Penn State Penalties will be announced this morning

[fatdaddycool]

I think it is a publicity stunt to get the fans of everyone that hates Penn State on their side.

It is ridiculous to punish an institution for the actions of employees. Penn State didn't do a damn thing, it's employees did.

So should we just now be letting the Carolina Panthers back into league play after Rae Carruth? What about the Ravens, Titans, Jets. and every other team that has had a player or coach go astray of the law. The Saints got punished because the entire institution broke the rules of fair play and salary cap rules, not because what they did was a crime against society.

Don't get me wrong and I will say it again for the millionth time. I am not a Penn State fan and I have always disliked Joe Paterno, Rolltide even knows this as I use to tell him I hated him some time ago. I think Joe Paterno is guilty of a crime but he is dead. What the people that erected a statue on their property want to do with it is up to them. Ncaa is doing this simply for the favorable publicity and if you think anything else you are blind. Every action they have ever taken is about the money not the passion for the game. That is why I don't watch college football. Biggest scam on tv. As far as the sanctions go.............fine whatever...........wouldn't have affected the lives of the harmed one way or the other. Sanctions aren't helping the victims and if you think this is the only case of improprieties at a college campus.............well then you are just an idiot.

Either way, all the non PS fans get their wish and all the Penn State alums and students get to wear their Scarlet letter, good for you. You definitely get to point and say, at least I don't have to wear that and feel that much better about your self. Anyone that types that they are all sad for the poor helpless victims and yet couldn't care less about creating more innocent victims (albeit to a far lessor degree, not comparing the two just is no other word for victim) by the way of dashed dreams, is simply full of shit. Period. Full of shit. They don't want punishment they want public humiliation to be acknowledged and worn like a badge by the university because of their own reasons.
One more time. In the U.S we don't prosecute and punish the innocent, period. So all of you that are screaming to give the death penalty and you don't care about the kids at USC blah blah blah, I ask.......do you? How the hell do you say something like that when you are condoning the action? You want innocent young adults to sacrifice their dreams for the crimes of others, you didn't bat an eye when it happened before, you are happy it happened now, and you justify your misplaced anger by pointing out someone else? Really? Do you teach your children to do that? Do you tell little junior that if he gets caught talking in class to tell the teacher, "Yeah, well you didn't say anything when John was talking, so you can't say anything now"?
Same thing.

Go ahead and freak out now and tell me how screwed up I am for pointing out the truth you don't want to hear.

 

[lawtchan]

60 million fine..which is 12 million over 5 years goes to organizations to support the detection of child abuse

Penn state Bowl monies from big 10, about 13 million goes to charity

 

[layinwood]

It is ridiculous to punish an institution for the actions of employees. Penn State didn't do a damn thing, it's employees did.

So a coach should be able to cheat and the school not be punished? He is an employee as you say.

How about if a booster cheats and pays players? That's even further removed than an "employee" but the school still gets punished.

 

[Mr. Poon]

while true, they have to find a school with an open scholarship. if you are not a star, good luck with that.

transfers in this case should not count against allotments, and penn st should pay their way.

If they are on the roster at Penn State under scholarship, they will be able to find a place, even if it is at a tier below at a MAC school.

As for your suggestion of the transfers not counting against scholarships, though it is an interesting thought, wouldn't it create a competitive advantage for those schools? You could imagine a school nearby PSU like Pitt or Ohio State that recruits regularly against PSU gaining quite a few. The would end up with quite a bit more scholarship players over 4 years than some of their competition.

 

[fatdaddycool]

So a coach should be able to cheat and the school not be punished? He is an employee as you say.

How about if a booster cheats and pays players? That's even further removed than an "employee" but the school still gets punished.

Again, read what I wrote. What Joe Paterno did was a criminal act. He tampered with evidence, he withheld facts etcetera. That is criminal and has nothing to do with blocking and tackling.

I agree that withholding the facts and trying to cover it up was definitely done to prevent the shameful acts from coming to light and blemishing the school and his football program, however, do you really think sanctions will make Penn State more of a public pariah? What does it accomplish that the press hasn't already done. The program is ruined for all intensive purposes. Ruined. You really think they have any bowl games on their plate in the next ten years and if they do how do you think Fox sports will start that programming? Seriously, think about it with a completely clear and fair minded thought process. The crimes at Penn State have been investigated and the guilty are being punished according to our country's laws, in what other realm would any institution be forced into sanctions? Wall Street? NHL, NFL, NBA? Electric company? How about the guy that works for Direct TV selling free service on the side, if he gets caught should we cancel programming for everyone? No, the institution isn't alive and breathing and making decisions. You weren't part of the TV scam at Direct Tv so why should you bear the brunt of it?

 

[fatdaddycool]

If they are on the roster at Penn State under scholarship, they will be able to find a place, even if it is at a tier below at a MAC school.

As for your suggestion of the transfers not counting against scholarships, though it is an interesting thought, wouldn't it create a competitive advantage for those schools? You could imagine a school nearby PSU like Pitt or Ohio State that recruits regularly against PSU gaining quite a few. The would end up with quite a bit more scholarship players over 4 years than some of their competition.

So exactly how is this fair to those players? Aren't you the least bit curious as to what affect this transfer may have on their lives? These are just kids that are most likely going to go on to become the young professionals in our society and the only competitive edge I see happening is that every other student at every other school is going to be ahead of them academically after their transfer and they are also gong to be labeled as a PSU student at every other school. It is a fucking shame. I sure hope there aren't any past victims on the list of these unfortunate kids.

 

[The Boys]

Big 10 will announce their punishment today I think?

 

[Mr. Poon]

So exactly how is this fair to those players? Aren't you the least bit curious as to what affect this transfer may have on their lives? These are just kids that are most likely going to go on to become the young professionals in our society and the only competitive edge I see happening is that every other student at every other school is going to be ahead of them academically after their transfer and they are also gong to be labeled as a PSU student at every other school. It is a fucking shame. I sure hope there aren't any past victims on the list of these unfortunate kids.

Is it fair? 'Fair' is such a tough word to define, and whether something is 'fair'is subjective for everyone trying to define it.

Is it fair when a corporations CEO or Board makes fraudulent decisions and then some judiciary body hands down a decision that impacts common workers?

And I'm not understanding your argument that if a student is transferring they are going to be behind academically. If they are truly at schools for academics, they would transfer to another university in which their academic route isn't severely altered.

 

[Mr. Poon]

Big 10 will announce their punishment today I think?

Already did, post-season ban of 4 years goes for Big Ten title game as well. Also the $ that PSU would get from bowl revenue will now go to charities.

 

[marine]

I've said this 5 times on here. Why didn't they disclose in the first place? To protect the football program. Why else would they have? If JoePa had reported it in 1998, he would have been the hero, not the villian.

Stop forgetting that the police and AG actually did conduct an investigation into this in 1998 when it happened.

 

[fatdaddycool]

Is it fair? 'Fair' is such a tough word to define, and whether something is 'fair'is subjective for everyone trying to define it.

Is it fair when a corporations CEO or Board makes fraudulent decisions and then some judiciary body hands down a decision that impacts common workers?

And I'm not understanding your argument that if a student is transferring they are going to be behind academically. If they are truly at schools for academics, they would transfer to another university in which their academic route isn't severely altered.

Yeah, I agree that it is subjective and a lot of arguments can be made for both sides. My point is that if we strip away all the emotions and public outcry, we are still tasked as a society to protect the innocent and punish the guilty. I don't believe that the punishment phase was ever intended to harm the not guilty. Period. The NCAA is not acting towards everyone's best interest, period. They are simply responding to the public, which doesn't surprise me, in order to create a stronger stranglehold on college athletes. What people forget is this now sets a precedence for what the NCAA will now consider their domain of rule. This just sets the table for more money their way in the way of fines for future incidents at all schools. It won't stop here. Someday, these same individuals are going to be complaining when their school gets sanctioned because some players got too rough with a college girl or something. NCAA has bridged the gap between crime on competitive edge. Be careful what you ask for.

 

[layinwood]

As for your suggestion of the transfers not counting against scholarships, though it is an interesting thought, wouldn't it create a competitive advantage for those schools? You could imagine a school nearby PSU like Pitt or Ohio State that recruits regularly against PSU gaining quite a few. The would end up with quite a bit more scholarship players over 4 years than some of their competition.

There's a very good reason they can transfer and it not count against a schools scholarship count THIS year. If they didn't do that then there wouldn't be enough schools that have room for these kids. Most programs run at a full capacity as far as available scholarships go. Now after this year it goes against their count so they won't be able to bring in as many freshman next year. It's the only fair way to do it for the current Penn State players wanting to transfer.

 

[layinwood]

FDC, I did read what your wrote and that's why I replied.

You said "It is ridiculous to punish an institution for the actions of employees. Penn State didn't do a damn thing, it's employees did."

Why is it ridiculous? It happens everyday in college sports. It's called institutional control or in this case lack there of.

 

[Bombs]

Again, read what I wrote. What Joe Paterno did was a criminal act. He tampered with evidence, he withheld facts etcetera. That is criminal and has nothing to do with blocking and tackling.

I agree that withholding the facts and trying to cover it up was definitely done to prevent the shameful acts from coming to light and blemishing the school and his football program, however, do you really think sanctions will make Penn State more of a public pariah? What does it accomplish that the press hasn't already done. The program is ruined for all intensive purposes. Ruined. You really think they have any bowl games on their plate in the next ten years and if they do how do you think Fox sports will start that programming? Seriously, think about it with a completely clear and fair minded thought process. The crimes at Penn State have been investigated and the guilty are being punished according to our country's laws, in what other realm would any institution be forced into sanctions? Wall Street? NHL, NFL, NBA? Electric company? How about the guy that works for Direct TV selling free service on the side, if he gets caught should we cancel programming for everyone? No, the institution isn't alive and breathing and making decisions. You weren't part of the TV scam at Direct Tv so why should you bear the brunt of it?

if the leadership of a company covered up child sexual abuse occurring on their premises under their watch, then yes, absolutely without a doubt they should be shut down.

its not like sandusky acted alone and the university was just a bystander. if that was the case, then punish only him. THEY KNEW ABOUT IT AND DIDN'T JUST DROP THE BALL THEY HANDED IT TO SANDUSKY AND LET HIM RUN FOR REPEATED TOUCHDOWNS.

 

[fatdaddycool]

FDC, I did read what your wrote and that's why I replied.

You said "It is ridiculous to punish an institution for the actions of employees. Penn State didn't do a damn thing, it's employees did."

Why is it ridiculous? It happens everyday in college sports. It's called institutional control or in this case lack there of.

I didn't mean re-read it as a slam. Because it is like blaming your comb for a bad hair day?!?! That's why. The institution is not alive and therefore cannot be responsible for it. As far as companies getting shutdown, they do not. Unless it is a business owner that is guilty of a crime, then it might get shutdown but they don't shut down or penalize every damn Burger King that employs a drug dealer and it is the exact same premise.

 

[fatdaddycool]

if the leadership of a company covered up child sexual abuse occurring on their premises under their watch, then yes, absolutely without a doubt they should be shut down.

its not like sandusky acted alone and the university was just a bystander. if that was the case, then punish only him. THEY KNEW ABOUT IT AND DIDN'T JUST DROP THE BALL THEY HANDED IT TO SANDUSKY AND LET HIM RUN FOR REPEATED TOUCHDOWNS.

Well then those leaders would be prosecuted but the owner, if not involved, would be left to run his business as he should be. What you don't understand apparently is that I don't see how you think that their actions represent the entire university's level of involvement. You keep saying they? Surely you don't mean the entire PSU University knew about it because that is simply untrue. Who is they? The ones being prosecuted? They are people, not a university. you are talking about the actions of individuals that failed miserably at the job they were hired to do so they were let go. That is how it works brother. What you are asking for is a police state to go in there and eliminate all those that wear the PSU moniker and I disagree. If that's the case too bad Pol Pot isn't available to run the NCAA

 

[layinwood]

Well then those leaders would be prosecuted but the owner, if not involved, would be left to run his business as he should be. What you don't understand apparently is that I don't see how you think that their actions represent the entire university's level of involvement. You keep saying they? Surely you don't mean the entire PSU University knew about it because that is simply untrue. Who is they? The ones being prosecuted? They are people, not a university. you are talking about the actions of individuals that failed miserably at the job they were hired to do so they were let go. That is how it works brother. What you are asking for is a police state to go in there and eliminate all those that wear the PSU moniker and I disagree. If that's the case too bad Pol Pot isn't available to run the NCAA

Do you think this coming out after the second time it happened would have hurt recruiting? Former coach caught raping a young man was allowed to keep his keys to the facility and ended up raping another young man there. IMO that hurts recruiting, what's yours?

 

[fatdaddycool]

Do you think this coming out after the second time it happened would have hurt recruiting? Former coach caught raping a young man was allowed to keep his keys to the facility and ended up raping another young man there. IMO that hurts recruiting, what's yours?

Earlier you stated that you read my post yet I clearly stated in it this, "I agree that withholding the facts and trying to cover it up was definitely done to prevent the shameful acts from coming to light and blemishing the school and his football program,"

So maybe you missed that part or simply overlooked it to make your statement above have more strength. Either way you looked past something in order to help your cause. Sound familiar? I am NOT putting child abuse and you overlooking my post after I asked you to re-read it on the same level. I am merely making the point that you overlooked something detrimental to your position versus mine, what sanctions will you be suffering?

Look, the school's recruiting class in the future is forever ruined, anything the NCAA does pales in comparison to the irreparable harm already caused by the scandal. Any person that thinks sanctions is going to provide any kind of relief to the victims is a damn fool. Why nobody is screaming that they should be allowed to compete, have television coverage etcetera and forced to pay all monies received in to an awareness fund is beyond me. I would rather see the innocent men involved in the program be given the opportunity to make some real contributions to child molestation awareness and see the school become a National leader in raising funds for the victims of such abuse. What has now happened is the NCAA has taken away the one thing that the "institution" can contribute and turn around for the better.

My point is that people are seeing red and want blood but aren't using common sense because they all want to be the most sympathetic and the most caring person ever. Funny how none of this conversation on any of the thousand threads about this subject mention continuing care for the victims and what PSU is going to do to raise awareness on the subject. Hell, nobody even asked what changes they made to ensure that this would never happen again.

I already answered your question about the cover up. Of course they covered it up to protect the program and the school, no shit. That is an error in judgement, it just has higher consequences this time because everybody is trying to be the moral superhero instead of actually worrying about what is next for the victims. I think it would be nice if people would start thinking about the victims instead of being right.


Hope that helps,
FDC

 

[layinwood]

FDC, EXACTLTY my man. You couldn't have said it any better.

"I agree that withholding the facts and trying to cover it up was definitely done to prevent the shameful acts from coming to light and blemishing the school and his football program,"

So today the NCAA told those victims that they won't stand for this even though the heads of Penn State did. Football isn't bigger than boys being raped. If you think it is then we'll destroy your program.

No they can't take back what was done to these children but they sent a message to them telling them that they had their back and they won't let this happen again.

 

[fatdaddycool]

FDC, EXACTLTY my man. You couldn't have said it any better.

"I agree that withholding the facts and trying to cover it up was definitely done to prevent the shameful acts from coming to light and blemishing the school and his football program,"

So today the NCAA told those victims that they won't stand for this even though the heads of Penn State did. Football isn't bigger than boys being raped. If you think it is then we'll destroy your program.

No they can't take back what was done to these children but they sent a message to them telling them that they had their back and they won't let this happen again.

My guess is they would have appreciated some restitution and a full ride to themselves and their kids in ten years a lot more than them not playing football in a bowl game for four years. My guess is they are probably unmoved by the actions of the NCAA just as I am. They overlooked the real fix and went with the popular one. Like I said, the NCAA had the opportunity to put real money, millions and millions, into awareness and prevention, and do it on the necks of the University's program but instead they took the road that would gain them more atta boys in the public thereby strengthening their position as the largest operating monopoly in the US. This was not a decision of what the right thing to do is, it was a decision of what is best for the NCAA's program and the broadening of power. Their entire thought process in my opinion was "this decision and sanction provides us with public support". People will support the decision and the sanctions because they wanted blood from PSU right now and once again the real victims are forgotten about, this time by you and everybody else that insisted on the rush to sanction rather than thinking about what is best for the victims. What is best for the victims damn sure isn't suspending football. Sorry but that isn't going to change either, so don't say that the NCAA sent a message to the victims, they sent it to the press and the people like yourself that have demanded blood because of their own personal reasons. You may not agree with me on that but I guarantee that you didn't like Penn State or joepa prior to this and your tune would be different if it were Texas Tech. I don't know that at all, that is just my observation, gathered from the fact that you never even mentioned the victims in any of your posts until I did. Don't take this the wrong way either, I am not saying you don't care about the victims. I am sure you do and would be willing to prove it to anyone willing to listen, as long as it results in Penn State football getting shutdown. That is your main concern in all of your posts.

Hope that helps,
FDC