that way, doesn't it?

Mags, I must have written it wrong. They raised the fare by $50 a month. Not that the fare is $50 a month. It costs, depending where you live, around $200 a month now to get to work. As for laughing at my millioaire example I think you get the point that he is not hurt as much as the guy taking the rails to work for him. As for it being subsidized sure it is. So is the rent the corporation for pays for putting its plant in Boston.
But that is all Bullshit crap anyway.
I laughed at your the friend in your story.
I have a friend. Owns his own business. Air Conditioning and Refridge. The guy does good. So good he bought a little 2 engine airplane. Well, the business bought it. So he can fly to these seminars and sales meetings. Of course he uses it 90 percent of the time for fun. His business has never shown a profit. He pays for everything with a company check or credit card. Nice life if you can get it.
This is just me but I would rather be him then the poor SOB living on food stamps. But they are both taking advantage of the system.

 

[Mags]

Mags, I must have written it wrong. They raised the fare by $50 a month. Not that the fare is $50 a month. It costs, depending where you live, around $200 a month now to get to work. As for laughing at my millioaire example I think you get the point that he is not hurt as much as the guy taking the rails to work for him. As for it being subsidized sure it is. So is the rent the corporation for pays for putting its plant in Boston.
But that is all Bullshit crap anyway.
I laughed at your the friend in your story.
I have a friend. Owns his own business. Air Conditioning and Refridge. The guy does good. So good he bought a little 2 engine airplane. Well, the business bought it. So he can fly to these seminars and sales meetings. Of course he uses it 90 percent of the time for fun. His business has never shown a profit. He pays for everything with a company check or credit card. Nice life if you can get it.
This is just me but I would rather be him then the poor SOB living on food stamps. But they are both taking advantage of the system.

Agreed - there are some guys who take advantage when they run their own business. It would be nice to see those guys get audited..... Not paying legitimate tax that is owed (due to bs deductions) isn't any better or worse than those that are defrauding the system at the other end of the income scale...

 

[Duff Miver]

And, the US has the most progressive tax system in the world - according to the OECD, which is a non partisan think tank. The last thing we need is a more progressive tax system.

Our present tax system has been getting less progressive since 1940.

In the 1950s and 60s, it was far, far more progressive than now.

And what happened in the 1950s and 60s? Was business expansion stifled? Did the middle class go downhill?

Of course not. It was a time of great advance in our standard of living and the creation of new businesses.

Sorry to confuse your bogus economic theory with facts, Maggot.

Facts talk, bullshit walks.

 

[Mags]

Our present tax system has been getting less progressive since 1940.

In the 1950s and 60s, it was far, far more progressive than now.

And what happened in the 1950s and 60s? Was business expansion stifled? Did the middle class go downhill?

Of course not. It was a time of great advance in our standard of living and the creation of new businesses.

Sorry to confuse your bogus economic theory with facts, Maggot.

Facts talk, bullshit walks.

Ah, the great dumba** speaks. We should all be honored. This thread, which was good, now can go in the dumpster, with the Duffer - who nobody likes - now involved.

I posted a fact. As of today.

You are posting thoughts (strange ones) - that of course have a lot of contributing factors, such as the huge growth period coming out of war.

AS OF TODAY, the US has the most progressive tax system in the world. Which is BS. We need to level it out, and make folks like you actually pay some tax, instead of freeloading.

We are not France, nor do we want to be. Even if we could eat dinner at a flower shop like they apparently do in France, we choose not to.

 

[The Sponge]

Sponge.. a lot of rambling, and appears to be a lot of anger. I get it - it is always easy to rail on people that are doing well - and possibly better than yourself. I just believe using great people as inspiration, rather than critizing them for it.

Sure, there is white collar crime. Never condoned it, or said there wasn't.

Here is an example of someone I know (kind of) who is working the system: my buddy's exwife got a big payout when they divorced. Not sure of the number - think it was $500K. She then said "I am going to basically retire and live off this" - she was 32 at the time.

Well, it didn't take long for her to realize that wouldn't work. So now she has gotten it figured out: works for the number of weeks it takes to ensure she'd get unemployment (I'm not sure what that is), and then gets herself terminated somehow. Then collects unemployment. When that runs out, she gets a new job and does it all over again.

Our government systems are so poorly managed that it doesn't take much intelligence to game the system and never work - but yet be able to eat and live with no responsibility.

It's no wonder that the Rasmussen poll today said 83% of Americans feel we should have work/hour requirements to be able to receive welfare.

Okay im tickled pink that u finally realized that white collar crime does exist. It took years for you to finally admit this so at least we may be able to move forward. As for yourbuddy's ex wife? What i remembered about unemployment is that u have to work for a year or maybe a year and a quarter to even have a chance to receive it. Rules may have changed cause im talking about ten 15 years ago. So if your friend is doing this it isn't an easy thing to do. If she is doing this the people who hire her should be able to figure her out and not hire her at all. On another note im really proud of you that ur rebuttal didn't have nonsense in it like i collect Welfare and all that other bull u righties like to toss out there. I know u were biting ur tongue but u wrote a whole rebuttal without doing it. You did fall back on how jealous i am with people who succeed which of course is a lot of horseshit. I have problems with the people who are rich but shouldn't be. People who have gamed the system at the misery of others. These assholes give people who work hard and are rich, a really bad name.