Payback Should Be Hell

dr. freeze

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i was referring that question for the world as a whole -- because Shrimp seems to think that it is justifiable to homicide bomb....

as far as that incident yesterday....unfortunate....but i think it was a setup....for one, what was a woman doing driving in Iraq? didn't think they are allowed to drive...

for two...that shows what happens when Iraq and homicide bombers do not follow rules of engagement....same things happen in Palestine.....asa result the US and Israel are forced to fire first and ask questions later

and FYI....i heard a missionary talk taht was recently in Palestine and he said that Muslims would go into the CHristian homes and fire at Israeli troops.....then the Israeli troops would bulldoze the CHRISTIAN home thinking they were Muslim homes....

if you are truly interested in protecting your women and children, you would follow the rules of war designed to protect your own citizenry...

the truth is, is that these animals are not interested in any of that...they just want to kill other people
 

TheShrimp

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I'm not sure specifically what you're asking.

I think the invaders should probably play pretty cautiosly however, especially when the goal is supposedly to liberate the civilians.

On the other hand, if my town were invaded by a technologically superior force, I hope that I'd use whatever means necessary to expel them -- hopefully making judgments based on the possibility that my actions could lead to more of my fellow citizens getting killed (which the Iraqis don't seem to be doing in some cases, notably the taxi suicide bomber, which has led to numerous civilian deaths because it spooked us).
 

rebel

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The Shrimp good posts

one question regarding the incidents of those civillian fatallities?

Will the families be able to sue the US Gov for compensation?

I saw the briefing today and Gen. Brooks said that some compensation had been given.

here in Sweden we dont have the same tradition of sueing like in the US, and if you sue, the amounts are very moderate to US.

example, one Man convicted of murder spent 8 year in jail he was now relesed and got the highest compensation ever awarded 910.000 USD. The claim was 3 million USD but lowered to 910.000

Also one thing about the US vs The Brits, have anyone else notised that the Brits have lost alot of men to US Blue on Blue, but i havent heard of a single US trooper shot by Brits also all the civillians killed in "accidents" are as far as i understand by US forces, Today the brits orderd helmets off and berets on to show Iraqis that they are on there side when patroling.

I think that maybe the experience fron N. Ireland with roadblocks and Kosovo have given the Brits an advantage over the Us forces that seem to bee a bit "green". also the Brits tradition as a colonian power i think makes their approach to Iraqis diffrent then US forces.

just me thinking out loud.
 

TheShrimp

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dr. freeze said:
i was referring that question for the world as a whole -- because Shrimp seems to think that it is justifiable to homicide bomb....
In a side note . . .

Don't use this moronic fox news expression "homocide bomb". All bombs are homocide bombs. They're designed to kill others.

The distinction with a bombing like the cab driver is that he killed himself in the process of bombing, hence a suicide bomb. If he jumped out of the car and let it roll up and then detonated, then you can call it a homocide bomb.

that's what you get when college sophomores write your copy, though.
 

dr. freeze

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no a BOMB that we have against Iraqi airports and other military targets is NOT a homicide bomb...

if you fail to make the distinction between the two, then you should try to pass the 2nd grade again
 

rebel

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dr. freeze said:


nah...just you demonstrating more of your hatred for the US

Frezee you are funny ..... have you heard of Sun Tzu's Art of War it was written 2400 years ago and many of the tactics used by the Iraqi forces are in that book.

Do you think that US Special forces and CIA paramilitary that has been reported working inside Baghdad are walking around killing in Uniform ?

Also have you heard of kamekazis?

If you blast a cafe of civillians, drop a bomb or shoot civillians it is Terrorism, if you hit invading troops, it is a legit target, even the "tribun of truth" centcom in Doha agreed on this.

you ask what is a Iraqi woman doing driving a car?

This shows how little you know of Iraq. these women dont walk around in burkas.

Iraqi baath party is Secular, Sociallist and Saddam is not religous thats something he invented to stire up fundamentalist support against Allies.

Iraq had free education and free healthcare, the biggest child health problem prior to Gulf 1 in Iraq was obecity. Today it is cancer because of the Du muitions that was left in Gulf1, wich in fact is breaking the Geneva convention to use Du. it is a wepon of mass destruction.

Also you and many think that the rest of the world would whant to be american. why? what is it in USA that i would possibly whant?

there are many things that you do have that we dont whant, kids that kill kids in school, crackheads, poverty, patriot act , but at the same this doesent mean that i hate US. I am just reflecting on this administration and its destructive behavior against you

you are funny frezee
 

TheShrimp

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Forget it rebel. He's all right to debate with when he's debating but then he just gets childish.

He apparently has had Iraq and Afghanistan confused all along with what he's written about the women of Iraq (which he appears to be an expert on because his girlfriend works with an Iraqi).
 

dr. freeze

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so now you Euros support the Chinese Art of War instead of the Geneva Convention??? lmao...i guess that justifies this...

or kamikaze's? the fact that Japan used kamikaze pilots in WWII justifies the Iraqi's dressing as civilians?

HEY REBEL.....WAKEUP AND SMELL THE COFFEE DUDE....THESE ACTIONS ARE GOING TO GET MORE IRAQI CITIZENS KILLED BECAUSE WE ARE FORCED TO SHOOT FIRST NOW AND ASK QUESTIONS LATER.....great tactic you are defending!!!!

And is the CIA walking around in Baghdad killing civilians??? hmmm...great point you make....they are probably interested in figuring out where UNcle Saddam is so that he will not kill more civilains in his wood chopper...

yeah you Euro's dont have to be the USA since we have so much poverty and crackheads over here....next time we will send our crackheads over to save your ass from being invaded maybe we need to take into consideration your thoughts of us frist
 

dr. freeze

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TheShrimp said:
Forget it rebel. He's all right to debate with when he's debating but then he just gets childish.

He apparently has had Iraq and Afghanistan confused all along with what he's written about the women of Iraq (which he appears to be an expert on because his girlfriend works with an Iraqi).

i like your condescending elitism Shrimp...you make for a good leftist....
 

TheShrimp

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dr. freeze said:

if you fail to make the distinction between the two, then you should try to pass the 2nd grade again

dr. freeze said:


i like your condescending elitism Shrimp...you make for a good leftist....
 

dr. freeze

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you on the other hand, think that the only ones who are "enlightened" are you leftists....THAT is elitist thinking

saying that a failure to make a distinction between bombing an airfield and homicide bombing warrants a clear failure of reasoning skills beyond the 2nd grade level....is not any more elitist then saying htat 2+2 does not equal 5
 

djv

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Guys I hate to say this. But helping my grandaughter with some of that new math they have now. I swear 2 & 2 = 5. :D
 

dr. freeze

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there are plenty of reasons why we should not be over there....but to litter this whole debate with things like "there is no difference among tactics used", "the USA is filled with crackheads, school killers, etc.etc.", and statements made which lead you to believe that Iraqi people are better off than the American people are preposterous
 

dr. freeze

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djv said:
Guys I hate to say this. But helping my grandaughter with some of that new math they have now. I swear 2 & 2 = 5. :D

lol...i agree....some textbooks actually DO teach this -- teach that 2+2= whatever you want it to be
 

just cover

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Shrimp- I believe that every American has the right to voice their opinion but my God do you evry single time have to "so called "debate against the US. I don't even know if you like being an American. Where do you live and where were you born. I really don't think you like the United States. When ever somebody makes any point about how bad Saddam is you almost defend him. The guy if you don't know is a shitbag. Enough said.

Rebel- If the whole world thought like you we would all be talking German. I think you are really from France. I don't think you have ever had one good thing to say about the US.

WOW...Some of the people around this forum just can't stop bashing America every chance they get. IF some people were so worried about the poor Iraqi's where was everyone when Saddam's regime was murdering, torturing, raping his own population the last 20 or 30 years.

Also doesn't the Muslim faith look down on murder. I believe a suicide bomber is performing murder isn't he or she. Why don't they just get on TV and burn themselves alive? That would get national exposure which is what they want right? Suicide bombing is nothing but a hate crime to me and some people defend this GET REAL.

Like I said before I hope some new eco-friendly alternative fuel is found and we can just let them all kill each other. Then every single person on this board who says we shouldn't be there and defending murderous dictators will be crying lets go help out our fellow man. AND I will bet rebel will posting why isn't the great USA with all its resources and military not doing anything about it.

May the coaltion forces come home safe...

just cover
 

djv

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Justcover you have it. Like I said above no black gold in the ground over there. Well it would still be tent city. And we would not be there right now.
 

rebel

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Just cover, at this moment i have my best friend on this board , Omar, on his way to a war that both he and i are against, i pray for a safe return for all troops.

The people fighting this war on all sides are not the ones making the decissions and the ones who do make them risk nothing, people on these board who are Pro-war have not signed up.

As many have said before, to disagree and say this war was unneccisary is not anti or unamerican, in fact it is in my opinon pro american to be concerned about allied lifes wasted in a war that could have been avoided. I think that the Bush doctrine of pre-emtive strikes against souverine countrys is a failure of diplomacy.

I care for all life and if i hated usa as you think i would be Pro-war on Iran, Syra, Russia, china, all the world. and as i posted in another thread (Iraq a week of war, i think). my small country is making money on this war because we are a nation of engeneers and good at that, we supply, armor and weapons. So you keep on supplying cannon fodder and we will make record profits.

I am pro selfdefence but i dont consider this war selfdefence by the US.

the reasons for this conflict have change day by day, it was WMD and then Saddam, then freedom for Iraq. tehn Al Queda and many claims have been proved to be false, the niger uran deals and even CIA said they had no proof of bin laden/saddam links. also the double standard the 687 resolution says that the ME should be free from WMD but noting is done to Israels WMD, nukes, If someone whants to portray themself as following resolutions and conventions then you cant pick and chose, it has to be 100% if the USA the most powerful nation on this planet whants respect it should be hard on all nations just the same and not play this game, of letting some of the hook, many resolutions have been vetod by US for Israel. here are some but have people that whant a solution screamed and changed name of american hamburger dressing to palestinian hamburger dressing, i think that kind of behaviour by your leaders now is embarasing.

Now frenchtoast is freedomtoast, so i guess french=freedom

The french asked for support in Dim bien phu but USA refused after that French warned US to go to vietnam what happend. what country in Europe do you think has the best knowledge of Arabs and have been to war with them too, i think even this time the French tried to Warn its brothers in US that this is going to be bad and for a long time.


Pardon my freedom ;) and spelling


freeze, im not justifing any atrocitys on anyside as you tried to say,

the truth is, is that these animals are not interested in any of that...they just want to kill other people

That is not truth, i tried to explane to you that the Iraqi forces are so much weaker then the Allies and that this is not an Muslim invention to trie and fight an stronger invasion this way, the Patriots of the revulotionary war used guellia taktics and where called terrorists by the brits. all restistance have plain clothes it is nothing new and collaborator have always been shot , in france the Vichy, in Norway the Quislings, in Italy facists by the communists everywhere but you make it sound like this has never ever happend anywhere in the history of mankind. do you agree, children soldiers are used all over Africa today, war is HELL and should not be started like this one was, War is serious and this one was rushed into, It is not only the dead and wounded, you have for a long time, maybe for life damaged phycologically young people(troops) that will suffer and the children of Iraq that have been under bombs and seen there relatives killed and maimed, my wife saw her grandmother killed by gov. thugs when she was 11. she was shoverd with her grandmothers blood and they shoot at her running and hiding in the bush, walking to school with rotting corps everywhere . those memories are there forever. how do you put a price on that, but of cource it is all saddams fault if he had only obeyed then no one would suffer, but this is not to take responcibility, the us gov said they knew all about his regime and then they should have known this shit would happen the way it is. and sent enough force to win this in 2 days not draging it out like this and make troops and civilians suffer, is it Saddams fault that the USA cant send a force big enough to defeat a 3 rate army and put a stop to this fast, no that blood is on this admins hands. and cutting the benfits of the veterans is not to show respect for those who faced the hard times of war.

you have to realice freeze that i dont hate you or the USA because i am agaist this war, Omar is too but he still whent there, i dont know why you are still here? Are you just yellow and sit in your house screaming for others blood, show me that you are brave and call marine and sign up.

I am proud of Omar and to be his friend, he is a smart guy and a great friend, and i am worried for him.



edited for spelling:rolleyes:
 
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TheShrimp

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JC -- just because you think "don't support war = bad american" doesn't make it so.

I have repeatedly said that saddam is a dictator, torturer, oppressor, despot. How you could possibly construe anything I've said as defending him is simply remarkable. Not attacking a person is NOT the same as defending him. Get that straight before you accuse me of it again.

Furthermore, I was born in Maine and live in Baltimore and never lived in any other country. I've lived in 4 different states for at least 2 years a piece. I've driven from Maine to Oregon and back again and been to about 40 states, 3 national parks, and 10 major cities. I love this country more than any person on this board. I like big cars, big TVs, Big Macs, Budweiser and baseball (that sounded gay, but whateever). And I thank the military for doing what they've done along the way to protect the luxury I live in.

The fact that people like me get our love for this country called into question by people like you because I don't support attacking another country that did nothing to us is one of the most sickening things to come out of this whole mess. It completely offeneds me, and I have no respect for the opinions of people who say it.

If you want to present to me GOOD SOLID arguments for why we should be killing innocent iraqis and getting US soldiers killed, I'll listen to them. But please do not resort to these "you must hate america" games because nothing could be further from the truth. It's a F.UCKING BULLSHIT statement used to attack a PERSON when you can't attack their arguments.
 
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