People like this writer do not deserve to live here...

Wilson

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This is from http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/04/29/4090744e398cd?in_archive=1


By Rene Gonzalez
April 28, 2004



When the death of Pat Tillman occurred, I turned to my friend who was watching the news with me and said, "How much you want to bet they start talking about him as a 'hero' in about two hours?" Of course, my friend did not want to make that bet. He'd lose. In this self-critical incapable nation, nothing but a knee-jerk "He's a hero" response is to be expected.

I've been mystified at the absolute nonsense of being in "awe" of Tillman's "sacrifice" that has been the American response. Mystified, but not surprised. True, it's not everyday that you forgo a $3.6 million contract for joining the military. And, not just the regular army, but the elite Army Rangers. You know he was a real Rambo, who wanted to be in the "real" thick of things. I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures. Well, he got his wish. Even Rambo got shot in the third movie, but in real life, you die as a result of being shot. They should call Pat Tillman's army life "Rambo 4: Rambo Attempts to Strike Back at His Former Rambo 3 Taliban Friends, and Gets Killed."

But, does that make him a hero? I guess it's a matter of perspective. For people in the United States, who seem to be unable to admit the stupidity of both the Afghanistan and Iraqi wars, such a trade-off in life standards (if not expectancy) is nothing short of heroic. Obviously, the man must be made of "stronger stuff" to have had decided to "serve" his country rather than take from it. It's the old JFK exhortation to citizen service to the nation, and it seems to strike an emotional chord. So, it's understandable why Americans automatically knee-jerk into hero worship.

However, in my neighborhood in Puerto Rico, Tillman would have been called a "pendejo," an idiot. Tillman, in the absurd belief that he was defending or serving his all-powerful country from a seventh-rate, Third World nation devastated by the previous conflicts it had endured, decided to give up a comfortable life to place himself in a combat situation that cost him his life. This was not "Ramon or Tyrone," who joined the military out of financial necessity, or to have a chance at education. This was a "G.I. Joe" guy who got what was coming to him. That was not heroism, it was prophetic idiocy.

Tillman, probably acting out his nationalist-patriotic fantasies forged in years of exposure to Clint Eastwood and Rambo movies, decided to insert himself into a conflict he didn't need to insert himself into. It wasn't like he was defending the East coast from an invasion of a foreign power. THAT would have been heroic and laudable. What he did was make himself useful to a foreign invading army, and he paid for it. It's hard to say I have any sympathy for his death because I don't feel like his "service" was necessary. He wasn't defending me, nor was he defending the Afghani people. He was acting out his macho, patriotic crap and I guess someone with a bigger gun did him in.

Perhaps it's the old, dreamy American thought process that forces them to put sports greats and "larger than life" sacrificial lambs on the pedestal of heroism, no matter what they've done. After all, the American nation has no other role to play but to be the cheerleaders of the home team; a sad role to have to play during conflicts that suffer from severe legitimacy and credibility problems.

Matters are a little clearer for those living outside the American borders. Tillman got himself killed in a country other than his own without having been forced to go over to that country to kill its people. After all, whether we like them or not, the Taliban is more Afghani than we are. Their resistance is more legitimate than our invasion, regardless of the fact that our social values are probably more enlightened than theirs. For that, he shouldn't be hailed as a hero, he should be used as a poster boy for the dangerous consequences of too much "America is #1," frat boy, propaganda bull. It might just make a regular man irrationally drop $3.6 million to go fight in a conflict that was anything but "self-defense." The same could be said of the unusual belief of 50 percent of the American nation that thinks Saddam Hussein was behind Sept. 11. One must indeed stand in awe of the amazing success of the American propaganda machine. It works wonders.

Al-Qaeda won't be defeated in Afghanistan, even if we did kill all their operatives there. Only through careful and logical changing of the underlying conditions that allow for the ideology to foster will Al-Qaeda be defeated. Ask the Israelis if 50 years of blunt force have eradicated the Palestinian resistance. For that reason, Tillman's service, along with that of thousands of American soldiers, has been wrongly utilized. He did die in vain, because in the years to come, we will realize the irrationality of the War on Terror and the American reaction to Sept. 11. The sad part is that we won't realize it before we send more people like Pat Tillman over to their deaths.

Rene Gonzalez is a UMass graduate student

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
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dr. freeze

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this is the kind of thought that our tax dollars cultivate after wacko left wing communist professors are hired to brainwash young minds across the country
 

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
i wonder why

i wonder why

this "enlightened guy" is schooling on the mainland....there`s always the universidad de puerto rico....

"I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures".....

the rambo thing is so easy....it`s so easy to not look a little deeper...why am i not surprised he`s a cnn afficionado...

last time i looked,tillman was an excellent student...i `d guess,infinitely more accomplished and multi-faceted than young mr puerto rico...supposition...but,the odds,i believe are with me(lol)

but,in all honesty,what did we expect.....he`s just another product of liberal academia.....massachusetts at that...it`s a nice fit...

"Matters are a little clearer for those living outside the American borders". ....

ain`t that always the case......sheesh...that`s what the french say...



he should thank his lucky stars that p.r. is a territory of this horrible country...

"pendejo"....i think i`ll throw in an "idiota" for good measure...
 
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Mjolnir

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i love it when a-holes like this have to grace us with there incredible insight. thank god we have them for such incredible wisdom. maybe when there done picking up ther children from the Michael Jackson day care center they can drive straight into the ocean.
piece of shit.
i would love to meet this progressive thinker in a dark alley.
:thefinger
 

Turfgrass

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Lib website yanks
Pat Tillman 'hate'
Page linked to Teresa Heinz Kerry says comments became 'disruptive'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: April 29, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern



? 2004 WorldNetDaily.com


Saying comments about the death of Pat Tillman had become "disruptive," an anti-globalist website linked to Teresa Heinz Kerry has removed a hate-filled thread assaulting the memory of the ex-NFL player who became an Army Ranger.


The Portland, Ore., branch of the Independent Media Center originally ran the headline "Dumb Jock Killed in Afghanistan" above a story by the Washington Post about Tillman's death last week in a firefight with militia forces in Afghanistan.

The website was filled with comments affirming the headline, and adding others.

One suggested an alternative headline, " ? or, how about, 'privileged millionaire, blinded by nationalist mythology, pisses away the good life.'"

Another suggestion: "'Citizen of empire allows ignorance to cause him to die for imperialism' or maybe ... Capitalist chooses to kill innocents instead of cashing check."

Commenting on the article's reference to a "brave American," a reader replied: "'brave'???? for going over to Afghanistan completely uninvited and slaughtering brown-skinned people with advanced weaponry?"

Another said: "Tillman chose to go to Afghanistan. He's partially reponsible [sic] for the deaths of hundreds, maybe thousands of Afghan civilians. No need to feel sorry for him, other than feeling bad that he was brainwashed into serving as a grunt."

Tillman has been lauded by many Americans, including President Bush, as a hero for walking away from a $3.6 million contract in the prime of his football career to join units serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In the wake of news coverage by WorldNetDaily and talk-radio shows across the U.S., the Independent Media Center has removed both the original news article and the subsequent thread containing the opinions.

The website has now posted a new discussion about Tillman, stating the previous opinions would no longer be viewable:


As evidenced by a lot of posts and comments, many people in the broader community have wished to have a discussion about Pat Tillman and whether or not being a soldier is a noble pursuit. Here in the local Portland community we are dealing with the very serious issues of police violence and the accountability to that violence. Though it is awesome to see many people across the country participating in indymedia as posters and commentors, the number and nature of the posts about the Pat Tillman article has become disruptive. They have basically just been a re-hash of, "He's a hero" vs. "No, he's not."
A further clarification states, "This move is purely practical. When 100 people are shouting in a room about a topic and all trying to be heard, no one will be heard. ... It is only about the shear [sic] number of postings and comments, not their content."

The site is also redirecting the original thread concerning Tillman to another location, providing an explanation about its service of "open publishing."

"Indymedia relies on the people who post to present their information in a thorough, honest, accurate manner, but has no control over what people post," the page explains. "After an article has been posted, it can be removed from the Newswire and placed in the compost bin."

Reactions to the website's decision to yank the controversial thread are now being posted on the new Tillman discussion page, some of which include:


I think it was a mistake to remove the article, since now I only have the most hateful comments to go on. And I have no choice but to associate these vile comments with Indymedia, since I have no way of knowing they weren't in lockstep with the original article. Flushing articles down the memory hole can backfire.

I also think it is censorship, imposed by this website not because they found anything in the original postings reprehensible, but instead because of the negative attention that was focused on the website.

Isn't it nice that you can sit in front of your computer and post nasty remarks about the people that provide you with the freedom that you take for granted? Isn't it wonderful that you have enough freedom to insult the people that fight and die for your right to call them baby killers? I also have freedom. I have the freedom to call all of you misguided idiots. I have the freedom to tell you to be ashamed of yourselves.
The nonprofit Tides Foundation, heavily financed by Teresa Heinz Kerry, contributed $5,000 to the Washington, D.C. branch of the Independent Media Center, according to its 2001/2002 annual report [pdf].
 
P

PRO190

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However, in my neighborhood in Puerto Rico, Tillman would have been called a "pendejo," an idiot.

This was a "G.I. Joe" guy who got what was coming to him.

In your slum he would have been called an Idiot b/c he decided not to be a siphon on society as you scum are..I'm sure this puke had a 2.0 gpa but played the poor minority card to get a free ride into school.
Tillman had a 3.8 gpa while playing a varsity sport, then gave back to his country and its people ,while this punk skates the smooth path laid down by the Blood of Tillman and all the others who have served and died..

This puke Gonzalez and Mjalam should save everyone the misery of their verbal swill and plant one in their melon!
Then at least someone will have truely got what was coming to them!








:gf: :gf:
 

Turfgrass

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Pay close attention to the last two paragraphs.....

ON THE HOME FRONT
Seattle sign cheers
U.S. enemies
Window front on major street: "Victory to the Iraqi Resistance''

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: April 29, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Art Moore
? 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

As U.S. troops engage radical Islamic insurgents in Iraq, passersby on a major thoroughfare near downtown Seattle this week will notice a sign in a window front that urges: "Victory to the Iraqi Resistance."


New Freeway Hall in Seattle

The sign appears on the New Freeway Hall Community Center on multi-ethnic Rainier Avenue, home of the local branch of the Freedom Socialist Party.

Luma Nichol, Seattle organizer of the party, told WorldNetDaily her group put up the sign because there has been a "distortion of the truth" about the Iraq war, and "we want to educate our neighbors."

She said the reaction to the sign, noted by a contributor to FreeRepublic.com, has been much more positive than negative.

"There is a lot of opposition to the war," she told WND. "A lot of people understand that what the U.S. government is doing is a hostile invasion that violates the sovereignty of the Iraqi people."

However, Tuesday, she said, a "not very eloquent person" telephoned and "called us all a bunch of fags, which is not very conducive to debate."

But some opponents would call wishing victory for an enemy of the United States an act of sedition, she acknowledged when asked.

"I'm sure there are some people that would see it that way, but the U.S. is the aggressor in this situation and in the wrong," she said.

"A people whose country is being invaded and colonized by a hostile force have a right to defend themselves ? that is what people did in World War II, and I stand on the side of the victims not the aggressors," Nichol declared.

She said she agrees with people who call the ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein a "dictator and vicious man."

"But I don't believe that the U.S. government wants to bring liberty and democracy to Iraq," she said. "They have their own agenda ? oil, making money for Halliburton and other firms. There is no evidence that the U.S. has the interest of the Iraqi people at heart."

It's up to the Iraqi people to deal with their own dictator, she asserted.

"How would you feel if somebody said Dick Cheney is a threat to democracy and invaded our country?"

Nichol explained her group is a "socialist, feminist political party" that has been active in the U.S. for more than 30 years. As part of the Trotskyist wing of communism, it is distinguished from the Communist Party U.S.A. she said, "calling for socialist democracy in opposition to Stalinism."

There isn't a country in the world that practices her party's model for government, she said, but Cuba comes the closest.
 
P

PRO190

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Turfgrass said:
Pay close attention to the last two paragraphs.....

ON THE HOME FRONT
Seattle sign cheers
U.S. enemies
Window front on major street: "Victory to the Iraqi Resistance''

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: April 29, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Art Moore
? 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

There isn't a country in the world that practices her party's model for government, she said, but Cuba comes the closest.


And look how Well they live in Cuba: Where do these people like LUMA NICHOL come from:eek:
 

Eddie Haskell

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Al-Qaeda won't be defeated in Afghanistan, even if we did kill all their operatives there. Only through careful and logical changing of the underlying conditions that allow for the ideology to foster will Al-Qaeda be defeated.

Excellent point.

Eddie
 

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
the only way

the only way

to change the "underlying conditions that allow for the ideology to foster" would be to somehow destroy all the medrassas....

many of the taliban were educated in saudi-financed madrassas in pakistan that teach wahhabism, a particularly austere and rigid form of islam which is rooted in saudi arabia.....

the scenes of imams in mosques and on palestinian television telling children that "paradise is open now", and promising "blessings to whoever puts on a suicide belt", are not manufactured images. this as bad as any child abuse that can be imagined,imo.

they are attacks not only on america, not only on the west, but on the entire international community, including non-extremist muslims.

it`s not what we do that these fanatics object to.....it`s because "we are"....

take for example the recent attack on the u.n. complex in syria....i have no use for the u.n.,but,the attack on the u.n. was an attack on the men and women who were working to improve the lives of people the world over..... . Like those who were killed in bali and in new york, they died because the terrorist groups responsible are gripped by a terrible, fundamentalist, life-denying interpretation of islam, which they wish to spread worldwide, and that defines as enemies all who do not subscribe to it.



In the madrassas of pakistan, small boys don`t learn science or math....they spend years memorising the koran and graduate to join the taliban. In religious schools across the middle east and south-east asia, children are brainwashed into believing that killing people by killing themselves will make them heroes and gain them eternal paradise.......

the "underlying condition" that you speak of is the perversion of what is,by all accounts, a peaceful religion...

thanks pamela..
 
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AR182

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here is an article by the school president responding to the student's article.


UMass president criticizes student's column on felled soldier

By Associated Press | April 29, 2004

AMHERST -- A University of Massachusetts graduate student who wrote a campus newspaper column saying former NFL player Pat Tillman was not a hero for being killed while fighting in Afghanistan was sharply criticized Thursday by the school's president.

UMass president Jack Wilson issued a statement saying Rene Gonzalez' comments in The Daily Collegian "are a disgusting, arrogant and intellectually immature attack on a human being who died in service to his country."

In his column, which ran Wednesday on the opinion page and was posted on the newspaper's Web site, Gonzalez called the former Arizona Cardinals safety a "G.I. Joe guy who got what was coming to him."

"That was not heroism," Gonzalez wrote. "It was prophetic idiocy."

His column, which ran next to a column praising Tillman as a hero, also criticizes America's military response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

Tillman, the San Jose, Calif., native who gave up his NFL career to join the Army Rangers in 2002, was killed in combat April 22 in Afghanistan.

While recognizing Gonzalez' right to free speech, Wilson said the student owes Tillman a "debt of gratitude," and said he should apologize to Tillman's friends and family.

The state Senate on Thursday approved a resolution of condemnation, with one member, Sen. Robert Hedlund, R-Weymouth, calling Gonzalez a "nitwit."

Jared Nokes, president of the Student Government Association, also issued a statement condemning Gonzalez' column.

Gonzalez did not respond to telephone and e-mail messages left Thursday by The Associated Press.

In a response to the controversy generated by the column, the paper's editorial board ran a letter to readers in Thursday's edition saying Gonzalez's views do not reflect The Collegian's opinion.

"We do not hold back from printing news stories, columns or editorials that may upset our readership -- instead, we seek to both inform and stir debate through our publication," the letter said. "Our decision to publish Gonzalez' column -- an opinion piece written by a member of our campus community -- is the only way for us to live up to this ideal."
 

TossingSalads

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Pat Tillman is a hero. The fact that he left the money on the table to serve is the bravest thing I have ever witnessed. I would love to know how he felt about the 700 million and countless troops that were meant to help him in afghanistan to destry alqaeda, that were siphoned to plan for the War on oil in Iraq.
 

trademaster

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In the madrassas of pakistan, small boys don`t learn science or math....they spend years memorising the koran and graduate to join the taliban. In religious schools across the middle east and south-east asia, children are brainwashed into believing that killing people by killing themselves will make them heroes and gain them eternal paradise.......



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



btw Pat Tillman is nothing special then everyone else who has died for there country;) ...whatever there country may be;)
 

Eddie Haskell

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Weas:

I can't say that I disagree with anything you posted in this thread. However, I am not certain that the author of that article was referring to underlying conditions within extreme and fundamentalist Islam or whether he was referring to underlying conditions imposed upon Moslems by the third world, ie. international corporate expansion.

Unlike most of the Hitlerian thugs on this board, I believe we should try to understand both the foreign and internal enemies of this country in addition to looking at our own shortcomings. With such knowledge we can defeat the "real" enemies of freedom, whether they are on foreign shores, in a cave in Afghanastan, Wall Street or Washington, DC.

Ed
 

djv

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Somehow everyone wants to make Tillman hero for the wrong reason. Money. That's what you here so much of. He is the same hero as all those that have died all 700 and some. Keep tieing it to money and you just cheepen him. Soldiers we have been told fight for our freedom. In most cases that Is true. Since Iraq was no threat to our freedom. It is said our men are dieing for Iraqies freedom. It's to bad we need to do it under BS reason. It's also to bad we need to do it for them when they would not do it for themselfs. Lets face it folks we had soemone invade the U S. Don't you think we would all go down dieing. I think so and it would be about freedom not money.
And yes we better find away to start changing afew minds in this world. Time to ask why so many hate us and deal with it.
 

Eddie Haskell

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DJV:

I'm not sure how I feel about Tillman other than it was, like the thousands of other dead Americans and Iraqi's, a waste. I think we like to deify a lot of people in this country with the word hero. My definition of hero was that guy back in the 80's who jumped in the freezing Potoma after that Value Jet (I think crash) and pulled several people out of the water.

After he did that, he avoided the media, didn't give interviews, ran from the limelight. To me that type of behavior represents true heroism. He just did the right thing for the right reason. I respect this Tillman guy for giving up a lot to fight for what he believed in. That statement alone makes me all the more angry at that criminal in DC for killing these people.

However, a lot of the Americans in Iraq are giving up a lot also. He can't be deified or called a hero any more or less than anyone else over there otherwise you cheapen their lives and efforts. I'm just not sure if the word hero applies

Eddie
 

yyz

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I find it ironic (then again, I don't), that this guy uses all the standard "liberal" cliches when reffering to Tillman and the government for which he was serving.

He uses those cliches, to point out the "Rambo-esque" cliches of Tillman and his "ilk".

I'm sure that he thought his editorial was his own "free thinking", when it was just as much brainwashed crap as he accused the Tillman's of the world of having.

Like everyone else, he has an opinion, and nothing more. He has no first hand knowledge of what is going on over there, or why we are there.


Maybe he never read his history books in one of PR's broken down schools? (But.....I can safely assume he went to a decent school, 'cause mommy and daddy make some pretty mean green if he is attending a US college!)

I guess he would feel better if Spain still ran his little lemonade stand of a country? Then he could be a citizen of Spain, instead of the US. If history is correct, his great grand parents were pretty happy when the U.S. took over that toilet a hundred years ago! Maybe if his grandpa's generation would have thought like this clown, they would still be pissing on trees?

Wake up!
 

broondog

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First of all, to this Miss Gonzalez: she stated she's from Puerto Rico, why is she in the States???? I mean , if we're all that bad, wouldn't our education and freedom to write B.S. letters like this be wrong?
Pat Tillman is no more a hero than John or Jane Doe from Smalltown U.S.A. I understand he gave up millions but, he served with his heart and for that....may GOD rest his soul.
Did someone post a story by Teresa Heinz KERRY??????
Better think about that last name come November folks, if you're apalled at this "college" chicks view of this country:nono:
 
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