Parlay Information for newbies (and oldies!) about the capping of your payouts

[acehistr8]

I really hope Jack forgives me for posting this, but I wanted to bring it up mostly out of extreme personal frustration and also because I feel it is something people should be educated about (especially the newcomers) and not enough people ask about these things. Jack, if you feel you need to delete this please do. Also so you dont think I am harshing them, these two books are GREAT BOOKS! I just think this is one issue people need to know about. If you dont bet parlays, then you will probably still be very happy with them. I personal love Bestline and have been very happy with their customer service - Derrick is great about answering emails.

But I think a lot of people assume that when you bet a parlay at a site, you are getting back the odds you think you know, based on the payback chart and based on the game odds themselves. Turns out, you couldnt be further from the truth. A lot of sites cap your parlays. If your parlay is "juicy" say with three moneyline dogs, you wont win as much as you think you should be winning. These caps are based on a payout chart similar to what the parlay odds chart is, only this one is their "Payout Cap" chart for parlays - when you use any teams at greater than -110. Here are the 2-3-4 game caps for the two contest sponsors, but I have seen similar elsewhere so they are not unique in any way.

2 TEAMS 3.6-1
3 TEAMS 9-1
4 TEAMS 20-1

2 TEAMS 4-1
3 TEAMS 10-1
4 TEAMS 24-1

So on a basic two team parlay I am liable to play any night you get killed. Here's an example of a two dog parlay I won this week, the Mets at +177 and the Sox -1.5 at +135. Now at Pinnacle it was bet $20 to win $110.19. That is a true payout at 5.5095 -1 At Infinity I would have lost $38 on that one bet, at BestLine $30. Thats a significant percentage! Last week I won one the true payout at Pinnacle was 11.4 - 1 on a 3 teamer. On a $20 bet that would have been $55 or $35 LESS. I decided not to do the NFL contest this year based on the fact that if a book is limiting the wagers that you are succesful at, its not worth it to me. Too many other great sponsors to shop at.

Just disappointing and frustrating that some of the top books that combine, great lines and great service, cant be cajoled into sponsoring the contest. Personally I would love to have seen Pinnacle and Olympic step up. But of course I understand Jack did what had to be done and we are all better for it. Hell they are giving away $60,000!!!

Like I said, if you dont play parlays, none of this matter. But bottom line - if some of you like to take shots at parlays like this (and based on the posts I read in the forums I know there are a lot of you) I think its worth pointing out that a parlay at one book is in NO WAY the same as a parlay at the next. If you wonder before signing up with a sponsor, shoot them a quick note asking them if they payout true parlay odds with no cap. It only takes a minute and could save you down the road.

 

[timbo]

Funny, I was not going to bring this issue to the forum. When I went to their site and saw the cap on parlay payouts, I knew they were not for me.

 

[acehistr8]

I dont know why this should be hush-hush to talk about. This is a handicapping forum. We should discuss issues pertaining to handicapping. If there are rules out there that inhibit your ability to make money as a handicapper when another site wont, I think that should be information available to everyone. Or at least let people know of the issue so they can make a choice whether they want to find out or not.

 

[timbo]

Hey, they just don't want to get burned with a big payout from a small risk. I respect that. Me, personally, I am a square that bets small parlays and like ML dogs. For those that want reduced vig on straight wagers, it is definitely a place worth considering.

 

[acehistr8]

Believe me I understand WHY they do it, to reduce their risk. It doesnt mean people shouldnt know about it.

 

[yyz]

I, too, am shunning both contests this year.


Read this oldie!

 

[yyz]

By the way, as far as Jack deleting this thread, I doubt it. He wants books to advertise, but he wants happy posters, too.

Just because they advertise here, doesn't make them holy cows. If you are dealing from a stacked deck, you should get fingered!

I got some shit to sling about MVP, too, but I will wait until I have all my ducks in a row.................


Bottom line? We will play where you get treated fairly. Did you ever notice the books that don't offer all the bells and whistles are the most solid ones?

 

[acehistr8]

Bottom line? We will play where you get treated fairly. Did you ever notice the books that don't offer all the bells and whistles are the most solid ones?

You know I was just thinking the same thing. Pinnacle and Olympic are my two go-to rock solid books. But you never hear of wacky far-out deals/bells and whistles there. Just the best lines and best service.

Before I posted I emailed the 4 books asking about their policy. No joke, Pinnacle and Oly heard back within an hour. Bestline within a day. Never heard from Infinity.

Couldnt agree more yyz. But thats just my opinion.

 

[dawgball]

I understand your frustration about this issue, ace. It also needs to be pointed out that on Infinity's website, they are very up-front about this issue. It's like knocking a book that doesn't pay track odds for horse racing on long shots. You would be hard pressed to find them. Almost every book has caps on this.

Infinity's parlay payout page

It is in black and white for everyone to see. If someone doesn't read the rules before playing, the book can not be held responsible for their lack of responsibility.

I think this just gets back to that everyone has to decide what book fits their needs best. If you play ML dogs, then Inifinity is not right for you. As long as they pay quickly and handle customer service requests efficiently, then I don't feel that they should actually be knocked for something they are up-front with.

That being said, I completely agree with you (and I think Jack would, too) that if a book, sponsor or not, is a place of business and they should be ready for feedback, both positive and negative. This forum should serve as a venue for that.

I don't think you should have posted this in theGeneral Discussion area. There is a section for this kind of feedback. I think you probably posted here to get more attention for your comments.:shrug:

 

[acehistr8]

I think you probably posted here to get more attention for your comments

Absolutely. Not enough people read the Sportsbook forum and this is something people need to know before entering the contests. Ironic that looking back on it a year I thought the same thing then as I do now, yet in a year it almost had escaped me.

Does Infinity post these odds? Yes
Are they easy to find if you dig hard enough? Yes

So I dont think they are trying to hoodwink anyone, I dont think they are trying to deceive anyone about having caps but dawg I will quote myself from last year:

"My problem is, Infinity needs to state this (referring to the having of caps) then. They simply must, anything less is misleading your customers. You absolutely cannot tout "HOME OF THE WORLDS HIGHEST PARLAY ODDS" right there on your front page without the disclaimer: when you follow our very specific and probably confusing rules."

INFINITY IS NOT UP FRONT about this issue Dawg, I dont know how you can think that. They have rules yes. They post their rules, yes. But they are in no way up front about it they are on a page most of us would not check - and yes that is our fault. I dont mind a book having rules, I mean they have them and they print them. I DO think in this case they are still being misleading. If you are going to be right there in my face touting the highest parlay odds then YOU opened that door. You cant have it both ways, if you want to be so up front about being the worlds greatest at something you SHOULD have an asterisk that says "subject to maximum payout chart" or something along those lines. Otherwise your non-disclosure is tantamount to lying in my opinion.

Like I said, just my opinion a lot of people are happy with them and dont play dog ML parlays so wont get burned. Pinnacle and Olympic pay true odds so I will stick with them, dont think you can go wrong there. My point was really one of educating new players who play parlays in this manner - always find out before hand if the book you are playing with will cap your true payouts.

 

[dawgball]

Point taken. But they are certainly not the first company to try to market their business by telling potential clients their best attributes. I also don't think that one has to dig to find this information. If you click on the link that says Pay Off Odds, then it is right there in front of you. I don't think it is a big deal.

Your overall message is the right one in all walks of life. Always be a conscientous (sp?) consumer.

Good luck this season. I am looking forward to seeing your plays. I will not be participating in this discussion any further because I don't think it is worth our time. Football season is swiftly approaching!

 

[yyz]

Dawg, in my thread I took the ultimate blame, as their rules do state the parlay payoffs.

BUT, when I punch in a bet, and it computes the payoff at one price, then the company adjusts the payoff to meet the house rules, I think it's bullshit. Their software should not allow the wager to be made, or at least compute the payoff to what they will actually pay me for the bet.

I completely agree with Ace, that you can't claim to have the world's highest parlay odds, and then put in fine print that they don't pay even close to fair odds on some bets.

Buyer beware? I should say so!

What can I do about it? I voted with my feet, brother!

 

[acehistr8]

Right on board with you yyz, I voted with my feet as well. However I would be interested to know if the software still has this "problem" can anyon report on that? Reason I ask is this time last year as you read in that past thread, the owner called it a minor problem, a small issue, that they were working out that week or so - jack mentions in that thread talking to Charles(?) about it and he said it was being fixed.. I never bothered to follow up as I got out, but it would be interesting to know.

Anyway, dawg's 110% right, this is not worth dragging out. Just wanted it to be an informational session not a beatdown.

 

[dawgball]

I know I said I would not participate in this discussion, BUT --isn't there always one of those?

yyz--Now that is information that I did not know. I did not know that on the screen where you were placing the bet, it showed a different amount than you were actually going to be paid. That is misleading.

Voting with your feet is the most effective.

 

[INFINITY]

MAX PARLAY PAYOFF

MAX PARLAY PAYOFF

I know what you all would like to see is the cap on moneyline dog parlays removed altogather, unfortunately I can't help you there. Since the incident with YYZ last year though we have upgraded our system so it will not show you more than the cap. Last year when ever you play parlays though the system ALWAYS show you a message before confirming your wager " N.B. " IF ANY OTHER MONEYLINE THAN -110 IS INCLUDED PAYOUT MAY BE SUBJECT TO MAXIMUM PAYOUT." Even with our max payout clients reap the benefit of playing with us. This wager was graded yesterday.

Wager details for ticket number 13545402-2:

Wager Type: Parlay (10 team)
Wager Status: Win
Risk / To Win Amount: 393.00 / 145,638.89 (USD) Accepted 8/30/2003 6:32 PM
Amount Paid: 146,031.89


Item #1
Wager Type: Money Line
Outcome: Win
Sport / Period: MLB Baseball / Game
Line:
Toronto Blue Jays 8/30/2003 7:05:00 PM - EST
-107
Pitchers: C Lidle - Action Westbrook - Action

Item #2
Wager Type: Money Line
Outcome: Win
Sport / Period: MLB Baseball / Game
Line:
Philadelphia Phillies 8/30/2003 7:10:00 PM - EST
-110
Pitchers: R Wolf - Action T Glavine - Action

Item #3
Wager Type: Money Line
Outcome: Win
Sport / Period: MLB Baseball / Game
Line:
Los Angeles Dodgers 8/30/2003 10:10:00 PM - EST
-170
Pitchers: D Stark - Action K Ishii - Action

Item #4
Wager Type: Money Line
Outcome: Win
Sport / Period: MLB Baseball / Game
Line:
Minnesota Twins 8/30/2003 8:05:00 PM - EST
-170
Pitchers: Jo Santana - Action M Callaway - Action

Item #5
Wager Type: Spread
Outcome: Win
Sport / Period: College Football / Game
Line:
Houston U 8/30/2003 8:00:00 PM - EST
-3 -110

Item #6
Wager Type: Spread
Outcome: Win
Sport / Period: College Football / Game
Line:
Oregon 8/30/2003 9:00:00 PM - EST
-3 -105

Item #7
Wager Type: Spread
Outcome: Win
Sport / Period: College Football / Game
Line:
Florida State 8/30/2003 8:00:00 PM - EST
-16? -110

Item #8
Wager Type: Spread
Outcome: Win
Sport / Period: College Football / Game
Line:
Ohio State 8/30/2003 8:00:00 PM - EST
-9 -110

Item #9
Wager Type: Spread
Outcome: Win
Sport / Period: College Football / Game
Line:
Northwestern 8/30/2003 7:00:00 PM - EST
-7 -110

Item #10
Wager Type: Money Line
Outcome: Win
Sport / Period: MLB Baseball / Game
Line:
Oakland Athlectics 8/30/2003 9:05:00 PM - EST
-200
Pitchers: R Bell - Action T Lilly - Action

 

[acehistr8]

Re: MAX PARLAY PAYOFF

Re: MAX PARLAY PAYOFF

Even with our max payout clients reap the benefit of playing with us.

How does clipping people a significant percentage of their parlays benefit us? I dont see that at all.

If you want to be fair to your customers, you need to be honest in your advertising. Some guy that comes along who likes to play ML dogs in his parlays and sees HIGHEST PARLAY ODDS will think hes in for a good deal. Sure the onus is on the player to read all the rules first, but they shouldnt have someone lying to them upfront. Your highest odds proclamation should really have an asterisk next to it where you explain the cap on your odds. Anything else just is not being truthful in your advertising. Spin it however you want.

 

[yyz]

Re: MAX PARLAY PAYOFF

Re: MAX PARLAY PAYOFF

Last year when ever you play parlays though the system ALWAYS show you a message before confirming your wager " N.B. " IF ANY OTHER MONEYLINE THAN -110 IS INCLUDED PAYOUT MAY BE SUBJECT TO MAXIMUM PAYOUT."

That is complete bullshit! There was no message to indicate that.

Look, I'm not going to keep going round and round on this. I got my money in and out. You guys paid me, and that was that. People know where I stand on this matter, and they can choose to play with your outfit or not. I am done.

Hey, I'm glad the software has been fixed, so others won't go through the hassle, but still, I don't understand why some books would limit the payoff.

This is like playing blackjack at a 6:5 table.........It's the same game, with the same risk on my end, but a shitty payoff if I win.

No thanks, Andrew.

 

[kickserv]

why would anybody play where they don't get parlays at true odds :shrug:

if somebody is silly enough to play at a book where their odds are "clipped" then it is their fault :nono: Of course why any book would do this is beyond me.....but I'm sure they have their reasons

winning any parlay is hard enough........having a book "clip" you is just wrong.......


anyway...there's my two cents

 

[acehistr8]

winning any parlay is hard enough........having a book "clip" you is just wrong.......

Agree with both you guys obviously. More to the point I dont like them witholding the whole truth from their customers. People need to be told, right there where they get told they have the highest parlay odds, people need to also be told it is subject to max odds and a mx cap. They shouldnt have to go digging for this info. Otherwise this is the same as lying to your customers.

But its not worth getting huffed over, they dont care - they get new customers anyway having it the way they like it.

I voted with my wallet this year and bagged the NFL contest. Just not worth it to me to play at a book that treats people like this. Too many other good sponsors out there.