Scott4USC said:
A USC student supporting capital punishment - that's probably the most shocking post yet in this thread.
Oh my.............
- Thread starter Sun Tzu
- Start date
A USC student supporting capital punishment - that's probably the most shocking post yet in this thread.
In defense of my UW Huskies
In defense of my UW Huskies
The Huskies lost the 2nd best coach in the conference, with very little time to adjust b4 the beginning of the season. Would have to think that affected the Huskies alot more than OSU's loss of Clarett, but you should know how much your program was hurt by that one lost player.
OSU played the Huskies in their first game w the new coach in Columbus. Huskies played poorly on the road all yr -- L's @AZ, UCLA & Cal also. But OSU lost @ Wisconsin (who lost at home to UNLV) & Michigan & nearly lost to Penn St on the road. I would compare UW favorably w Wisky & Penn St. Hard to say the Buckeyes would have beaten the Huskies in Seattle, but they definitely won in Columbus. Remember the last team to beat Miami before OSU was the Huskies in Seattle.
To say the Huskies sucked is a little strong. They definitely underachieved talent wise. Looking at the landscape of the Big 10, I see Penn St, Indiana, Illinois, NW, MSU & Wisky all as perennial also rans in that conference. Not hard to tell why OSU has a good record over the last 3 yrs, when you add the home games OOC v usually subpar teams. I respect OSU's accomplishments over that period, but also dont think they were the best team in the country when they were selected as the national champs. Don't believe Miami or OSU belonged in that game, cause the confs they are in were down that year. That was proven, in my opinion, by SC's dismantling of Iowa, who was undefeated in the Big 10 & thought by many (including me) to be a better representative than OSU as conf champ before the bowl games.
In defense of my UW Huskies
The Huskies lost the 2nd best coach in the conference, with very little time to adjust b4 the beginning of the season. Would have to think that affected the Huskies alot more than OSU's loss of Clarett, but you should know how much your program was hurt by that one lost player.
OSU played the Huskies in their first game w the new coach in Columbus. Huskies played poorly on the road all yr -- L's @AZ, UCLA & Cal also. But OSU lost @ Wisconsin (who lost at home to UNLV) & Michigan & nearly lost to Penn St on the road. I would compare UW favorably w Wisky & Penn St. Hard to say the Buckeyes would have beaten the Huskies in Seattle, but they definitely won in Columbus. Remember the last team to beat Miami before OSU was the Huskies in Seattle.
To say the Huskies sucked is a little strong. They definitely underachieved talent wise. Looking at the landscape of the Big 10, I see Penn St, Indiana, Illinois, NW, MSU & Wisky all as perennial also rans in that conference. Not hard to tell why OSU has a good record over the last 3 yrs, when you add the home games OOC v usually subpar teams. I respect OSU's accomplishments over that period, but also dont think they were the best team in the country when they were selected as the national champs. Don't believe Miami or OSU belonged in that game, cause the confs they are in were down that year. That was proven, in my opinion, by SC's dismantling of Iowa, who was undefeated in the Big 10 & thought by many (including me) to be a better representative than OSU as conf champ before the bowl games.
Shame on you Scott for making Mr. Hockey into a OSU backer.
Funny that you think that OSU's OOC scheduling sucks because they schedule the weak-ass PAC 10 and then state that the PAC 10 is on par with the other conferences. And then state that USC has the best talent and the best staff, yet they don't have any National Championships to show for it. Post all the stats you want, you make no f-ing sense.
Funny that you think that OSU's OOC scheduling sucks because they schedule the weak-ass PAC 10 and then state that the PAC 10 is on par with the other conferences. And then state that USC has the best talent and the best staff, yet they don't have any National Championships to show for it. Post all the stats you want, you make no f-ing sense.
And this whole "anyone, anywhere" credo is such a joke.
At South Bend, the games always in October
At the coliseum against the Irish, and it's late November
Wonder who's idea that was?
USC - The only team that Gerry Faust OWNED (Besides that fumbling the ball before the goal line and getting a TD anyway - a play that USC used very successfully in the late 70's/early 80's)
At South Bend, the games always in October
At the coliseum against the Irish, and it's late November
Wonder who's idea that was?
USC - The only team that Gerry Faust OWNED (Besides that fumbling the ball before the goal line and getting a TD anyway - a play that USC used very successfully in the late 70's/early 80's)
BobbyBlueChip
I never said OSU's OOC scheduling sucks. I said OSU's OOC scheduling does not compare to USC, but not many teams OOC scheduling can compare to USC. (ND compares and often plays a tougher schedule) Scheduling WASHINGTON was a tough OOC opponent, but when you play 8 home games, you do not have a tough schedule at all. Simple as that. PLEASE DO NOT PUT WORDS INTO MY MOUTH!!! PLEASE READ AND COMPREHEND WHAT I WRITE!
In case you lived in a hole this past season, USC won a National Championship. While we are at it, USC beat ND @ ND 45-14. In the Pete Carroll era, USC has beaten ND by 31pts 2 years in a row! OUCH!!!! Get used to the beatings, USC will not let up!
I never said OSU's OOC scheduling sucks. I said OSU's OOC scheduling does not compare to USC, but not many teams OOC scheduling can compare to USC. (ND compares and often plays a tougher schedule) Scheduling WASHINGTON was a tough OOC opponent, but when you play 8 home games, you do not have a tough schedule at all. Simple as that. PLEASE DO NOT PUT WORDS INTO MY MOUTH!!! PLEASE READ AND COMPREHEND WHAT I WRITE!
In case you lived in a hole this past season, USC won a National Championship. While we are at it, USC beat ND @ ND 45-14. In the Pete Carroll era, USC has beaten ND by 31pts 2 years in a row! OUCH!!!! Get used to the beatings, USC will not let up!
Then you need to learn how to read and comprehend.
mansa......I am not in to name calling very much, but I have to say that either that comment was the dumbest thing I have ever heard on here, or you are a complete fuking retard....
In case you were under a rock that year, the Buckeyes won every single game that year....14 of them to be exact. The most ever in Division IA football. We were selected??? Uhhhh....you go undefeated in any BCS conference you have earned a place in the National Championship game, and if you win it, you take the trophy. How in the fuk can you say we were selected?!! Who else should have been selected? USC a 2 loss team?? I swear the more some people talk on here the more freakin retarded they make themselves out to be
And Scotty.....since Ohio State isnt getting any credit from you for us beating the snot out of Washington.....should we just discard that win by oregon over Michigan??
It was in Oregon, wasnt it? Hmmmmmmm
It was in Oregon, wasnt it? Hmmmmmmm
The Big Tease
Oregon beat a very very good Michigan team. What is your point?
Ohio St. does not get the credit you think they deserve for 2 reasons.
#1 OSU wins ugly. OSU barely beats teams, and often on last second plays. OSU struggled at home against bad quality teams, and barely beat these bad quality teams with huge plays. I will not say luck because OSU won fair and square. I also do not think a team should be penalized for winning so I do not care how OSU wins as long as they win. Winning is what counts.
#2 OSU plays so many home games compared to everyone else. So no matter how hard the schedule is, playing so many games at home is such a big advantage that you will not get respect. Now if OSU can schedule 8 home games, thats great for them. However, that does not give them national respect.
After stating all this, OSU fans think they were the best team in the nation. There is a reason that many people do not give OSU national respect and the 2pts i said above are reasons why. I 100% agree OSU deserved the NC 2 years ago, however they were def. not the best team in the nation. I do not think they were, mansa_musa does not, and a whole bunch of other people feel the same way. You know that OSU did not get nearly as much attention/respect as Miami, USC, and LSU got for being National Champions. Why? Because they were not the best team in the nation.
Before you reply with the BS reason that "OSU WON NC SO THEY HAVE TO BE THE BEST TEAM IN THE NATION." That is simply not true.
Here is an example to look at....
Lets use OSU and say LSU for arguments sake. OSU wins every game this year, play 8 home games, and barely beats opponents and often on last second plays. Def. not dominating. LSU wins every game this year except one game. Lets just say the one game LSU lost was because their QB got injured on first play of game and did not play the rest of game and they lost by 7pts. Everyone feels LSU would have won that game hands down if the QB played. LSU won every game that year (dominated opponents and played tougher SOS) and the QB came back for the next game injured free. But say they get shut out from playing the BCS NC game because OU went undefeated as well. Say Ohio St. barely beats OU in NC game and wins NC.
OSU won the NC fair and square, but LSU was the best team in the nation that year. Get it? Just because you win the NC does not mean you were the best team that year. Most of the time the NC is the best team but not 2 years ago. I know I am not alone because OSU did not recieve much respect after winning a NC. You know it.
I am not sure what you are talking about. OSU beat UW fair and square, i just pointed out that UW did lose their head coach prior to the season. That is hard for any team to overcome. Did you not read what mansa_musa wrote?
Oregon beat a very very good Michigan team. What is your point?
Ohio St. does not get the credit you think they deserve for 2 reasons.
#1 OSU wins ugly. OSU barely beats teams, and often on last second plays. OSU struggled at home against bad quality teams, and barely beat these bad quality teams with huge plays. I will not say luck because OSU won fair and square. I also do not think a team should be penalized for winning so I do not care how OSU wins as long as they win. Winning is what counts.
#2 OSU plays so many home games compared to everyone else. So no matter how hard the schedule is, playing so many games at home is such a big advantage that you will not get respect. Now if OSU can schedule 8 home games, thats great for them. However, that does not give them national respect.
After stating all this, OSU fans think they were the best team in the nation. There is a reason that many people do not give OSU national respect and the 2pts i said above are reasons why. I 100% agree OSU deserved the NC 2 years ago, however they were def. not the best team in the nation. I do not think they were, mansa_musa does not, and a whole bunch of other people feel the same way. You know that OSU did not get nearly as much attention/respect as Miami, USC, and LSU got for being National Champions. Why? Because they were not the best team in the nation.
Before you reply with the BS reason that "OSU WON NC SO THEY HAVE TO BE THE BEST TEAM IN THE NATION." That is simply not true.
Here is an example to look at....
Lets use OSU and say LSU for arguments sake. OSU wins every game this year, play 8 home games, and barely beats opponents and often on last second plays. Def. not dominating. LSU wins every game this year except one game. Lets just say the one game LSU lost was because their QB got injured on first play of game and did not play the rest of game and they lost by 7pts. Everyone feels LSU would have won that game hands down if the QB played. LSU won every game that year (dominated opponents and played tougher SOS) and the QB came back for the next game injured free. But say they get shut out from playing the BCS NC game because OU went undefeated as well. Say Ohio St. barely beats OU in NC game and wins NC.
OSU won the NC fair and square, but LSU was the best team in the nation that year. Get it? Just because you win the NC does not mean you were the best team that year. Most of the time the NC is the best team but not 2 years ago. I know I am not alone because OSU did not recieve much respect after winning a NC. You know it.
OMFG....I am not going back to this 2 years after the fact. I state facts.....facts are we were 14-0 and we have BOTH National Championships that year. USC lost twice....sorry about your luck.
Their schedule sucked this year....they were not invited to play in the big game this year....again sorry about your luck. They had to settle for a sympathy award (The AP)
The Patriots won a lot of games the same way the Buckeyes won them the past couple of years.....does that mean that they probably shouldnt have won the Super Bowl?
Wins are wins and losses are losses. And like I said before.....if you get homes games you play them. Yup we played a lot of them the NC year.....who cares.....you go 14-0 anywhere I dont care if it is your back yard....that is impressive.
Their schedule sucked this year....they were not invited to play in the big game this year....again sorry about your luck. They had to settle for a sympathy award (The AP)
The Patriots won a lot of games the same way the Buckeyes won them the past couple of years.....does that mean that they probably shouldnt have won the Super Bowl?
Wins are wins and losses are losses. And like I said before.....if you get homes games you play them. Yup we played a lot of them the NC year.....who cares.....you go 14-0 anywhere I dont care if it is your back yard....that is impressive.
they were they only 14-0 team in the nation, how could they not be the best team, and they won the national championship. If your going to make that argument, I could say Miami(Ohio) was the best team this year even though they didn't win the NC. I would think the coaches and the AP would know what they are doing in voting who is the best team and the rightful NC. and if not, than your basically re-negeging on all of your previous comments on USC. Ohio St was the best team 2 years ago, and this year LSU and USC were the 2 best teams. it doesnt matter how much you win by, but who you beat in the end. Like Big tease says, it all makes a difference in the W-L Coloum...
scott you are digging yourself into a hole; I give OSU all the respect 14-0. Who cares how they win?? At least they dont lose to horrible Cal team. I will take 14 1 pt wins then 1 loss to CAL
Just shut up already god almighty.
Just shut up already god almighty.
Scott4USC said:
Then I have to ask, why do they bother playing the games if wins and losses doesn't seem to matter? I think there are tons of examples where the team that looks the best through stats or on paper talent wise does not win their respective championship. I think that the 2001 and 2003 Yankees are a perfect example of this. It would be hard to fight that the DBacks and Marlins had the more talent than the Yanks, but they proved to be a better TEAM. In my opinion the team that hoists the trophy at the end of the year is the best in their sport. Through the parameters set out before the season began, they found a way to get it done. Regardless of how they accomplished the feat, they did it. If OSU's method of getting themselves to the national championship game gave them an unfair advantage over the other schools, the NCAA would have a rule prohibiting this practice. They did all of their scheduling within the set guidelines, and went undefeated.
If the Kings, Spurs, TWolves, or someone else besides the Lakers win the NBA title this season, will their be a * put next to their name in the record books, because the Lakers really had the best team but couldn't get the job done? Of course not. The last team standing will have proven to be the best collected unit over the 8 months of the season.
I hope that this rambling makes some sense, my point is this: The best team on paper is not always the best unit on the field. Were the 2001 Ohio State Buckeyes the best team in the nation that year? Yes. Were they an unbeatable squad. Probably not, but since no one in the land was able to step up and prove otherwise, that doesn't really matter.
First of all, you "cannot" compare this argument with any PRO TEAMS because college football does not have a playoff to determine the NC. So those are pointless arguments.
I said, I think OSU deserved the National Championship Trophy 2 years ago. They went 14-0 and were the only team in the nation not to lose. They deserved the trophy. No arguments from me on that.
However, since there is not a playoff system in college football, the team who holds up the NC Trophy does not mean they are the best team in the nation. Ask yourself this. How come the national media and fans across the country did not give OSU the respect that most NC TEAMS get? I will tell you why, most people do not think they were the best team in the nation. OSU fans have been crying about this since winning the trophy about not having the respect they think they deserved.
Here is something interesting. Look at recruiting class of Ohio St. the year they won the National Championship. THEY HAD THE 15th ranked recruiting classs. Yikes, USC and LSU just won the NC and both have the #1 and #2 classes. Usually when a team wins a NC they get a top recruiting classes, right? I guess recruits were not sold on OSU either. It does not really have anything to do with OSU being the best team in nation or not, but it was just something interesting.
BBK
Kdogg
Yes you I could say Miami(Ohio) was the best team this year even though they didn't win the NC. You "could" say that about any team because there is no playoff system to determine the Champion. You will be in the minority but you could believe that and make somewhat an argument. With OSU not being the best team in the country 2 years ago, I am not in the minority but in the majority.
I said, I think OSU deserved the National Championship Trophy 2 years ago. They went 14-0 and were the only team in the nation not to lose. They deserved the trophy. No arguments from me on that.
However, since there is not a playoff system in college football, the team who holds up the NC Trophy does not mean they are the best team in the nation. Ask yourself this. How come the national media and fans across the country did not give OSU the respect that most NC TEAMS get? I will tell you why, most people do not think they were the best team in the nation. OSU fans have been crying about this since winning the trophy about not having the respect they think they deserved.
Here is something interesting. Look at recruiting class of Ohio St. the year they won the National Championship. THEY HAD THE 15th ranked recruiting classs. Yikes, USC and LSU just won the NC and both have the #1 and #2 classes. Usually when a team wins a NC they get a top recruiting classes, right? I guess recruits were not sold on OSU either. It does not really have anything to do with OSU being the best team in nation or not, but it was just something interesting.
BBK
ARE YOU DENSE? SERIOUSLY? I gave OSU a lot of respect and I 100% think they deserved the National Championship Trophy. I even said who cares how they win, winning is the most important thing. However, since there is no playoff system, winning and who you play does have to matter in determing who is the best team in the nation. I and a lot of people felt OSU was not the best team in the nation 2 years ago. Simple as that, it is just our opinions. If OSU fans want more respect, then dominate your opponents and don't play 8 home games. Otherwise your not going to get it.
Kdogg
Yes you I could say Miami(Ohio) was the best team this year even though they didn't win the NC. You "could" say that about any team because there is no playoff system to determine the Champion. You will be in the minority but you could believe that and make somewhat an argument. With OSU not being the best team in the country 2 years ago, I am not in the minority but in the majority.
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Scott - you have some valid points - and in my mind I do think that Miami had the most talent in 2001, but OSU found a way to win so they are the best team.
About the recruiting rankings - recruits are picking LSU and USC over OSU because of the systems they employ, not because they do not think OSU was the "real" national champ. I can admit that if I was on offense I'd much rather play at So Cal, and if I was a big time D line recruit I'd want to head to the Bayou. That has nothing to do with who's the national champ, that has to do with who has the system in place to showcase their talents and allow them to thrive.
PS - thanks for letting me know that my whole post was "pointless." And you wonder why people get on your case.
About the recruiting rankings - recruits are picking LSU and USC over OSU because of the systems they employ, not because they do not think OSU was the "real" national champ. I can admit that if I was on offense I'd much rather play at So Cal, and if I was a big time D line recruit I'd want to head to the Bayou. That has nothing to do with who's the national champ, that has to do with who has the system in place to showcase their talents and allow them to thrive.
PS - thanks for letting me know that my whole post was "pointless." And you wonder why people get on your case.
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Blackman
You are right about recruiting and the style the teams play is big deal. However, that is no excuse for Ohio St. to have a #15 recruiting class after winning a National Championship.
Lastly, here is a great scenario to help support my argument. If you had to wager your house and all your savings on a football game in 2002 who would your money be on. STRAIGHT UP!
Ohio St. vs USC
Ohio St. vs Miami (if they played again)
Ohio st. vs Georgia
Ohio St. vs Iowa (too bad they did not play in reg. season, OSU might not have won a NC that year)
Ohio St. vs Washington St. (with QB Gessar healthy for WSU)
Ohio St. vs OU
Ohio St. vs Kansas St.
I put them against the top 7 teams that year. If I had to wager everything I own on the game and take either team STRAIGHT UP, I would bet OSU would beat WSU and KSU in close games. I would take all 5 of those other teams straight up to beat Ohio St. and I WOULD BE CONFIDENT THEY WOULD BEAT OSU!!!!
What would you do? If you argue OSU is the best team in the nation, then that means you would think OSU would, not could, beat all 7 of those teams. Remember, this is not who deserved the NC, this is just who would you take to win the game.
I did not single you out because you were not the only one bringing up pro teams. You should not take it as personal attack. Comparing this argument with pro teams with a playoff system is pointless. Please do not think I was attacking you, i was talking about comparing PRO TEAMS.
You are right about recruiting and the style the teams play is big deal. However, that is no excuse for Ohio St. to have a #15 recruiting class after winning a National Championship.
Lastly, here is a great scenario to help support my argument. If you had to wager your house and all your savings on a football game in 2002 who would your money be on. STRAIGHT UP!
Ohio St. vs USC
Ohio St. vs Miami (if they played again)
Ohio st. vs Georgia
Ohio St. vs Iowa (too bad they did not play in reg. season, OSU might not have won a NC that year)
Ohio St. vs Washington St. (with QB Gessar healthy for WSU)
Ohio St. vs OU
Ohio St. vs Kansas St.
I put them against the top 7 teams that year. If I had to wager everything I own on the game and take either team STRAIGHT UP, I would bet OSU would beat WSU and KSU in close games. I would take all 5 of those other teams straight up to beat Ohio St. and I WOULD BE CONFIDENT THEY WOULD BEAT OSU!!!!
What would you do? If you argue OSU is the best team in the nation, then that means you would think OSU would, not could, beat all 7 of those teams. Remember, this is not who deserved the NC, this is just who would you take to win the game.
Scott you are entitled to your opinion, however jaded they may be, but let me ask you one final question.....
Which scenario would you like to have.
A.) Win a national championship and go 14-0
B.) Have a great team and find ways to lose inexplicable games therefore leaving you not able to compete for the REAL National Championship two years in a row.
Answer that question and I think you should see that this argument is over. And if not, then you are more dense than I even imagined
Which scenario would you like to have.
A.) Win a national championship and go 14-0
B.) Have a great team and find ways to lose inexplicable games therefore leaving you not able to compete for the REAL National Championship two years in a row.
Answer that question and I think you should see that this argument is over. And if not, then you are more dense than I even imagined
The Big Tease
First, why don't you answer my question to my scenario. I would really like to hear your answer and maybe a brief reason why. All posters answers are welcome.
To answer your question, without hesitation, i would choose to go 14-0 and win the NC. That has absolutely nothing to do with who is the best team in the nation argument for that year.
:lol: That cracked me up. I love these little digs at USC. Funny but not true.
First, why don't you answer my question to my scenario. I would really like to hear your answer and maybe a brief reason why. All posters answers are welcome.
To answer your question, without hesitation, i would choose to go 14-0 and win the NC. That has absolutely nothing to do with who is the best team in the nation argument for that year.
GREAT POINT, Big Tease; thats why USC has won an AP trophy in the last 20 years; I dont care how good you are you dont lose games like CAL and get BEAT AT HOME by Kstate; those are FLAT OUT embarrassing; I agree Ohio State plays alot of games at home but you know what they at least win them and they won there away games. There is noway to spin losing games at home or getting beat by a 6 loss team. Miami I thought was the better team when OSU played them but OSU won and went undefeated so they were the best team in the nation PERIOD. And who cares about recruiting classes; when Ohio State and OU won the NC team they were playing with at best the 10-15th best recruiting classes. Texas and alot of other teams have shown that recruiting is very very very OVERRATED. I do believe you have to have good players and some exceptional players to CONSISTENTLY play for the NC. PLEASE Scott give it up; no matter how you try to spin things its not going to work.
Scott4USC said:
That's poor money management :nono: but I will play along.
I'm going to preface these picks though - just because you don't agree with some of them doesn't mean that you are right and I am wrong, or vice versa. Since these games did not and will not take place, there is no "right" answer. So I don't want to hear any "USC would crush Ohio St" comments, because no one knows what would really happen.
Will add too - if anything I'm an OSU hater. Kids born in PA don't root for the Buckeyes. I do not have a Big Ten bias either, could really care less about it. My alma mater is anything but big time football.
Ohio St. vs USC - Going with OSU here. USC's two losses weigh into my decision, and I just don't think that USC had that killer instinct and ability to put teams away like they did this year. Missing that intangible, that swagger, that OSU had that season.
Ohio St. vs Miami - I would bet on Miami, just like I did in the national title game. Miami's winning streak, Dorsey's leadership and all that talent made them the play here. I'd be a hypocrite if I went with OSU now. But OSU did beat them in the biggest game of the season, Miami can't say the same.
Ohio st. vs Georgia - Strong team, love their defense, but that home loss kills them. Could have made a very strong case for this team if they didn't slip up in their building.
Ohio St. vs Iowa - Iowa was tough in the Big Ten last year, going 8-0, but losing at home to Iowa St is a huge blemish on that season. That undefeated Big Ten mark is impressive, and would make me think twice about them, if and only if they didn't lose in their building to their in state rival, and if they played a more competitve game vs USC. Didn't show up for the Rose Bowl, and can't back them to show up here.
Ohio St. vs Washington St. - Wash St shouldn't even be on this list, and I will admit that the Cougers,Iowa, and K St are probably the only "no brainers" on this list in my opinion. Three losses in the season, one at home. If I think that OSU can beat the Queen of the Pac Ten, I surely think they they can handle its bridesmaid.
Ohio St. vs OU - Not a ton to say here, I have a lot of respect for Stoops, but if my life savings was on the line I couldn't justify a team with two losses in their own conference. Solid overall team, but didn't show me any reason to believe that they could beat Ohio St.
Ohio St. vs Kansas St. - OSU is a big winner here. K St was a much better team this year than last, and if Roberson was not hurt they would not have lost to Marshall, and he would maybe been sharper vs Texas, winning that one. OSU beat what I considered the be the better version of the two K St squads, so I'd back them vs the lesser.
Alright, so I would go with Miami over OSU (again
) Too much talent, and they had the swagger to match the Buckeyes. Ironic that I'm going with the team that Ohio St actually beat, but I do think 9 out of 10 times Miami would come up with the win. Still doesn't make them a better team than Ohio St though, because Miami had their chance on the biggest stage of the year and couldn't get it done. To me it just comes down to wins and losses.