Pete Rose trial on ESPN

[acehistr8]

I didnt see another thread on this, hope there wasnt one.

Did anyone else watch this last night?

Interesting the way the vote came out. 8-4 in favor of him being eligible to be elected into the HoF, 11-1 still believe he bet on baseball. One thing I learned last night is that none of the information in the Dowd Report or prosecutorial evidence has to do with him betting as a player, it was entirely what he did as a manager. I know most people knew that already but in all the years I have followed this trial I guess that escaped me. I like watching legal stuff like that, so I found it pretty interesting.

Personally, I think there is no way you can keep Rose out of the HoF. There were NFL players convicted of betting on football, suspended for a year and let back in. These are guys in Canton right now. That being said I dont think he should ever be allowed to work in baseball again. I agreed with the defense that I found it highly unfair he signed an agreement which said that not only was there not enough evidence to convict him of betting on baseball, but that he would be able to reapply in a year. Then they changed the rule a year later.

The sad thing is if he would just admit what he did, admit he had a problem and ask for forgiveness, he would have been in the HoF ten years ago. But not only does he have a problem, he is a real pain in the ass. Doesnt do himself any favors when he does signings at places like Mohegan Sun and The Palms.

 

[Blazer]

Pete Rose signed a lifetime ban.

Pete Rose should be banned for his lifetime.

He should be admitted to the HOF as a player only (no mention of coaching) 5 years after he dies.

 

[ryson]

I agree that Charlie Hustle should be in the HOF........the guy was a great ball PLAYER.

 

[acehistr8]

Blazer you are partially correct, and to anyone else, I found it fascinating to actually see some of these documents which were contrary to what I thought was the case.

Pete Rose did not sign a lifetime ban from baseball. Pete Rose should not be banned for his lifetime. Pete Rose signed an agreement which stated among other things these two facts. One is that Major League Baseball, even given the overwhelming evidence he bet on baseball, the agreement stated that MLB would make no factual findings that Rose bet on baseball. Two, the agreement stated that Pete Rose would be on the permanently ineligible list BUT that in one year he would be eligible to apply for re-instatement and essentially HoF election. He would subsequently be able to apply every year. I think that is a very important point. The agreement he signed was not a lifetime ban, but it was later changed to one. This agreement was signed by Bart Giamatti (the then comissioner) and assistant Fay Vincent. So Rose signed the agreement knowing that in one year, according to the piece of paper he signed, that he would once again be eligible. When Vincent became comissioner, he changed the rules and in effect changed the ban that Rose had signed, to say that anyone on that permenently ineligible list could never again apply for re-instatement.

This kind of ex-post facto behavior is quite frankly embaressing on baseball's part. It isnt tolerated by the legal community at large and would never be tolerated in a business/contract law environment. You couldnt sign a contract that said in one year you would be given a 50% raise and then later on the company changed its mind and said you were never going to get a raise.

For anyone remotely interested in this case, it really was a good 3 hours. Some of the theatrics were a bit much, but the evidence presented to me was fascinating.

 

[JT]

Let him in. Shoeless Joe Jackson should be in also.

 

[Blazer]

There is no concrete evidence against Shoeless Joe. Just an "x" on a line. His stats do not support he was in line with the teams plans.

Pete on the other hand has betting slips and bank accounts in question. He bet on Baseball. He should be banned.

Interesting stuff Ace, I watched a little but they seemed to stretch it out a bit. ESPN seems to be stepping up the original programming but that's a different post.

I believe in laws and punishment for crimes. Pete broke the rules and should be banned. The only reason why this is debated is Baseball's poor creditability. The fact that the "lifetime ban" was altered and the rules seem more fluid than rigid hurt their case. That's no reason not to start now.

Pete should remain banned.

Banned from working in Baseball.

Banned form the HOF.

 

[dr. freeze]

i would let him in if he ever admit to it and asked for some forgiveness for lying to us all these years....

no one likes to be lied to...and it is so condescending

gambling to me isn't the issue anymore......honesty however is....

everyone gambles but most people are honest with themselves and with others....HOFers should at least be held up to that standard

 

[slvrblet]

THE REAL QUESTION HERE IS DID HE BET ON BASEBALL.....I BELIVE HE DID..BUT WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT, HE COULD CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF A GAME TO EARN GAMBLING PROFITS.WELL, I GREW UP WATCHING PETE PLAY. IF ANYONE OUT THERE WOULD EVER THINK THAT PETE WOULD EVER BET ON HIS TEAM TO LOSE WOULD BE OUT OF THERE MINDS...HE WAS AN EGO MANIAC....HE WOULD ONLY BET ON THE REDS TO WIN......PETE WOULD NEVER BET ON HIS TEAM TO LOSE...HE HATED LOSING...SO THE THOUGHT HE WOULD SHAVE POINTS OR THROW A GAME IS COMPLETELY CRAZY....THE RULE IS IN PLACE TO PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME.....PETE WOULD RATHER LOSE MONEY ON THE REDS THAN THE REDS LOSE AND HE WIN A BET...THINK ABOUT WHAT HE IS ALL ABOUT IN BASEBALL........SELF CENTERED , EGOTISTICAL,.....HE WOULD RATHER WIN EVERY GAME ON THE FIELD, AND NOT BET ON THE REDS TO LOSE. I CAN'T BET AGAINST THE REDS TO THIS DAY WITHOUT HOPING THAT THEY WIN EVERY GAME.

YES HE BROKE THE RULES AS IT WAS WRITTEN

BUT I DONT THINK HE BROKE THE SPIRIT OF THE RULE


HE IS THE GAMES BEST HITTER OF ALL TIME!!!!!!!!!

HE BELONGS IN THE HOF

 

[Lemons]

He belongs in the Hall of Fame. Plain and simple.

 

[StevieD]

I am confused. Who runs the Hall of Fame anyways? Why can't they just do the right thing and put him in and to Hell with what The Comissioner says?
I agree to a lifetime ban on playing or coaching but how can he alter the outcome of a game because his bust is in the Hall?

 

[ferdville]

Such a big point was made that he bet on the Reds while he was their manager. I would be alot more concerned if he bet against the Reds than bet on the Reds.

 

[jroot]

Anyone catch Johnie Cockring's line?

"The man could hit....you must acquit."

 

[taoist]

...my 2 cents

...my 2 cents

...he never bet "against" the reds, as some have mentioned.

...he is one of the best hitters (if not the best) of all time.

...he should be in the Hof F. :yup

 

[Box and one]

I watched it last nite.Glad "ace" started something about it.
Have mixed feelings.I thought Dershowitz was better then Johnny C.
Almost everyone agrees that Rose bet on baseball.Cochran never questioned anyone on that.He's defense was "enough is enough." Baseball changed some of the rules in the '89 agreement.Therefore allow him in the Hall.
8 of the 12 jurors felt the same way.
You can argue till your blue everyone has an opinion.
I see it this way.Forget everyone else who belongs or doesn't belong.Shoeless Joe,the bigot Cobb.The Paul hornings in the NFL.
This is about Pete Rose.And no one else.
He bet on games.Thats not disputable.His handwritting,betting slips,thumbprints,telephone calls,cancelled checks,etc,etc.
He bet on his own team the Reds.I don't believe he bet against them but he played them.He sucked at it too because he lost his own games that he played to win.
But putting that all aside he still can't stand up and admit what he did.That is what irks me.
You bet on baseball games Pete.You bet on Reds games.I don't think for a minut you threw games.
But have a "freak'in press conference and come clean.
To sit there any deny it shows me "your true colors".
To me thats what its all about.
There will still be many people who will say you don't derserve to get in because you bet.Coming clean now doesn't change that.And I understand their thinking.
But I'm willing to forget that and your problems.
But be honest.To me thats what I need.
And if you still stick with you BS story about never betting baseball I would never vote for you.
This is not about you being elected as a player since you did these things as a manager.It's not about Cobb or Shoeless.Or the Comish playing games with the rules.Or the enough is enough.You have been banned for 14 yrs.It's not about you getting more cheers then Hank in Atlanta.It's not about an 8-4 verdict last nite in you favor.

It's about you telling the truth.I was 15 miles from Cooperstown today picking my daughter up from Tall Girls B-Ball camp in Oneanta.If you got in w/o ever admitting what you did that would be shame.I'd have a hard time going over to you plaque and looking at it.
Everyone has there own opinions.Some want you in right now.Some never want you in.
All I need is some honesty and maybe some humbleness.

 

[AR182]

obviously nobody but rose knows which is true, but unless prooven otherwise we should assume that he did bet against his beloved reds.a seasoned gambler, not saying he was a winner, makes bets based on teams that he feels has an advantage. so if he had a pitcher, who he knew would be off his game, ie, flu, pulled muscle, etc.why is it inconceivable for rose to bet against this pitcher.

i was never a fan of rose, because i always thought he was arrogant. but that seems to be a prevailing disease in today's pro sports. the hall of fame is based on field performance, not what happened after he retired. so if cobb, a despicable player(racist), is in the hall, i feel that rose & shoeless joe should be in the hall.

 

[mercury]

Rose was a punk and always will be a punk.Not admitting to gambling on baseball games proves that to me.In or out doesn't mean a damn thing to me.I certainly don't feel sorry for him.He's a classless jerk.

 

[michaeljbird]

:lol2 :lol: :lol: :lol: Alright Mercury, We are still not sure how you feel about Rose.

 

[Lemons]

I watched some of the show last night. Really didn't interest me to much. I have always said Pete Rose should be voted into the Hall of Fame as a player. Who cares what he did as a manager. Did he bet on baseball. If he did, it still doesn't take away that he is the ALLTIME hits leader. That record will never be broken.

 

[SixFive]

He should be in the Hall. Bart learned that the hard way.

 

[djv]

I give it about another 1 to 2 years and he's in.