Pac 10 Expansion ?

AR182

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Interesting read....

A little more than a year ago, the Pac-10 hired a college athletics outsider -- a tennis CEO who admitted he hadn't attended a college football game since the mid-'90s -- to help modernize a perceived country-club league lacking for national exposure. If commissioner Larry Scott manages to pull off the jaw-dropping makeover his league is reportedly considering -- a 16-team mega-conference that would bring in Texas and Oklahoma and reap Big Ten/SEC-level clout -- he should win every executive-of-the-year award there is to offer.

As long as you're at it, Larry, care to help clean up the oil spill?

In talking with various parties across the sport Thursday and Friday, it's sounding more and more like the proposed plan first reported by Texas fan site Orangebloods.com (whose reporter, Chip Brown, was a longtime beat writer for the Dallas Morning News) is more than mere gossip. While the process isn't nearly as far along as some would like to believe (Scott was presumably being truthful Thursday when he said "we have not developed any definitive plans"), a number of signs point to the "Pac-16" being an eventual possibility.

The No. 1 reason: It makes too much sense.

Fans, media, administrators and coaches have been busily theorizing all sorts of scenarios ever since the Big Ten and Pac-10 announced their intentions last winter to explore expansion. For the most part, none of them seemed particularly sensible. Texas to the Big Ten? OK, but why would the Longhorns want to spend half their season traveling to State College and Madison? Utah to the Pac-10? Geographically it makes sense, but it's not going to send the TV networks scrambling for their checkbooks.

The plan laid out by Orangebloods is the first we've seen where both the conference and teams involved would get substantially richer without destroying rivalries and terrorizing schedule-makers.

Texas is obviously the crown jewel in the Pac-10's eyes (as it is several conferences these days) due both to its national prestige and massive state full of TV sets. Texas A&M is its logical expansion partner. Presumably, a 12-team league with these two additions is one of several models Scott and his conference presidents (with the help of Creative Artists Agency, the powerful Hollywood entertainment firm the league hired as a consultant) have either discussed or will be discussing at their meetings this weekend in San Francisco.

In that model, however, there's little incentive for Texas to leave the Big 12, which, contrary to various accounts, remains the school's first preference. In a 12-team Pac-10, the 'Horns and Aggies would be geographic outliers, and Texas' annual rivalry games with Oklahoma and Texas Tech become endangered.

In the 16-team plan, however, where the six former Big 12 schools (according to Orangebloods' report, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Colorado) join Arizona and Arizona State in an eight-team "East Division," league schools would still spend at least three-fourths of their season within their traditional backyard. USC could play seven traditional Pac-10 foes and take one trip to, say, Norman. Texas' basketball team could play 10 league games against fellow Big 12 imports, do home-and-homes with Arizona and Arizona State and take one Thursday-Saturday swing to, say, the Oregon schools.

Then you use conference tournaments and title games to determine a champion.

Mind you, this is all far from becoming reality. Expanding a conference is not like making a fantasy-football trade. Even if Scott is convinced that 16 teams is the way to go (and we don't know that he is), he still needs the approval of 16 different university presidents (who themselves are presumably consulting with athletic directors, coaches and boosters). If by some chance he leaves San Francisco this weekend with the league's 10 current CEOs on board, then clearly, this man has Svengali-like persuasion abilities.

For years, Scott's laissez-faire predecessor, Tom Hansen, led us to believe that not just he, but his school's presidents, were content with their beach-bum status quo. Preserving league traditions was more important than, say, getting a second BCS berth. And any mention of expansion was always couched with reminders about the Pac-10's serious attention to academics.

With that being the case, you're telling me those same schools are suddenly OK with Oklahoma State? (No offense, Cowboy alums.) It's hard to believe the presidents of USC and UCLA will make that decision lightly.

But then again, Cal Chancellor Robert Birgeneau sounded positively giddy when he told a Massachusetts alumni group last Monday he would be "surprised if something did not happen [this weekend] that revolutionized college athletics," and that the league was considering "a couple of schools, at least one of which meets the academic standards of the rest of the Pac-10."

Just how many TV $$$ does it take for a group of presidents to lower their "standards?"

Meanwhile, university administrators won't be the only power-brokers with a say in various schools' destinations. Get ready to hear from the politicians.

The Big 12 was formed in part out of political pressure, with Texas' governor (Ann Richards) and House speaker (Pete Laney), among others, essentially forcing Texas Tech and Baylor's inclusions. That Virginia Tech wound up in the ACC rather than initial choice Syracuse was almost entirely the work of then-Virginia governor Mark Warner.

Should we reach the point yet again where one conference (the Pac-10 and/or Big Ten) threatens to destroy another (the Big 12), you can be sure that legislators in the affected states will start frothing. With the massive amounts of money at stake, you think the governor of Iowa is going to stand by and watch Iowa State lose its BCS affiliation? Or the Kansas legislature will allow KU and K-State to go separate ways? Not without funding-cut threats or other maneuverings.

We saw a hint of this dilemma in an e-mail exchange between Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany and Ohio State President Gordon Gee, reported Friday by the Columbus Dispatch. In it, Gee makes reference to Texas' "Tech problem" -- as in, how do we lure Texas without getting stuck with its stepchild? Whether the Pac-10 is willing to make that compromise, or whether it's even necessary, remains to be seen.

So while it's undeniably fun to fantasize about this seemingly impending realignment wave, in reality, it will not play out nearly as smoothly as some of this week's reports make it sound. Don't expect either the Pac-10 or Big Ten to emerge from their respective conference meetings this weekend having locked-in new lineups.

(The one domino we could see fall Monday: Boise State to the Mountain West.)

Right now the entire college sports industry is either engaged in or watching a very high-stakes poker game. Who's going to blink first?

Texas isn't necessarily looking to flock West -- but it almost certainly would if Nebraska bolts to the Big Ten. (Texas reportedly has little interest in the SEC, mainly for academic reasons.) Of course, we don't yet know whether the Big Ten is serious about the Huskers or whether they'll have to make a decision before the Longhorns make theirs. And remember, it was only a month or so ago that the Big East seemed to be the conference most in jeopardy -- and it may still be. Nobody knows.

About the only thing we can take away from this week's rumblings is that the Pac-10 could wind up every bit as much a player as the Big Ten in whatever eventual shakeups ensue. That alone would have seemed implausible six months ago.

So kudos to you, Larry Scott. You were hired to make your conference more relevant. It feels like you already have.
 

joefrog91

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My whole take on it is if the Pac-10 does raid the Big XII and the Big 10 takes Mizzou and Neb, then the MWC should pick up Boise St, Fresno St and Houston to become a 12 team league.

I don't like the idea that's being floated around that the MWC should pick up the remaining Big XII teams. I don't think, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas St or Iowa St bring anything to the MWC. Because let's face it, we're talking about football here. I know those schools have other great sports that add something, but expansion is all about football.

Also, it would warm my heart to know that Baylor would get left out like TCU was back at the end of the SWC.
 

hawkeye

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A lot of talk about this and speculation. The main focus is of course moneyi. The B12 looks like it could be the losing cconference.
 

kegray1

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My whole take on it is if the Pac-10 does raid the Big XII and the Big 10 takes Mizzou and Neb, then the MWC should pick up Boise St, Fresno St and Houston to become a 12 team league.

I don't like the idea that's being floated around that the MWC should pick up the remaining Big XII teams. I don't think, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas St or Iowa St bring anything to the MWC. Because let's face it, we're talking about football here. I know those schools have other great sports that add something, but expansion is all about football.

Also, it would warm my heart to know that Baylor would get left out like TCU was back at the end of the SWC.

What does Houston bring to the table that Baylor,KU,KSU,or even ISU do?????

Not football!

UofH average attendence last season was 25,242 and that was after they renovated the stadium and had an excellent season. A few years ago this school was not averaging 15,000 a game. Also the stadium is not big enough to go much higher than the 25K they got last year.
Baylor averaged 36,306 in '09.
Kansas averaged 50,581 in '09.
KSU averaged 46,763 in '09.
ISU averaged 46,242 in '09.
Houston had 151,450 attend.
Kansas had 303,488 attend.

That is a huge difference.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/football_records/Attendance/2009.pdf

So Kansas brings double the attendence in football and a basketball team that MWC would kill for.

Money drives football and U of H doesn't bring any of that to the table. All they bring is an entertaining team to watch.

As for the basketball part of it, Hofeinz Pavillion(Houston) is a TRAIN WRECK of a facility these days with ZERO suites and no new stadium in the future.
Basketball attendence average:
Houston 3,202
Kansas 16,433
KSU 11,884
ISU 12,491
Baylor 7,457
Houston had 48,033 people for the season.
Kansas had 312,230.

That a huge cash difference.

As for Baylor screwing over the remaining SWC schools, you can thank Ann Richards for that and what was Baylor supposed to do say no?
TCU would have done the same thing if it were them instead of Baylor.

As for me, I wish we could just bring back the SWC but $ will not allow it.
 
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kegray1

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As for Texas heading to the Pac10, that is a last resort option for Texas.
Texas wants an exclusive tv deal and that will not be an option in the Pac10.
Texas wants the Big12 to stay in tact and get an exclusive tv deal.
Second option would probably be get a tv deal and go independent.
Third option would be Pac10.
Texas is not going to the SEC for many reasons.

A&M wants to go to the SEC, but wants to stay in tact with Texas at the same time.

I think it comes down to a who screws who first deal kind of like how the SWC fell apart.
 

joefrog91

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Kegray, I'm talking about the Houston market. I've seen several articles say the same thing about basketball not being a consideration of expansion talks.

I may have spoken too soon about Baylor now that Orangebloods.com is saying Baylor is once again getting some political help. Colorado is out and Baylor is in.
 

kegray1

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Kegray, I'm talking about the Houston market. I've seen several articles say the same thing about basketball not being a consideration of expansion talks.

I may have spoken too soon about Baylor now that Orangebloods.com is saying Baylor is once again getting some political help. Colorado is out and Baylor is in.

Living in Houston I can tell you this city doesn't give a damn about the Cougars.
The Houston market is geared towards Texas and A&M.
Houston is a commuter school for the most part which is a big reason for the lack of following along with poor facilities.
Sports radio talks everyday about Cougars future and rumors are it will never change until their facilities do first.

I can tell you not many more in Houston are following the Cougars that are not at the games.
Local sports news leads with Texas then A&M before getting to Houston or Rice.
 
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AR182

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I'm not for major conferences expanding if it effects other conferences. Of all of the teams that have been mentioned, I think Boise jumping to the MWC would be the only one that I would favor. The reason why I am for this is because then the MWC would be able to compete with the big boys....their top teams would be Boise, TCU, Utah, & BYU....Imo those teams could compete with the top 4 teams in any of the bigger conferences.
 
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The Judge

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The PAC-10 will eventually settle for Utah and Utah State to make a 12 team conference. They have no shot at Texas.
 

bgold13

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Texas has no shot at its own TV network. Plain and simple it's not fesible. The Horns have a ton of reach in the state of Texas, yes. But nationally no cable company would buy their network, so they will put all their eggs with Directv.

The only revenue source is from football.. obviously.. Texas plays 12 games, in those 12 games, half of them will go to other networks per current contracts and big money deals that they wont break under any circumstance with ESPN/ABC. So you're looking at a 5 maybe 6 games for the Longhorn Network to pick up... Those are the games against Baylor, Central Florida, LA-Lafayette, etc..

It just doesn't bring in the money that joining the PAC-16 would generate.
 

gjn23

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The PAC-10 will eventually settle for Utah and Utah State to make a 12 team conference. They have no shot at Texas.

utah state

:142smilie

sorry, but there is no way in hell the pac-10 takes utah state for many athletic reasons in addition to the academic reason.
 

hedgehog

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Texas should go the Independence route, National TV every week :00hour I like this idea
 

kegray1

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Texas should go the Independence route, National TV every week :00hour I like this idea

It would be difficult to schedule football as an independent.
At this point Texas is waiting to see what Nebraska and Mizzou are gonna do.
Texas has a much sweeter tv deal in the Big12 than they would in the Pac16.

Texas enjoys being the exposure team in the conference and they don't want anything to happen to the Big12.
 

layinwood

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Texas has no shot at its own TV network. Plain and simple it's not fesible. The Horns have a ton of reach in the state of Texas, yes. But nationally no cable company would buy their network, so they will put all their eggs with Directv.

The only revenue source is from football.. obviously.. Texas plays 12 games, in those 12 games, half of them will go to other networks per current contracts and big money deals that they wont break under any circumstance with ESPN/ABC. So you're looking at a 5 maybe 6 games for the Longhorn Network to pick up... Those are the games against Baylor, Central Florida, LA-Lafayette, etc..

It just doesn't bring in the money that joining the PAC-16 would generate.


I'm not saying it will be successful but you're wrong in saying they have no shot at its own network. If the Big 12 stays together it's going to happen. I for one hope the Pac16 happens because the revenue numbers that have been thrown around for UTs own network are ridiculous compared to what the other Big12 teams bring in.
 

bgold13

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Obviously there is a shot, I shouldnt say there is none... Especially since UT is dead set on its own network... But the numbers quite simply do not add up. They would be costing themselves millions.. I would love a 16-pac
 

AR182

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Pac-16....

Pac-16....

CU already has Pac-10 inviteEmail Print Comments

Ted Miller
ESPN.com

With Nebraska apparently headed to the Big Ten, the Pac-10 is poised to become the Pac-16.

Colorado already has received an invitation to join the conference, while five other invitations will be extended to Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech, according to a source familiar with the negotiations.

A Big 12 football coach, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, told ESPN.com's Mark Schlabach on Wednesday night that if Nebraska left the Big 12 the conference would dissolve, according to his athletics director and university president. The coach said Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Colorado would join the Pac-10, leaving Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri and Iowa State behind.

"Nebraska is the key," the coach said.

The coach said the Pac-10 favored Colorado over Baylor because of the Buffaloes' presence in the Denver TV market.

The only potential hitch is Nebraska and the Big Ten not coming to an agreement. But even in that scenario, which appears unlikely, the Pac-10 will expand to at least 12 teams, said the source familiar with the negotiations. While Colorado is in and Utah is a top alternative candidate, it's also possible that the Pac-10 would make a play for Nebraska or another Big 12 school instead of Utah.

"If Nebraska gets left at the alter by the Big Ten, which would slight them at the 11th hour, then it might be hard for them to stay in the Big 12," the source said.

It would take a week to 10 days to finalize the details of a Pac-16. The blockbuster deal would add the nation's No. 5 (Dallas), No. 10 (Houston) and No. 16 (Denver) TV markets to the conference, which already includes No. 2 Los Angeles, No. 6 San Francisco, No. 12 Phoenix and No. 13 Seattle.

With that large population base, the new conference would start its own network and, along with other broadcast partners, likely would distribute around $20 million per member, comparable broadcast revenue to the Big Ten ($22 million) and SEC ($17 million), the source said.

The Big 12 distributed $7-12 million per year. The Pac-10 distributed $8-10 million.

The new conference would be split into divisions with the Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Colorado forming an Eastern Division with Arizona and Arizona State opposite the Pac-8 Western Division. The division champions would play at season's end for the conference championship, the source said.
 

AR182

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The Pac-10 announced in a news release Thursday that the league has officially added the University of Colorado as its 11th member.

Colorado becomes the league's first new member since 1978.

"This is an historic moment for the Conference, as the Pac-10 is poised for tremendous growth. The University of Colorado is a great fit for the conference both academically and athletically and we are incredibly excited to welcome Colorado to the Pac-10," said league commissioner Larry Scott in the league's statement.

Added Colorado president Bruce D. Benson:

"The University of Colorado is a perfect match - academically and athletically - with the Pac-10 our achievements and aspirations match those of the universities in the conference and we look forward to a productive relationship."

Scott and Benson will take part in a teleconference with media members Thursday at 1:30 EDT to discuss the move and will hold a press conference in Boulder, Colo., on Friday.


Colorado's addition gives the Pac-10 a total of 11 schools, but speculation persists that the league will also look to bring in Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech to give the conference 16 teams.

This news comes just shortly after reports surfaced of Nebraska planning to accept an invitation to the Big Ten, which the school's regents are scheduled to vote -- and likely announced publicly -- on Friday.

If by chance Nebraska's move to the Big Ten does not occur and the Cornhuskers remain in the Big 12 and that league remains intact, the San Jose Mercury News reports that the Pac-10 would then invite Utah to become the league's 12th team.
 
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