Priest is a punk

[dawgball]

FDC--I would now like to politely disagree with you and tell YOU that you are wrong. Where Nolan plainly does not side with the Owners every time which you noted, you are definitely a Union man to the end adn will ALWAYS support the suppressed worker. With you, it is always the owners trying to screw their workers. Isn't the whole concept of the word UNION to work as a team. If you walked into your employer as an individual today and said, "Either give me a raise or I'm sitting down for a week." you would not only be fired (probably--I don't know how strong your union is) but you would also be in trouble with your Union for stepping out of line.

I do own a business, and I feel that our employees feel very well treated and respected. If I thought otherwise, I would do everything in my power (this does not include putting me out of business for an individual's needs) to make them happier. Are there owners out there that don't care about employees? Hell Yes! Are there workers out there that should be canned but the owner is powerless because of overblown unions? Hell Yes. It's not the norm, but it does happen. I have witnessed it first hand in the beautiful state of our American Auto Industry.

Back to why this thread was posted. I do not disagree that Holmes should ask for a raise because he deserves more. The problem I have is with his means. If that punk walked in my office and said that, he would not be an employee for long. Send his ass to the Bengals and see how he likes it there.

On your Emmitt comment--the owners were in an awkward position with this. Smith has made more money for the Cowboys AND the NFL than Holmes could ever dream of making. Is $10 milllion too much for Emmitt? There's no question, but if he was just dealt his walking papers, then you would be screaming about the lack of loyalty that the Jerry Jones had for his many years of service. It's a Catch-22 for the owners. Don't take that as me pitying the owners, because they wouldn't be doing it if they weren't making money.

To take one side every time no matter the situation is the wrong (Union) way to go. It's always about how much more can I get instead of what is best for the group. marine's example of the Red Wings is what we don't see enough of in the major sports. Everyone is a pre-madonna these days.

 

[Stuman]

I think this issue can be compared pretty well to the music industry. A young artist trying to break into the top-40 scene will sign just about anything to make it. Then, all of the sudden, when they are famous they demand more money and they end up filing a lawsuit! What crap! So, should the record company just lay down and give them everything they want? When in fact it was the record company's know-how and marketing that made them famous! Just like a certain style offense and good protection can make a football player famous or seem like a "good player". Hell, look at aerosmith. One of their first agents had them sign a contract that guarenteed him royalties for the rest of his life. He's not even their agent anymore, but guess what? He's still raking in his much deserved royalties. What about all of the millions of dollars that the record labels spend on artists that never amount to anything. :shrug:

I'm not saying these record labels are always angels. Sometimes they really screw artists! I think those cases should be corrected, but forcing them to change a legitimate contract just because you are "more marketable" is ludicrous!

 

[fatdaddycool]

Dawgball,
Since most of my replies are too long as it is let me try to be quick.

1. I do side with the suppressed workers everytime. If they are being suppressed you should be also. Suppression is illegal for the most part. Nolan did side with the owners on all but one occasion which I clearly stipulated by saying sans the Browns, Colts issue.

2.

With you, it is always the owners trying to screw their workers. Isn't the whole concept of the word UNION to work as a team.

. The meaning of the word Union is much more than work as a team. Besides we are talking about Labor Unions and as far as I can remember, management has never been a part of the team. Also, I have been an elected official in a labor union for well over 15 years. I do not own a union shop and will hazard to say neither do you nor have you been a member of a labor union for any significant period of time, therefore I can only speak to one side of the equation whereas you can truthfully speak to none. Owning a shop or store or business that employees 5 to 40 people does not qualify you, or anyone for that matter, on the state of, proper application, or bargaining processes of a collective bargaining agreement. I will say this though. Only management hires private investigaters, installs cameras, asks for wage concessions, goes in print daily complaining about how much money they are losing and get away with it because of people such as yourself, that have no clue what the hell they are talking about, yet watch CNN and call themselves informed. Let me ask you this Dawg, will you shed a tear for the near 200,000 union workers that have been or will be laid off in the next two years? How much do you think giving back a weeks vacation, benefits, license premiums, shift differentials and a 13% pay cut hurt the guys at United in the Machinists union when a republican judge ordered that to happen without recourse. "The company needed the concession to feasibly keep operating" was the quote I believed he used. But if you check United's 4th quarter financial report from last year they spent 93,000,000 dollars on a propaganda campaign to amend the Railway Labor Act which is the governing document for transport trade unions. So they needed 29% of a middle income families income to feasibly operate but they didn't need that 93 million, is that what you are agreeing with, that philosopy? Cwest I believe the group was called, so you tell me Dawg, who is hurting worse now? The guy that was making middle income wages lost close to 29% in total concessions and the company throws away 93mill, trying to back door the unions ability to strike and I am against the big bad company? You see, my brother in law who is the father of my two nieces and one nephew and husband to my sister is living that American Dream now Dawg. Thats right he had his wages taken from and then frozen for six years with out even cost of living increases and a court ordered him to do it, you are right...damn unions! A company mismanages itself into the ground and doesn't have to answer the bell and still gets to keep its $93,000,000. Damn unions. Dawg, live my life as a union official for one day, see the backhandedness and lies that I see every day that spews from the head of the snake and you will at least be able to speak to one side of the equation.

but the owner is powerless because of overblown unions?

I have witnessed it first hand in the beautiful state of our American Auto Industry.

To take one side every time no matter the situation is the wrong (Union) way to go

O.K. so you don't like unions? Why aren't there any disparaging little adjectives in front of any of the words Owner? Just curious there company man.

3.

On your Emmitt comment--the owners were in an awkward position with this. Smith has made more money for the Cowboys AND the NFL than Holmes could ever dream of making. Is $10 milllion too much for Emmitt? There's no question, but if he was just dealt his walking papers, then you would be screaming about the lack of loyalty that the Jerry Jones had for his many years of service. It's a Catch-22 for the owners. Don't take that as me pitying the owners, because they wouldn't be doing it if they weren't making money.

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. The cowgirls kept Emmitt to fill the seats pal nothing else. Troy Hambrick wasn't going to do it. Jerry Jones did it strictly for the bottom line, he knew that team was going nowhere and they DO NOT sell out like everyone thinks so his R.O.I. on Emmitt was good. Now go to a team that has no problem filling the seats and is a perennial winner and takes care of its employees yet will summarily dismiss a great player when they think his time is past him and I give you Jerry Rice and the 49ers. And quit saying owners as there was but one owner involved.

4.

To take one side every time no matter the situation is the wrong (Union) way to go. It's always about how much more can I get instead of what is best for the group. marine's example of the Red Wings is what we don't see enough of in the major sports. Everyone is a pre-madonna these days.

Wow! Mercy! I give! You are way too educated on unions for me dude. You read alot of the U.S.A. Today dawg? You should because it is printed entirely by scabs, you see they (U.S.A. Today) locked out their union guys forever, which is cool I suppose, I mean nothing happened to them or Lorenzo at Eastern Airlines and Continental when he sent the economy into the crapper by breaking those unions with no recourse. So striking is cool too right, because you see what happened to the pilots when they tried to strike, presidential board forced them back to work, or the air traffic controllers, or the people at Eastern, or Continental before a bunch scab picket line crossing low lifes turned it back to profitability after several bankruptcies which you and I and the rest of the public footed the bill for. Don't preach to me about the good guys at the top and how it is us leeches just out for ourselves that are ruining todays athletes, unions, companies or anything else because you have absolutely no knowledge on the subject, except for what you are receiving right now. Union members are all about the group, those that are about themselves are quickly weeded out.

I will tell you something. The wages you now receive, the way of life you now enjoy as a laborer or small business owner or any other thing that you may have going is due to in large part to labor unions. There are things wrong with every system unions included. But you wouldn't know that because labor unions didn't spend billions of dollars last year in the media and propaganda campaigns like the airlines did to show you that. So you continue to tell me what I meant by this or that and then tell me how things really are because you own a sandwich shop or what not, and then tell me where you got your information from. Because I will tell you one thing, you never heard me say I agree with Priest Holmes. The time to bargain his contract is over, however I do not see anything wrong with going into an office as you put it and asking to reopen your contract because things have changed, if they answer with a resounding no then I would simply inform them that I will not be resigning with them, ever, no matter the price. I would then go get in the best shape of my life, play my ass of and at the end of my contract I would leave. Of course during that time I would be enforcing all aspects of the contract too. Then I would leave and get paid and the company would learn a valueable lesson, nothing is free.
Repent Dawg.....lol
FDC, the long winded

 

[dawgball]

Very good post, FDC, but that does not mean I agree with you. I would like to point out one thing from a quote from me that I should have started a new paragraph.

Isn't the whole concept of the word UNION to work as a team. If you walked into your employer as an individual today and said, "Either give me a raise or I'm sitting down for a week." you would not only be fired (probably--I don't know how strong your union is) but you would also be in trouble with your Union for stepping out of line.

I should have started a new paragraph starting here. I did not intend the Union team to be associated with the previous sentence.

I feel your pain. My family is long standing, hard working, Union guys and gals. I grew up watching how a Union, in my opinon, completely lives and breathes off of the employees but they hide behind the concept that they are helping the workers. It's not just one Labor Union that I have seen this in place. You may run a solid Union. I think we have had this conversation before. But, on the same breath there are just as many bad unions as there are bad companies AND owners of them. My opinion of them is not good in general.

1. I do side with the suppressed workers everytime. If they are being suppressed you should be also. Suppression is illegal for the most part. Nolan did side with the owners on all but one occasion which I clearly stipulated by saying sans the Browns, Colts issue.

In my post, I stated that you acknowledgedd Nolan's comments about the Colts. But the reason I am quoting this is because I feel (just personal opinion but I do not know you personally) that with you it is always a "suppressed" worker. What NFL player is suppressed? That sounds ridiculous to me.

I will also state here that my reason for posting here was that I disagree with Holmes means not ends.

FDC--I do apologize for offending you. We do (and probably always will) disagree on this subject. I was out of line with MY means in my original post. And no I don't read the rag USA Today! I'm offended!

 

[fatdaddycool]

Dawgball,
You didn't really offend me it is just that I may be a little more....shall we say passionate on that subject than others. So cheers bro absolutely no harm done it is a great debate that will go on for ages, hopefully.
My biggest worry this day is the public conception of unions and especially what the paid press is making us out to be. I can only speak to the airline industry and will tell you that the state of the industry is management imposed not due to labor wages. You may think pilots are overpaid but even the richest pilots salary pales in comparison to the hundreds of "Vice presidents" at AA. And yes I said hundreds. But the company has the money to spend on propaganda, and political lobbyists that ensure them the largest slice of any pie.
Cheers
FDC

 

[Valuist]

I saw the Steve Jobs reference and I do believe he CHOSE the $1 a year compensation. Oh yeah, he did also get a Gulfstream jet.

I would normally agree saying screw Holmes. I hate hearing about baseball and basketball players complaining about wanting to re-negotiate. But the NFL is different; other than signing bonuses nothing is guaranteed. And Holmes has been unquestionably the top RB in the NFL for each of the past 2 seasons. Let's not compare the top current RB (yes Mr. Faulk he has outperformed you the past 2 seasons) to a .234 hitter. I'm not really sure why Holmes hasn't really gotten his just due. He did rush for over 1,000 yards with Baltimore but for some reason they couldn't wait to get Jamal Lewis. I agree we don't need the Scottie Pippens and Frank Thomas' of the world bitching, but lets not compare the NFL, where the average career is 4 years, to these other overpaid leagues.

 

[Stewy]

You are right Valuist. By the time Priest finishes the last 3 years of this contract he will have past the life expantcy of an NFL running back. Lamar Hunt said before the season was even over that he thought Priest Holmes should get some kind of a raise. The deal will get done but Carl Peterson is a busy man right now talkig to the Hugh Douglass's and Shawn Barbers of the world .

 

[Blazer]

Jessy

Jessy

Trent Green just signed a 50 million over 7 years with a 9.5 Mill bonus deal. I can here Jessy warming up......

" The Man is keeping Holmes down"

 

[Stuman]

Blazer,
That sounds about right...

 

[Blazer]

Holdout?

Holdout?

From ESPN:
Monday, March 3rd

The seven-year contract given to Barber will allow the Chiefs to remain active in the free-agent market. Barber's contract includes a $5.5 million signing bonus and a 2003 salary of $700,000, so his impact against the salary cap this year is only about $1.5 million.

Barber is scheduled to be paid about $10 million in the first three years and $30 million over the life of the contract.


Holmes is still on the sideline with his old contract in hand. This could shape into a major story of the NFL 2003.

$$$ is going out but not to Holmes.

 

[genosays]

As a Chiefs season ticket holder for 12 years I have seen quite a few punks come through Arrowhead Stadium (Dale Carter, Elvis 'the quitter' Grbac to name a few), but Priest Holmes is not one. He is a class act. Granted he signed the contract and he will honor it if forced to, but in my opinion the Chiefs need to step up and throw Priest a bone by re-doing his contract somehow and give him a decent signing bonus .... he has earned it with the last 2 seasons work. Would have broken many records if not injured the last 2 games of this past season. With that being said any renogiating is assuming his hip is completely healed and he is healthy. Doctors will have to evaluate that. Don't believe he will really sit out, but the only leverage he has to get a fair, close to market value deal out of KC GM Carl Peterson is to threaten to do so. In most cases I would agree when a player tries this crap, but Priest is the exception to the rule and deserves more $$$.