Opening Lines sweet 16 and my early leans in bold

[gman2]

scott:

for whatever reason, you are justifying wins/losses because of a certain player in a given game.

"oklahoma state was lucky to advance even after getting a career day from mcfarlin"

"carolina lost to tech because bynum had a career day"

this aint division III college basketball.
in the big time programs (which georgia tech and osu are), almost anyone on a given roster can beat you.

youre acting as if it was some minor miracle or act of god that will bynum scored 35. do you know how good that kid is? im sure nickelback and the rest of the zona fans could tell you he's always had the potential to be a stud, just hasnt always put it together. youre acting like some stiff came off the bench and had a huge day, leading to a fluke win.

 

[maverick2112]

Well with that in mind arent you disturbed that Arizona couldnt close the deal against the Huskies, a team that owned them last year and is thretening to become a perennial challenger?

If thats directed towards me......the answer is No because I believe that Washing is better than Arizona this year.......if you look at the only game Arizona beat Washington you will notice they shot 40 some FT's..........can you say "Home Cooking"

As long as the game is'nt in Tucson then the Huskies are better.........

 

[Scott4USC]

gimmie a fu.ckin break scott. if vegas didnt think carolina was far superior to duke without mccants, they wouldnt have made them a 7 or 8 point favorite. this team has 5 guys that will be playing in the nba...and were supposed to be impressed with home wins against a team they were expected to beat handily?

...and when you need an 11-0 run in the final 2:00 to win the game.....NO, its not impressive.

You bring up interesting point with Vegas but UNC was still missing their best player. Even if McCants wasn't their best player, just a regular starter, that still has an impact on a team. I think beating Duke is special. Especially since Duke is currently a #1 seed AND currently playing in the Sweet 16. Thats a big win.

UNC right now doesn't look like the UNC team who was struggling to beat Clemson/maryland/ etc, struggling to beat Duke, struggling to play in ACC Tourney. It was understandable. There were reasons for this. Now Iowa St. and Oakland aren't world beaters, but UNC handled them the way a team should who is playing to win it all.

Here is a classic recent example for you. In CFB, USC was expected to handle "rival" UCLA rather easily. USC struggled to beat UCLA. VEGAS HAD USC WINNING HUGE! USC blew out OU in the Orange Bowl and played flawlessly. I take that same logic over to UNC. Only difference is UNC was missing their best player and was not playing good ball because of that. Duke is an elite team, UCLA in CFB wasn't. However, USC struggled to beat UCLA, UNC struggled to beat Duke. Now in the tourney, you will see UNC turn it up a notch and they are playing great ball with McCants "finally' back in the flow. USC turned it up in a notch in their NC game.

 

[Sun Tzu]

LMFAO Playing great ball is now defined by beating OAKLAND and Iowa State. Let me be sure and write that down.

Louisville looked better against a much better team - one that just beat Carolina I believe.

 

[maverick2112]

Did'nt they want to win the ACC Tourney........last time I checked Roy and Company have'nt won it lately. Did they just decide to mail it in and prepare for this tourney???? All you hear from the players and coaches is how special the ACC tourney is? Maybe this doe'snt apply to UNC.............Just wondering????

 

[Scott4USC]

Even if UNC wins big this weekend I still will have a few doubts because in reality they have had the biggest joke of 4 games to the final four I have ever seen.......

Good point! In all honesty, that is part of the reason I added to UNC.


gman2

for whatever reason, you are justifying wins/losses because of a certain player in a given game.

"oklahoma state was lucky to advance even after getting a career day from mcfarlin"

"carolina lost to tech because bynum had a career day"

UNC and Illinois could lose this weekend if one of the opposing players scores 35pts. Hell, make the best player on that team. (Bynam comes off the bench) Def. can happen in college hoops.

I am banking on that "not" happening. Even if it does happen, I still think UNC or Illinois can come out with a win. Hell, they only lost by 3 to G-Tech with UNC playing off day AND Bynam scoring 35pts. UNC also was not playing as tough defense as they are now.

If McFarlin scores 30+ against AZ, AZ loses. What are the chances of him doing that against AZ? AZ IMO is not So. Illinois. G-Tech would NOT be playing the same UNC team now that they faced in the ACC tourney. Would Bynam score 35 again against UNC? With a UNC team playing with passion and focus? I don't know but I do know Bynam didn't score 35pts in G-Tech's loss to UL.

 

[Sun Tzu]

According to Scott it didnt matter because they had a one seed locked up. As my Carolina alum frined said "that argument is absurd." Of course Okie State WON their conference tournament but that is defined as playing poorly.

 

[maverick2112]

Scott.........you really have to admit that Oakland and Iowa State were patsies...............Can you name 1 good win Iowa State had on the road all year? Heck we are only 2 or 3 years away from the Larry Eustacy debacle?

 

[Scott4USC]

Uhh Scott Syracuse lost in the first round of the tournament to Vermont. Didnt I read a bunch of nonsense about how OSU is in trouble - just look at what Kansas and Texas did and they both beat Okie State?

Good point and nice try in using my words against me. However, I said WVU losing to Syracuse after playing 3 straight games in BE Tourney wasn't a "bad loss" or a "really bad loss." Syracuse was currently playing GREAT ball. SY was BE tourney champs. Kansas was playing BAD ball at the end of the year. OSU struggled to beat Kansas without KU starter Langford and OSU lost to Kansas at the end of the season. That is NOT too impressive, especially after seeing Kansas lose in 1st round. BTW, Vermont is a good team.

Your "questions" dont anger me. It is just annoying because they arent real questions and I would think you would have enough integrity to not act otherwise. Just like the ones you submitted to OU fans - as if the right answers were going to have you come in and tout the Sooners to beat the Trojenz.

:mj07: If it were true, why does it bother you? Don't these discussions make the forum better? Vyrus seemed to think so in his thread and didn't mind the questions. I wish more threads were like this with INFO and OPINIONS and QUESTIONS instead of just posted plays.

According to Scott it didnt matter because they had a one seed locked up. As my Carolina alum frined said "that argument is absurd." Of course Okie State WON their conference tournament but that is defined as playing poorly.

:mj07:

Good point. I think I said or tried to say that OSU is not playing good basketball in their last 8 games. I did say they don't impress me. Not sure if used the words poorly or not but I do know they are not dominating like I think they should. OSU needs to play well to beat AZ. AZ needs to play well to beat OSU. AZ has played a lot better than OSU has in each teams last 8 games. That is one of my arguments! The evidence is there to support my argument.

LMFAO Playing great ball is now defined by beating OAKLAND and Iowa State. Let me be sure and write that down.

Louisville looked better against a much better team - one that just beat Carolina I believe.

:mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

Cracking me up. UNC is beating their opponents the way they should. IMO, if UNC played So. Illinois, UNC would win by 20+. OSU struggled badly and needed a 32pt game from McFarlin. I like what I am seeing from UNC and I agree they have not beaten a great team yet in this tourney. Maybe we have to wait until the final four to see.

 

[Scott4USC]

Gman2 and Sun Tzu

Quotes by the poster Saint, who is a big time UNC fan.

You guys know I have to chime in when the ACC and UNC is involved.

I think Sun made a good point, it's not that the conference as a whole is overrated but some of the teams at the top are.

And scott4 is exactly right, as difficult as it might be for you guys to accept, Carolina players just did not care much about the ACC Tournament. Would you guys agree that the philosophy of the coach rubs off on the team? Because I do, and Roy said multiple times throughout the season that he hates conference tournaments. He said it right before the ACC Tourny. And I don't think it was to make an excuse if we lost, it's because he just doesn't think they serve much purpose. Well, when your coach shows that attitude it's no suprise it will rub off on the players.

Sean May summed it up the best after Carolina lost to Georgia Tech. He said "we were fat and happy after our regular season title". Now you guys have seen that when this team "wants" to turn it on they are one of, if not the best team in the country. Whether or not they will hold that intensity is questionable.

Also a good point about McCants being out by Scott. I read a very impressive breakdown by a reporter in Charlotte that actually showed that without Rashad the Heels allowed about 9 pts a game more and averaged about 6 or 7 less possessions on offense. People may say he's a liability but he's an important piece of the puzzle.

 

[Sun Tzu]

AS I have said my UNC friend disagrees, and it is contrary to everything I have ever heard from any AC basketball fan. If the players really didnt care, you should look at that as more of a concern. But of course you are only interested in what you thinks supports what you already bet.

 

[gman2]

If McFarlin scores 30+ against AZ, AZ loses. What are the chances of him doing that against AZ? AZ IMO is not So. Illinois.

funny thing is, youre absolutely right. arizona is NOT southern illinois.

southern illinois is a top 10 defense in the country.

arizona isnt.

obviouslty i get what youre saying, but at the same time, southern illinois sure as hell aint a dog shit team. theyre one of the best defensive teams in the country and very tough to score on

 

[pt1gard]

wow, i leave my thread for a few hours and all hell breaks loose, hehe ... J/k, go at it guys, I love it ...

anyhow, my 2 cents on this depth issue is speaking as a coach who's watched teams play in state tourney (4 games in 4 days for 20+ years) is that when our teams make it to the finals, which are always on TV and with Time outs every four mins for 2:30 mins, we honestly can play 5 guys--in normal games we will play 7 or 8, or sometimes less but kids do tire ...

that said, im with Nickel in the fact that depth does count in ncaa's b/c of fouls and injuires, not to mention potential matchup probs and solutions, and to say otherwise is not being realistic ... the UW plays 9 kids, but they run and press harder than any team left in field, and they tend to foul, and they will search for right combo, hot hand etc ...

i could make some other comments about particular posts but itd be a waste of time , besides a couple of you already made them hehe


gl, gregg

 

[Sun Tzu]

Scott.........you really have to admit that Oakland and Iowa State were patsies...............Can you name 1 good win Iowa State had on the road all year? Heck we are only 2 or 3 years away from the Larry Eustacy debacle?

They won at Texas and Kansas. Those were certainly very strong at the time, and essentially the only reason ISU got in the dance.

 

[Sun Tzu]

wow, i leave my thread for a few hours and all hell breaks loose, hehe ... J/k, go at it guys, I love it ...

anyhow, my 2 cents on this depth issue is speaking as a coach who's watched teams play in state tourney (4 games in 4 days for 20+ years) is that when our teams make it to the finals, which are always on TV and with Time outs every four mins for 2:30 mins, we honestly can play 5 guys--in normal games we will play 7 or 8, or sometimes less but kids do tire ...

that said, im with Nickel in the fact that depth does count in ncaa's b/c of fouls and injuires, to say otherwise is not being realistic ... the UW plays 9 kids, but they run and press harder than any team left in field, and they trend to foul, and they will search for right combo, hot hand etc ...

i could make some other comments about particular posts but itd be a waste of time , besides a couple of you already made them hehe


gl, gregg

I specifically said depth would matter if the refs called it tight inside. And I made the same argument about timeouts. Where was I unrealistic (since Nickel and I were the only ones discussing the topic).

 

[Scott4USC]

AS I have said my UNC friend disagrees, and it is contrary to everything I have ever heard from any AC basketball fan. If the players really didnt care, you should look at that as more of a concern. But of course you are only interested in what you thinks supports what you already bet.

Times are changing. Players change. UNC coach hates the tourney. Sean May said "we were fat and happy after our regular season title." This UNC team wanted to win the ACC tourney but by coasting through. Scary part is they almost did! They were not going to go balls out. I think that is evidently clear. Especially if you see the passion UNC has played with in their last 2 games.

 

[Sun Tzu]

I can understand why Roy Williams hates tournaments.

 

[Scott4USC]

Scott.........you really have to admit that Oakland and Iowa State were patsies...............Can you name 1 good win Iowa State had on the road all year? Heck we are only 2 or 3 years away from the Larry Eustacy debacle?

02/5 at No. 18 Texas W 92-80

02/8 at Nebraska W 65-60 *

02/19 at No. 2 Kansas W 63-61 **

03/5 at Colorado W 78-73 ***

*Oklahoma St. LOST to Nebraska by 7pts on Feb. 22 @NU.

**Oklahoma St. lost to Kansas @Kansas. However, OSU was able to beat Kansas by 3pts but Kansas was missing Langford who is a key starter for the Jayhawks.

***Oklahoma St. only beat Colorado by 2pts on March 11th. AT OKLAHOMA ST.

 

[pt1gard]

Because there isnt a depth issue. I guess you will stretch for anything. If you think fatigue really matters that much in a game where there are 20 year old kids and there is is a timeout every 4 minutes that last 3-4 minutes and every trip to the line is another minute

Sun, I admit i dont read every word you and scott argue (i do try to read Nickel's), but i did see that and was trying to help on both sides, sorry i touched a nerve ... FWIW, you and scott would be a tremendous debate unit

 

[Sun Tzu]

I would add Az has all of 7 guys averaging double digits in minutes for the year. Considering the scrub time, saying Az is much more than 7 deep is a stretch unless you just mean somewhat warm bodies. In fact you only have 7 guys that have even played in 30 games this year - you have played 35.

Okie Stae with 8 guys playing 30+ games. Only Lucas averaging more than 30 minutes. Az only with Stoudamire.

The fact is there isnt much difference in overall depth, although Az certainly has a depth advanage in the pivot. How tight the game is called, and whether Az actually decides to explore aninside game will determine how much that matters.

Pt you must have glossed over this one.