ObamaCare

[azbob]

...and who is in charge of managing compliance with ObamaCare...the IRS.

IRS targeting citizens based on political viewpoint...CHECK

Holder's DOJ spying on reporters...CHECK

Benghazi talking points written to deceive the American people based on impact on the election...CHECK

At least we are not supplying guns to Mexican narco rebels, wasting taxpayer money on failed private businesses or losing fulltime jobs due to the provisions of ObamaCare.

Let's let the government take over healthcare...anyone think that is a good idea now?

 

[Duff Miver]

.

Let's let the government take over healthcare...anyone think that is a good idea now?

:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

Actually te g'mint already controls 35-40% of healthcare - Medicare, Medicaid and Veterans hospitals.

And they provide healthcare at a far lower cost than do for-profit insurers without turning down those with pre-existing conditions.

:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

So, yes. G'mint control of healthcare works both efficiently and inexpensively.

:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

And as for the IRS investigating the teabaggers and others....well, if they really are charitable non-profit, and non-political, they've got nothing to worry about.

:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

Isn't that Bush's quote : "If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about".

:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

 

[ssd]

Inexpensively and far lower cost?

Too whom?


Seriously?

$732 Billion dollars allocated to Medicare and Medicaid.
21% of the federal budget that is already over $1T in debt each year. I guess you could also tack the interest payments for that portion of the debt to the bill as well.

Take a look at Europe, Muff. The entire EU system is falling apart......for some reason, progressive Americans want the same here? Why? It makes no sense to me. Europe is confiscating deposits at banks to meet capital requirements. It was the canary in the coalmine in Cyprus.....it will happen elsewhere - and you think our federal gov't is efficient?

It is laughable.

 

[Duff Miver]

Inexpensively and far lower cost?

Too whom?



It is laughable.

Yes, it is laughable.

Three years ago I had my gall bladder removed. The bill was $33,000. That's what an uninsured individual would have to pay. A typical insurance company would have negotiated that down to $15,000

Medicare offered $6600 which the hospital gladly accepted.

So for whom is the cost less? For everyone on g'mint insurance. That is, everyone could be insured by Medicare for far less than the cost of private insurance.

It's called "buying power" and "non-profit".

Now YOU stop being dense.

 

[Duff Miver]

Take a look at Europe, Muff. The entire EU system is falling apart.

As regards health care, no it is not "falling apart". If you look at the advanced countries: Britain, France, Germany, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden the Netherlands, etc....you will find that health care is better than in the USA. That's a fact as measured by infant mortality and life expectancy...facts. And it costs less per citizen than we pay. Fact. You can, as they say, look it up.


Our for-profit health care, and for-profit insurance sucks. And you know it.

Stop being dense.

 

[Duff Miver]

Here ya' go, ssd -

Life expectancy at birth (years)

Overall

Male

Female


World average 67.2 65.0 69.5
1 Japan 82.6 79.0 86.1
2 Hong Kong 82.2 79.4 85.1
3 Iceland 81.8 80.2 83.3
4 Switzerland 81.7 79.0 84.2
5 Australia 81.2 78.9 83.6
6 Spain 80.9 77.7 84.2
7 Sweden 80.9 78.7 83.0
8 Israel 80.7 78.5 82.8
9 Macau 80.7 78.5 82.8
10 France (metropolitan) 80.7 77.1 84.1
11 Canada 80.7 78.3 82.9
12 Italy 80.5 77.5 83.5
13 New Zealand 80.2 78.2 82.2
14 Norway 80.2 77.8 82.5
15 Singapore 80.0 78.0 81.9
16 Austria 79.8 76.9 82.6
17 Netherlands 79.8 77.5 81.9
18 Martinique 79.5 76.5 82.3
19 Greece 79.5 77.1 81.9
20 Belgium 79.4 76.5 82.3
21 Malta 79.4 77.3 81.3
22 United Kingdom 79.4 77.2 81.6
23 Germany 79.4 76.5 82.1
24 Virgin Islands 79.4 75.5 83.3
25 Finland 79.3 76.1 82.4
26 Guadeloupe 79.2 76.0 82.2
27 Channel Islands Jersey Guernsey 79.0 76.6 81.5
28 Cyprus 79.0 76.5 81.6
29 Ireland 78.9 76.5 81.3
30 Costa Rica 78.8 76.5 81.2
31 Puerto Rico 78.7 74.7 82.7
32 Luxembourg 78.7 75.7 81.6
33 United Arab Emirates 78.7 77.2 81.5
34 South Korea 78.6 75.0 82.2
35 Chile 78.6 75.5 81.5
36 Denmark 78.3 76.0 80.6
37 Cuba 78.3 76.2 80.4
38 United States 78.2 75.6 80.8

 

[ssd]

And from those charts, I am supposed to extrapolate what exactly?

That healthcare is more expensive and less effective in the US than other parts of the world?

And you want to blame that solely on private hospitals and insurance companies? When, as you already point out, the Gov't already manages at least 40% of it? And, the Affordable Healthcare Act, that the CBO initially said would cut deficits has already been shown by the CBO to create more deficits? Max Baucus, who was once one of the lead advocates FOR the healthcare act is now quoted as saying, "it will be a trainwreck" and is not even seeking re-election.

Please compare apples to apples and fully investigate how all those other systems are run, including the regulations on malpractice and care before you throw out a bunch of meaningless, garbage charts.

There is almost nothing that a government can do more efficiently or effectively than a private company.


And, if US healthcare is so bad, why does the hotel at the Cleveland Clinic constantly have the top floors completely rented out to sheiks from the Middle East who fly into Cleveland, fricking CLEVELAND OHIO, for healthcare?

Why are they not going to Luxembourg or Chile or Argentina for the best care? Your 'charts' show that those are the best places.

 

[Duff Miver]

And from those charts, I am supposed to extrapolate what exactly?

That healthcare is more expensive and less effective in the US than other parts of the world?

And you want to blame that solely on private hospitals and insurance companies? When, as you already point out, the Gov't already manages at least 40% of it? And, the Affordable Healthcare Act, that the CBO initially said would cut deficits has already been shown by the CBO to create more deficits? Max Baucus, who was once one of the lead advocates FOR the healthcare act is now quoted as saying, "it will be a trainwreck" and is not even seeking re-election.

Please compare apples to apples and fully investigate how all those other systems are run, including the regulations on malpractice and care before you throw out a bunch of meaningless, garbage charts.

There is almost nothing that a government can do more efficiently or effectively than a private company.


And, if US healthcare is so bad, why does the hotel at the Cleveland Clinic constantly have the top floors completely rented out to sheiks from the Middle East who fly into Cleveland, fricking CLEVELAND OHIO, for healthcare?

Why are they not going to Luxembourg or Chile or Argentina for the best care? Your 'charts' show that those are the best places.

1. You're supposed to "extrapolate" facts; Think cost/benefit.

2. JFC! Isn't a matter of budget deficit, it's a question of where do we spend our money. You are aware that we spend more on the military than ALL OTHER NATIONS COMBINED?

3. Those charts are not meaningless. They are FACTS. What's your problem with FACTS?

4. They aren't ALL going to the Cleveland Clinic. They are going moreso to the Western European countries.

I give up, ssd. You're have taken a big bite of the teaparty horseapple, pronounced it delicious, and, jerking off to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, have turned yourself into Skulnick's idiot brother.

You prefer sloganeering to truth. You choose to confuse fact with innuendo and fiction.

Goodbye, and get lost.

I will not respond to an idiot, especially an intentional idiot.

 

[azbob]

"Actually te g'mint already controls 35-40% of healthcare - Medicare, Medicaid and Veterans hospitals."

This is laughable if not for the fact that it is so ignorant. The government doesn't control 35%-40% of healthcare as, other than the VA, the government doesn't have a thing to do with providing care in a doctor's office or anywhere else other than their usual role of trying to regulate something they don't understand and offering payment incentives that guarantee the wrong care is reinforced by both the dollars and the threat of lawsuit.

The worse thing I could do to someone is tell them that they now have to rely on the VA for their healthcare. Look up their mortaility rates and access performance.

Meanwhile, the organization charged with illicit behavior in spying on reporters is now investigating the IRS...charged with illicit behavior in targeting organizations for political reasons.

I was hoping that even people blinded by their narrow beliefs could identify a problem here...guess I should have known better. Just think about why your reaction is different because The Obama is President versus Bush...time to wake up.

 

[Jaxx]

Now YOU stop being dense.

The government can do nothing right and you think its a good idea for them to take over healthcare. Dense

:mj07:

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

The government can do nothing right and you think its a good idea for them to take over healthcare. Dense

:mj07:

jaxx. You aren't allowed to call anyone else dense. Not even your mom.

 

[ssd]

Ok, Duff.

You win.

I will overlook the US National Deficit because it is irrelevant and really shows how efficient and effective the Federal Gov't really is.


You can go hide in a corner and continue to utter the mantra of "more government is good".

I refuse to drink your Kool-Aid.

If Government spending created jobs and wealth and was the ultimate ambrosia, the USA would be a paradise.

As it is, the US is the largest debtor nation in the history of the civilized world and you think the government can manage healthcare more efficiently than the private sector.

I do not know why you always have to resort to 3rd-grade name calling. I guess it is a tactic you resort to when you are nervous or wrong?

I don't know and don't really care.

I just hope your tired ass lives long enough to see your Utopian model of Socialism come crashing down.
The clock is ticking.....will it be Europe or Japan that implodes first?
They can only kick the can so far now, as the mountain of debt they have packed into it has really loaded that sucker down and with each kick, it travels less.

Carry on with the infantile name-calling. It is worthless trying to converse with you as you always have to drag it into the gutter.

As for travel to Western Europe for health v USA ( CLeveland CLinic) - doubtful. Clinic hotel is always booked - mainly with foreigners and many times the tarmac at Hopkins is screwed up by foreigners' private jets. But I am sure you have an irrelevant chart somewhere you can post that shows I am wrong. Good friend of mine from London comes to US for dentistry as he says the dentists in England all suck and most he knows hate the National Health Service there.....interminable waits and poor care.