Our founders would be revolted

buddy

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Our founders would be revolted
Friday, July 04, 2008
By Tony Norman, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Let's face it -- 232 years after it was declared, Independence Day hasn't exactly lived up to its hype.

Instead of meditating upon the meaning of our democracy like those delegates to the Second Continental Congress intended, a modern patriot's mind turns to thoughts of conspicuous consumption and the starting times for the latest Will Smith movie.

Another July Fourth has come to America, but we might as well be celebrating under portraits of old King George III in English pubs for all it matters.

By now, it should be obvious to everyone who thinks about it: Democracy is still very much a theory in the land Woody Guthrie once insisted belonged to you and me.

Democracy will remain a beautiful theory until Americans once again recapture the capacity for outrage evident more than two centuries ago when disgruntled landowners conspired in Philadelphia's sweltering heat to form what would be called "a more perfect union."

Imagine what those revolutionary heroes would say if they could see their American progeny whining about the price of gas while civil liberties disappeared from the land with barely a whisper of dissent.

George Washington would never stop throwing up once confronted with proof of how wrong he was about our willingness to master the intricacies of self-government.

Two centuries after throwing off the yoke of British tyranny, Americans suffer from a weird cultural amnesia that prevents us from living out our democratic principles or taking the institutions that embody them seriously.

No less an authority than satirist Bill Maher nailed it when he quipped: "We have a Bill of Rights. What we need is a Bill of Responsibilities."

If the authors of the Declaration of Independence were to crash our family barbecues demanding an explanation for the low regard with which we hold participation in the democratic process, how would we explain ourselves?

Would we come clean and admit that dazzled as we are by the pursuit of capital and the 24-7 cult of vulgarity, we've forgotten the true meaning of patriotism and what it means to be an American?

Is there any way the drafters of the document we "celebrate" today could understand that because patriotism now mirrors the lowest value in society, it has become the emptiest of American virtues?

Thomas Jefferson and John Adams would have instinctively recoiled from the absurdity of our politics.

In the two centuries since the founders hammered out the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution, America has become a place where the presence or absence of a flag pin has eclipsed the candidate's position on pressing domestic and international issues.

If Washington or Jefferson asked us what patriotism means in 2008, we would be obliged to tell them the following:

? Patriotism means never having to acknowledge that waterboarding happens in our name and not feeling guilty about it, either.

? Patriotism means sticking the bill for an unnecessary war on future generations and not feeling guilty about it.

? Patriotism means telling a pollster that a candidate is the wrong gender or race and isn't worthy of holding high office (though the founders would have understood that bias all too well).

? Patriotism means blurring the line between church and state because America should be the kind of place where Jesus should feel at home on Easter weekend.

? Patriotism means paying lip service to "traditional values" and spending a good chunk of the family income on porn and lottery tickets.

? Patriotism means being freaked out by gays and lesbians who want to "undermine the sanctity of marriage" even as you cheat on your spouse while making a mockery of your second and third marriages.

? Patriotism means caring so little about politics that you rely on talk radio and rumors on the Internet to do your thinking for you. Still, you consider yourself an "informed citizen" even though you're ahistorical, anti-intellectual and easily influenced by demagogues.

? Patriotism means not considering the loss of 900 newspaper jobs across the country last week an ominous sign that the press freedoms we've taken for granted since Ben Franklin's time will be on life support in a few years.

? Patriotism means having the gall to question other people's patriotism without ever considering the shallowness of one's own.
Tony Norman can be reached at tnorman@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1631. More articles by this author
 

Jabberwocky

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So much good stuff in this piece, does this one ring a bell with anyone?

"? Patriotism means having the gall to question other people's patriotism without ever considering the shallowness of one's own."

But then again I am just an America hating, pinko commie, socialist, leftist, terrorist loving liberal.
 

AR182

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Our founders would be revolted
Friday, July 04, 2008
By Tony Norman, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Let's face it -- 232 years after it was declared, Independence Day hasn't exactly lived up to its hype.

Instead of meditating upon the meaning of our democracy like those delegates to the Second Continental Congress intended, a modern patriot's mind turns to thoughts of conspicuous consumption and the starting times for the latest Will Smith movie.

Another July Fourth has come to America, but we might as well be celebrating under portraits of old King George III in English pubs for all it matters.

By now, it should be obvious to everyone who thinks about it: Democracy is still very much a theory in the land Woody Guthrie once insisted belonged to you and me.

Democracy will remain a beautiful theory until Americans once again recapture the capacity for outrage evident more than two centuries ago when disgruntled landowners conspired in Philadelphia's sweltering heat to form what would be called "a more perfect union."

Imagine what those revolutionary heroes would say if they could see their American progeny whining about the price of gas while civil liberties disappeared from the land with barely a whisper of dissent.

George Washington would never stop throwing up once confronted with proof of how wrong he was about our willingness to master the intricacies of self-government.

Two centuries after throwing off the yoke of British tyranny, Americans suffer from a weird cultural amnesia that prevents us from living out our democratic principles or taking the institutions that embody them seriously.

No less an authority than satirist Bill Maher nailed it when he quipped: "We have a Bill of Rights. What we need is a Bill of Responsibilities."

If the authors of the Declaration of Independence were to crash our family barbecues demanding an explanation for the low regard with which we hold participation in the democratic process, how would we explain ourselves?

Would we come clean and admit that dazzled as we are by the pursuit of capital and the 24-7 cult of vulgarity, we've forgotten the true meaning of patriotism and what it means to be an American?

Is there any way the drafters of the document we "celebrate" today could understand that because patriotism now mirrors the lowest value in society, it has become the emptiest of American virtues?

Thomas Jefferson and John Adams would have instinctively recoiled from the absurdity of our politics.

In the two centuries since the founders hammered out the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution, America has become a place where the presence or absence of a flag pin has eclipsed the candidate's position on pressing domestic and international issues.

If Washington or Jefferson asked us what patriotism means in 2008, we would be obliged to tell them the following:

? Patriotism means never having to acknowledge that waterboarding happens in our name and not feeling guilty about it, either.

? Patriotism means sticking the bill for an unnecessary war on future generations and not feeling guilty about it.

? Patriotism means telling a pollster that a candidate is the wrong gender or race and isn't worthy of holding high office (though the founders would have understood that bias all too well).

? Patriotism means blurring the line between church and state because America should be the kind of place where Jesus should feel at home on Easter weekend.

? Patriotism means paying lip service to "traditional values" and spending a good chunk of the family income on porn and lottery tickets.

? Patriotism means being freaked out by gays and lesbians who want to "undermine the sanctity of marriage" even as you cheat on your spouse while making a mockery of your second and third marriages.

? Patriotism means caring so little about politics that you rely on talk radio and rumors on the Internet to do your thinking for you. Still, you consider yourself an "informed citizen" even though you're ahistorical, anti-intellectual and easily influenced by demagogues.

? Patriotism means not considering the loss of 900 newspaper jobs across the country last week an ominous sign that the press freedoms we've taken for granted since Ben Franklin's time will be on life support in a few years.

? Patriotism means having the gall to question other people's patriotism without ever considering the shallowness of one's own.
Tony Norman can be reached at tnorman@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1631. More articles by this author

good article buddy..agree with some of his thoughts...& disagree with some others...

i keep reading on the various forums that our civil liberties have been lost...can somebody please tell me what has been lost ?
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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Patriotism means never having to acknowledge that waterboarding happens in our name and not feeling guilty about it, either.

Doubt or founding fathers knew what waterboarding was --but believe they hung spys--
also seriously boubt if it was mattr of saving 1000's of lives there wouldn't have been much they would do
.

? Patriotism means sticking the bill for an unnecessary war on future generations and not feeling guilty about it.

Crux of this matter is who is opining on- if necessary

? Patriotism means telling a pollster that a candidate is the wrong gender or race and isn't worthy of holding high office (though the founders would have understood that bias all too well).

Would agree on this--however if founders knew this all to well why were women and ethnic groups not allowed to vote while they were in power?
? Patriotism means blurring the line between church and state because America should be the kind of place where Jesus should feel at home on Easter weekend.

What would they say about liberals trying to remove GOD from their works--and pledge of allegiance--in god we trust etc etc

? Patriotism means paying lip service to "traditional values" and spending a good chunk of the family income on porn and lottery tickets.

and goes double those defending child porn-drugs-crimnal rights etc --correct
? Patriotism means being freaked out by gays and lesbians who want to "undermine the sanctity of marriage" even as you cheat on your spouse while making a mockery of your second and third marriages.

Yep sure they'd approved kids kicked out of parks on grounds of liberal bias. Doubt they anticpated what was to come or that there would even be considerations of marriage other than man and wife--and the people per their votes agree.
What next-sisters /mother-daughter/uncle nephew in the name of liberal rights.


? Patriotism means caring so little about politics that you rely on talk radio and rumors on the Internet to do your thinking for you. Still, you consider yourself an "informed citizen" even though you're ahistorical, anti-intellectual and easily influenced by demagogues.

Seriously doubt founding fathers would have issue where you got your info--might be reason for their freedom of speech--ya think?

? Patriotism means not considering the loss of 900 newspaper jobs across the country last week an ominous sign that the press freedoms we've taken for granted since Ben Franklin's time will be on life support in a few years.

Got nothing to do with freedom of speech--people don't like views of papers they dump em for avenues that they can relate with.

? Patriotism means having the gall to question other people's patriotism without ever considering the shallowness of one's own.

GOD DAMN AMERICA --being a vet who has served-I'll question that --Thank You
 

gardenweasel

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theres a few minutes of my life wasted....nothing more than leftwing b.s. and contradictions....

? Patriotism means caring so little about politics that you rely on talk radio and rumors on the Internet to do your thinking for you. Still, you consider yourself an "informed citizen" even though you're ahistorical, anti-intellectual and easily influenced by demagogues.

? Patriotism means not considering the loss of 900 newspaper jobs across the country last week an ominous sign that the press freedoms we've taken for granted since Ben Franklin's time will be on life support in a few years.

`scuse me mo-mo.....the reason newspapers are going under and losing millions by the week is because they`ve lost their objectivity(you`re a shining example of just that)and people realize that they can get all the info they want straight up and in a timely fashion from the interent...

not filtered through some leftwing moonbat`s skewed view of utopia...

wonder why he didn`t mention how the framers would have probably hung the staff of the nyt`s for divulging state security secrets to our enemies?....

hell,roosevelt would have probably hung them..

didn`t fit his agenda,i`d guess...

hopefully,he`ll be one of those newspaper hacks that will soon be going the way of the buggywhip....

happy job-hunting,propagandist...don`t let the door hit you in the ass...
 

djv

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Happy Fourth Buddy! nice artical. They tried hard way back then. And I'm sure some things might shock them now.
 

Jabberwocky

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? Patriotism means blurring the line between church and state because America should be the kind of place where Jesus should feel at home on Easter weekend.

What would they say about liberals trying to remove GOD from their works--and pledge of allegiance--in god we trust etc etc

[/B]


Their "works"?

Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892

The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861.

Your ignorant opinions on shit you know nothing about are amusing to me. If I get bored I will pick the rest of your post apart, point by point.

BTW, I suppose you think the founding fathers were traditional christians? Do you know what a deist is? Do you know what a unitarian is? Nevermind, it gets a bit complicated for you. They all wore flag lapel pins and they would be big fans of GW Jr. and good Americans such as yourself.
 

Jabberwocky

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theres a few minutes of my life wasted....nothing more than leftwing b.s. and contradictions....

? Patriotism means caring so little about politics that you rely on talk radio and rumors on the Internet to do your thinking for you. Still, you consider yourself an "informed citizen" even though you're ahistorical, anti-intellectual and easily influenced by demagogues.

? Patriotism means not considering the loss of 900 newspaper jobs across the country last week an ominous sign that the press freedoms we've taken for granted since Ben Franklin's time will be on life support in a few years.

`scuse me mo-mo.....the reason newspapers are going under and losing millions by the week is because they`ve lost their objectivity(you`re a shining example of just that)and people realize that they can get all the info they want straight up and in a timely fashion from the interent...

not filtered through some leftwing moonbat`s skewed view of utopia...

wonder why he didn`t mention how the framers would have probably hung the staff of the nyt`s for divulging state security secrets to our enemies?....

hell,roosevelt would have probably hung them..

didn`t fit his agenda,i`d guess...

hopefully,he`ll be one of those newspaper hacks that will soon be going the way of the buggywhip....

happy job-hunting,propagandist...don`t let the door hit you in the ass...

wow...honestly GW, do you ever have a substantive retort or is it always just liberal bullshit?
 

Jabberwocky

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Let me guess, you like your brethren DTB think "What would they say about liberals trying to remove GOD from their works--and pledge of allegiance--in god we trust etc etc" is a valid point.

I know reading is hard for you, but you should give it your best effort.
 

gardenweasel

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wow...honestly GW, do you ever have a substantive retort or is it always just liberal bullshit?

when i started reading the article i thought it was going to be an objective piece....

about a 3rd of the way through it was painfully obvious it was another liberal rant.....

if i`d realized this beforehand,i wouldn`t have read it or bothered commenting.....

sorry...

i apologize for interrupting the sound of one hand clapping....



that`s all..
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Their "works"?

Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892

The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861.

Your ignorant opinions on shit you know nothing about are amusing to me. If I get bored I will pick the rest of your post apart, point by point.
BTW, I suppose you think the founding fathers were traditional christians? Do you know what a deist is? Do you know what a unitarian is? Nevermind, it gets a bit complicated for you. They all wore flag lapel pins and they would be big fans of GW Jr. and good Americans such as yourself.

Appears to me you couldn't pick your nose with both hands--if your past sporting bet wagers are any indication. :)

All hat no cattle--AGAIN
 
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