question about unions....

[TORONTO-VIGILANTE]

well, over the last 8 days, my profession has been locked out of our schools.....this is a first for me and for many.

very disheartening.

while i blame our union, the school board and the provincial gov't for screwing us royally, i ask myself this:

what the fawk are unions good for?

we had a negociating team playing hardball with the school board and wouldn't budge to give in to the board....anything less then what we asked for would be a slap in our face...

i'm not gonna get into the semantics of what the teachers are fighting for.....because it's pointless, and the public is misinformed about what's goin on here in Ontario.

some parents and people think the teachers are on strike, but we're not.

anyways, back to my question:

our local negociating team were playing hardball, and now our provincial union came in and got rid of our negociating team and put in place a new set of people.

I am VERY suspicious of this...as i have a feeling some of these that are on the NEW negociating team MAY have some ties to the provincial govt that caused this mess in the first place.....and therefore we'll get LESS than we asked for.....

yes, yes, it'll be up to us the teachers to vote on this new contract, but for those like myself who are willing to fight to change the system ( and keep on NOT getting a paycheque...) will probably be screwed by the older teachers near retirement and those that are bullied easily ( and don't wanna rock the boat) as they are sheep led to the slaughter and will probably vote yes on any shit that's thrown their way.....

1) do any of you guys find this suspiscious?
2) what are unions good for and are they usually out to help their members when it comes to hard times like these?

thanks for your responses in advance, i know i'll get some really good well thought out opinions and statements from you all.

and thanks for letting me vent.

 

[HeavyHitter]

as a fellow teacher, I feel your pain....not sure what the union is good for if they are not there for you the one time you really need them....who's teaching the kids if you are locked out???

and is this mess keeping you from posting your baseball plays???

 

[TORONTO-VIGILANTE]

the kids are not in school for the last 8 days...

69,000 kids are at home now out of school.

and is this mess keeping you from posting your baseball plays???

nope, been very BAD in bases this season.
was hoping by NOT posting my plays, i'd get some luck back.

I didn't.

 

[djv]

You do know why there are Unions? And you should not fear any older teachers unless over 50% are old enough to retire. And That seems impossiable. If school district locked you out. On what grounds did they do so?

 

[TORONTO-VIGILANTE]

If school district locked you out. On what grounds did they do so?

we've been without a contract since august of 2002, the teachers were in a strike position the first week of May when negociations broke down again. The Toronto Elementary Catholic Teachers (TECT) union was able to legally go on strike as of Monday, May 5, 2003. This allows us to take a range of strike action, from refusing to perform some teaching duties to refusing to report to school.

when teachers are in a strike position, we are allowed to strike but we don't, we go on a WORK TO RULE compaign, which is:

when teachers chose to perform only the duties that are required under their contracts, and to discontinue any of their extra or voluntary work on behalf of their students.


Negotiations Update
LATEST DEVELOPMENTS IN NEGOTIATIONS WITH ELEMENTARY TEACHERS' UNION

On Thursday, May 22, 2003, Toronto Elementary Catholic Teachers' Union agreed to meet with the Board's negotiating team. The negotiations have broken off at this time. The Teachers' Union did not present a counter offer for any further negotiation.

Until a tentative settlement is reached, or until the legislation introduced by the Provincial Government is passed, all Catholic elementary schools will remain closed with no programs or instruction being provided. The Board continues to ask parents to keep children at home and make alternate arrangements for childcare.


TORONTO CATHOLIC ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS REMAIN CLOSED

? The Toronto Elementary Catholic Teachers (TECT) union was able to legally go on strike as of Monday, May 5, 2003. This allows them to take a range of strike action, from refusing to perform some teaching duties to refusing to report to school.

? On Monday, May 5, 2003 the union advised teachers to immediately refuse to perform some duties.

? On Tuesday, May 13, 2003 the Board advised the union that if a tentative settlement was not reached by 12:00 Noon on Thursday, May 15, 2003, the Board would lock out the union and all elementary teachers effective, Friday, May 16, 2003.

? During the work to rule strike action, teachers were paid 100% of their salaries while not carrying out their full duties and responsibilities. These strike actions have seriously affected the students? learning environment.

SOME OF THE STRIKE ACTION TAKEN BY THE UNION INCLUDE:

?Members will not take part in EQAO or CAT-3 testing.

Members will not complete IEP?s.

Members will not participate in, or plan, extra-curricular or other voluntary activities (e.g. graduations, spring concerts, track and field days, sacraments, all excursions).

Members will not accept a change to their assignments to replace a colleague or accept dispersed students into their classrooms.

Members will report to work only 15 minutes before classes begin and leave 15 minutes after classes end. All teachers will enter and leave the school together.?

Members will not attend school meeting during non-instructional time including: staff meetings, divisional meetings, committee meetings, and teacher performance and appraisal meeting. Teachers will attend the above meetings if they are scheduled during the instructional day, exclusive of planning time and the 40 minute uninterrupted lunch break.

Members will not place comments on report cards except for a single Religion comment if work to rule continues beyond Friday, May 16, 2003. Teachers will submit handwritten or word-processed marks/grades/checklists to the principal or vice-principal.?

_____________________________________

PART II:

so the board thought:

"....During the work to rule strike action, teachers were paid 100% of their salaries while not carrying out their full duties and responsibilities. These strike actions have seriously affected the students? learning environment....."

so they locked us out.

which is total BULLSHIT.

here's another gem:
i'm with the catholic board, right?

then how come, in the toronto public school board of toronto, does the Public Elementary Teachers of Toronto continue to be on a work-to-rule for months (SINCE JANUARY) and have not been locked out by their Board. In the Toronto Public Board, both sides continue to negotiate while students continue to learn.

they locked US out after TEN DAYS?????????
______________________________

Part III:

and let's not forget the PC conservative party here using this as a platform for re-election by trying to get us back to work using legislation and a section 2 part of that being to "change our duties" to FORCE us to do extra - curricular activities....even though we were happily doin them in the first place all these years......
_____________________________

my anger..........................rising.

 

[djv]

Seems like Private has differant set of rules then Public. In USA many Private schools dont have unions. They tried to have them. In some cases the parents showed up to teach. Then Told the teachers if they want more of everything go to a Public school and work. Was real tough with the Catholic schools. They would have the priest and nuns do some of the teaching. This did at times hurt the kids learning curve. You get some folks teaching your kids that are not certified teachers. Some not even as smart as the kids. You can see the mess that can bring. Hey many folks dont give a chit if the kids learn from good staff or not.

 

[TORONTO-VIGILANTE]

gimme a break, no other responses?

:shrug:

bump bump!

 

[DR STRANGELOVE]

wait till fatdaddycool views this thread...

 

[fatdaddycool]

As I just did Anthony.

Chris,
First of all let me be very clear on this. Unions seem to be a delicate subject and I am not without opinion that many do not understand. Hopefully, the latest rounds of collective bargaining at some of our larger corporations some people may start opening their eyes to what the "truth" is.
It is unfortunate that the children have to suffer but let me ask you this....how important is a teachers job????? Well the kids have been out of school for 8 little days and already their education suffers. The public will undoubtedly view the teachers as greedy or uncaring and they will foot the majority of the blame and the brunt of public outrage, all the while management will mislead and sit with their arms folded without regard to anybody.
The latest examples of how the corporate world really works are the latest two rounds of union negotitations
Lockheed-Went on strike due to expiration of contract and although company just signed largest, lengthiest military contract in their history which means billions of more dollars for the world's largest supplier of military grade aircraft. Union mechanics were forced to strike due to company insisting on reduction of pension benefits. No increase in vacation benefit and a meager raise offer. Both sides caved after approximately two weeks. Lockheed will post largest profit margin next quarter. Big bad union guys only wanted to share the wealth. Nope.
American Airlines-Don Carty demands record concessions while holding the threat of bankruptcy over union heads. Union sells out members and caves. Carty and other high ranking company execs caught with hands in cookie jar, on a pension plan scam and an executive retainer plan. Carty forced to resign from Board of Director and Arpey the guy who wrote up the damn documents takes over. Big bad union guys take largest concession ever. Lose holidays, pay, sick time, benefits, and management takes Memorial Holiday off while everyone else has to report to work. The one manager that did show up found a car in her spot, which is of course in the front row in exec parking. She had it towed, on memorial day.
United Airlines-Company closes Indianapolis overhaul facilty and lays off without regard to seniority, which is a breach of contract, goes to court, union wins decision, company does not follow court instructions and they are now back in litigation while thousands are out of work. United actively engaging in breaking of unions, company will most likely not recover, hopefully not. I would rather see the company fail and have all the management team also be without jobs and unhireable. The mechanics will recover, hopefully the execs wallow in self pity and die penniless.

There is no regard for the past, present or future contributions unions make or made to the labor movement. Not knowing the semantics of the negotiations I am guessing that the teachers are not asking for anything unreasonable by todays salary standards in other arenas yet due to the field they are in it is probably being portrayed as ridiculous. It is the norm and depending on depth of media interference, will continue. The union must stick together. Teachers have been underpaid for decades and it is time that people remedy that.

Unions are good for a number of things such as; improving working conditions, benefits, wages, protecting the rights of the innocent, safety, corruption, dues gathering, protecting the rights of the guilty. An all perfect organization does not exist, however, they are necessary, in a number of fields.

I hope things work out for the teachers because their kids are suffering too you know. Pay them what they are worth.

 

[TORONTO-VIGILANTE]

HERE'S AN UPDATE:

takens from the OECTA (provincial ) website:

Beginning May 26, the Ontario English Catholic Teacher's Association (OECTA: our provincial head...) assumed provincial control of the negotiation process currently underway between the Toronto Elementary Catholic Teachers, (TECT, OUR LOCAL) and the Toronto Catholic District School Board.

What is a provincial takeover?

A provincial takeover occurs when OECTA's provincial organization exercises its authority to negotiate on behalf of the members of a local bargaining unit. This is done in a manner consistent with OECTA policy, to ensure the best interests of the local bargaining unit are protected, as well as those of all other bargaining units in the province.

Why is there a provincial takeover?
? OECTA favours collective agreements reached by local negotiations
endorsed by a ratification vote of local members.

? As a result of the lockout of Catholic elementary teachers by the Toronto Catholic District School Board, the Eves Tory government has tabled back-to-work legislation that would not only affect bargaining for the TECT and impose an arbitrated settlement on them, but also affect all Ontario teachers. OECTA wants to ensure the greatest opportunity to reach a negotiated settlement endorsed by a ratification vote.

? Part 2 of the Eves legislation redefines teaching duties to make many more duties mandatory for all teachers, such as completing report cards, administering EQAO tests, participating in meetings with parents, performing duties in the co-op education program as assigned by the principal and duties associated with graduation. It also enables the Minister of Education to add to this list of other duties traditionally considered voluntary.

? Because the current impasse between TECT and the school board has ramifications that are provincial in scope, OECTA is directing more experienced negotiators and greater financial support toward finding a resolution.

What is arbitration?
Arbitration is a binding process whereby both parties present relevant facts to an arbitrator who makes a final and binding ruling. This would include information from teachers about the cost of living, salaries, and details about benefits and working conditions contained in recent settlements in neighbouring boards. The arbitrator also receives information from the board about such factors as its financial ability, enrollment, income and expenses.

Why is OECTA opposed to arbitrated settlements?
? All terms of arbitrator's decision are imposed on both parties for the full term of the contract. Satisfaction by either party is rare, and tension frequently escalates for the term of the imposed contract.

? Under legislation introduced by the Harris Tories, arbitrators must take into consideration the board's ability to pay above all other factors. This is a key consideration in reaching a decision, regardless of fairness.

? There is no opportunity to vote for or against the imposed contract.

? Arbitrators rarely understand teachers' needs or the nuances of teachers' worklife and working conditions.

? The arbitration process is very lengthy. Currently, OECTA's Simcoe Muskoka elementary teachers are undergoing arbitration, after being legislated back-to-work in December 2002. Salaries remain fixed at the old rates ($68,000 max.), while a lengthy exercise to determine financial ability unfolds, prior to a decision.

What is mediation?
In mediation, both parties present positions to a mediator who attempts to facilitate agreement amongst the parties. In mediation, parties still have control over the settlement. The mediator has no authority to impose a settlement, but urges both parties to find middle ground.
_________________________________________

man, i hate getting screwed royally....and this is how it's gonna end for us teachers here...but then again, I knew that from the beginning....

 

[djv]

Many will not buy your points fatdaddy. I always would ask my Dad why does that company have a union. But this one here does not. Been on both side of the fence in my life. In a perfect world no union would ever be needed. Sorry we will never get there while we have greed. This greed can come from both directions. But in most cases companies do not like to share to much. Here I would guess your messing with the Tax payers money. So that will always be used as a hammer against the teachers. The board will not want to look bad. That means the teachers have to take the hit.

 

[TBONEZ0295]

WOW I can't believe what I just read...........................THANK GOD "literaly" that the catholic schools where my kids go grade and highschools aren't union....................DJV the taxpayers won't get hit the families paying the tuition will get hit which is the norm every year there is an increase in tuition "WE" the parents should pay the teachers for there private education BUT throw a union in and here comes TROUBLE The taxpayers $$$$ doesn't even come near the catholic schools and it is my opinion that "ALL" teachers are tremendously under paid.

From the little bit I know about the unions in Canada They are said to be stonger there,but the TECT sounds like a tin can union but what else is new!

 

[TBONEZ0295]

I should reiterate (sp?) what I just KIND of said TV-i am sorry for you and what you are going threw really I am but if you didn't have union you wouldn't have this problem NOT AT A CATHOLIC SCHOOL IN THE US anyway you wouldn't have lasted on the lock out so to speak for 2 days let alone 10 days. Its a disgrace with only what like 2 weeks of school left:shrug: SORRY that you are going threw this................

 

[TORONTO-VIGILANTE]

TBONEZ0295, thanks for the wishes.....

LOCKOUT, DAY 9:

TECT is our local TORONTO union. They played hardball with the school board and I was SAD to see them go when our Ontario provincial union reps ( who oversee ALL the catholic teachers local unions in Ontario) took over. OECTA has juristiction when they feel that the local union and the school board is in a deadlock.

they are going to make US ( toronto catholic teachers) an example for the rest of the province.

now we are guaranteed a SHIT contract to vote on because it's becoming more evident that we have some leaders in the ranks that have some "interesting GOVT party ties", and they just wanna get a contract on the table before more time is lost.

this will perpetuate the shit that teachers have been getting in this province for the last 2 - 3 decades....

A) I just hope that my profession votes that contract down, if we get it....but then we'll be screwed by binding arbitration if it comes to that......and we ALL know that the school boards are gonna open up the books and show that they don't have the money to pay us, so we won't be equitably compensated.....and NOT even retroactively......

B) I've heard rumblings that a group of teachers are trying to get some papers together to sue the board for "not bargaining in good faith....."
Personally, i would like to see nothing more....

this HAS to end somewhere, might as well give my generation of teachers a shot to do it.

and the sad part is, with the media, the public has been GROSSLY misinformed of events that are goin on here.

- parents ( who got MANY letters on this subject from the school board) and the majority of my friends ( some of whom are very up to date on current events...) think that the teachers are on strike?????

WTF?????

I nearly killed all of them when i heard that.......

 

[fatdaddycool]

You see this is exactly what I mean.

TBoneZ- thank you for proving my point. You IMMEDIATELY went straight to blaming the union. THEY WERE LOCKED OUT BY THE COMPANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You don't have unions in catholic schools and your students suffer for it because they, the teachers, are tremendously underpaid and bolt for the higher paying union jobs as soon as they have tenure. My mother is the president of her local teachers union and has been involved in numerous negotiations. School boards are afforded extremely rich budgets and most of that money does not go where needed. TBone I challenge you to compare the salaries of your local superintendent to that of a topped out teacher and tell me how good they have it. I went to a catholic school and had to transfer to a public and found out that I was way behind.

I cannot believe that anybody that has children in a school system would not want the teachers to be happy in their work. Anyone that is not union better never bitch about having to work a holiday or not getting a good raise or anything of the sort and then tell me how shitty unions are and how they cause "trouble" right away. I am sorry that is an incredibly irresponsible statement. Trouble arose when the teachers were not granted a fair collective bargaining process. THE TEACHERS WORKED WITHOUT A CONTRACT FOR CLOSE TO A YEAR!! For Chrissakes how is that trouble? The company is trying to increase their scope (which means broaden their responsibilities/job function) without financial restitution. They are mad the teachers are only going to perform their MANDATORY job functions so they will try to increase their functions instead of paying them to do the ones they already have. Do you not get it? Do you know what teachers have to do on a daily basis? Do you know what a good teacher is worth to a misguided student, even just one kid? You don't even know what the teachers are asking for and you immediately blame them instead of anyone else. Why? Because they are an easy target? You don't think they are worth anything so it must be their fault? And don't tell me that you have all these friends and relatives that are union and that qualifies you to know what they are all about, that dowsn't qualify anyone for crap. I am union, been in three of them. Am currently an officer in mine and have been for quite some time. I see it everyday. As a matter of fact today I woke up and couldn't walk due to a foot injury I sustained years ago at work and have to have it periodically injected with cortisone to enable me to walk without excrutiating pain, yet I will only get paid for half of the day and have to grieve for the day to be paid as workmens comp because the company will refuse to pay it and code it as sick time of which we only get paid for half the day with this latest round of mandatory concessions. You see we are talking about my *!@@#%king health here and quality of life. I am only 38 years old and have been injured at work to cause me six surgeries and three broken bones and have had to fight every stinking one of them and the UNIONS are trouble?
DJV- people will not BUY my points? They don't have to because people will think what they want until they get screwed and then cry about it. Human nature, if people want to think we chase people around with bats, and strong arm the weak then let them.

Let me ask you all this......How many of you had ADD or Dyslexia or whatever the hell else when your were a kid in the seventies and such? How many of your friends? None? Yea me neither. Don't know anyone that grew up to be a murderer or psycho, yet now statistics show that as many as 1 in 5 students are diagnosed with some sort of learning disorder and 2 of the 3 diagnosed will be medicated. Unbelievable, and people actually believe this crap. The kid isn't sick he/she is hyperactive so what. Noone wants to shoulder the blame anymore, its not mommy's fault or daddy, it can't be the teachers fault they only have them for one or two periods. But it must be because I am a good mommy or daddy, give me a break.
The educational system has dropped off in this country due to the apathy af parental units spending more time at work and play then with the kids. People go with the flow and blame everyone else. I have an idea instead of paying a teacher a pittance of a salary and then not giving a raise for a year and not educating them enough through training and overpopulating their classrooms and under cutting their supplies budget, lets raise their workload too and not take into account that they are trying to make a living too and are spending countless hours grading papers, making lesson plans, writing tests and quizzes, making copies, grading papers, taking yours and everyone elses childs problem home with them every stinking night!!!!!!! Only to come home and have to tend to their family. AND IT THE FRIKKIN UNIONS THAT ARE THE TROUBLE????????? Take a look at yourselves and decide if their isn't some way to improve your work environment, then decide if it wouldn't be nice to have a voice to improve it albeit a small one but one anyway.

Right, those poor baby kids and those bastard union teachers....I am so glad that I have the more underpaid teachers at my school that are simply waiting to get on with a unionized workforce or that just don't need the money increase so my kids can get the mediocre education they deserve with my underpaid, understaffed, less qualified non union teachers. Wheeewwwweee!

 

[fatdaddycool]

Chris,
Sorry for your troubles. The prvincial or International Union as we call it will most certainly negotiate quickly and put a subpar contract on the table for ratification by the now money stricken membership that is suffering the loss of paychecks while being locked out by the company. Been there, done that. It is sad and I am truly sorry.
I have a strong feeling that the threat of binding arbitration, although real but not imminent, will scare enough into a yes vote that you will fly through the ratification process. Something will come up as to how the vote was done if it was fair and such, but you will win nothing. As you see public opinion is not on your side due to the funding of the media by the other side. Rarely will you see local union leadership getting positive air time on any station. You will, however, hear countless quotes from Board of Ed. members on how things are going and how the children are suffering and how the poor families are coping that have children that are students.
"Poor Mrs. Smith, how are you coping with things, having two kids in Union Buster High"?
"Well Terry, I had to hire a babysitter to go to work because the teachers wouldn't raise my child for me from 7a to 4p today and it's just so unfortunate that this has to happen to me"?
"What do you think we should do you poor put out mother of two"?
"Well, obviously those union teachers don't give a rat's ass, hang on Terry, Christian where is Madison? Huh? Can't you see I am busy, go find her for chrissakes, geezus do I have to watch you every second? Sorry, you were saying, oh yes, well the teachers need to get back to work they are just so selfish. Why can't they just go back off strike and get their stupid little contract later? Ewww it just makes me so mad. Do you have a light?"
"They were locked out"
"Who?''
"The teachers"
"yea what ever, only because the stupid union was playing hard ball, and now because the union must want some kind of kickback I lose a day of work"
"Do you think binding arbitration is the answer"?
"Well I ain't sure who arbitration is, but if you got to tie him up to get my little angels back in school then I am all for it. Christian, watch your sister for a little while mommie will be right back I need cigarettes. God, I hate bundling them all up in that car seat and such just to run to the corner, but I don't want a ticket, Christian can watch her for a minute. I have to go."
"Well, Katie, there you have it another concerned parent eagerly awaiting the end of the teachers strike....or lockout or whatever you want to call it...what does it matter....damn unions"
The school district will have busses lined up everywhere with their school district on it. The sports teams will be heavily funded with new pads and skates every other year. Board will definitely get their yearly raise, and you will end up eating another shitty contract because everyone else is against you and the threat of arbitration will be too much for the membership to handle. I am sorry but will keep the hope alive for you brother.

 

[TBONEZ0295]

NO fatdaddy" thank you" for doing just the opposite in proving my point! WITHOUT the union involved "you don't like your job you don't like your work inviroment, THERES THE DOOR DON'T LET IT HIT YOU IN THE AZZ......................Did you not read where TV explained that all of the extra ciricular activities end up manditory UGH if you went to a catholic school then you may know that there are alot of extras that go into the kids..........NOW let me ask you this???? Even as an adult its one thing to DONATE more of your time because you want to but when being forced to by contracts does that make you want to do them more HELL NO!!!!!!! TEACHERS in todays society DO spend much more time with our kids than the parents that being a fact even in the involved parents life.....But you realize that the profession of teaching is a choice just like all professions and when you throw a union in and start demanding more and more IS IT STILL YOUR PASSION OR are you LOOKING FOR more and more...............and of course the tin can union over there decides to do it 2 weeks befor school is out.............GO FIGURE of course thats going to ruffle some feathers......Is your mother local or NEAA????? either way I think they should stay the hell out of the catholic schools all together and if teacher isn't happy THERES THE DOOR..............I would ratgher have some one teaching my children who wants to because that is there passion rather than some one who is union and gooing to pull sh*t like this SORRY BABE JUST MY OPINION

 

[TBONEZ0295]

OH by the way if your head of your local I assume that your like UNION GURU so this subject most likely pushed some buttons I am just out to wish TV well I feel bad for the guy...........If I'm not mistaken it is to my understanding that Canada unions are stronger because you even have to admit this would not happen here in the us and even last 2 days let alone 9:shrug: not in the catholic schools anyway.........

 

[fatdaddycool]

Are you suggesting that unionized teachers are in it for the money only, or that they have no compassion for the work? Are you also saying that Catholic non-unionized school teachers only do it for the love of the job and do not wish to be adequately compensated? You think that someone in any profession in any job doesn't or shouldn't have the right to improve their compensation package? Or maybe you are saying is that the moral majority should rule the wage scale of your childrens educators and that we as a society should continue along your lines of thinking saying tough shit!!! You don't like the money too bad......too bad you spent the last four years of your life getting an education and taking a nowhere job. Only to find there are avenues to be able to pay for your children to actually attend the school you are teaching at and you think that is wrong. How do you think teachers are attracted to the field Tbone? It isn't the money, so what is it? Do you think the country's present need for teachers has anything to do with people's attitudes that reflect your very own, don't let the door hit you in the ass?
I would hazard to guess your attitude would not be the same if your or your husbands employer or if self employed was stiffed out of restitution. If someone told you your profession was overpayed and summarily conspired to keep it low what would you do then. Hit the door? What will you do, your training and degree is all in this field? Would you go back to school? Now that would be ironic.

 

[TBONEZ0295]

Well lets see here fatdaddy I do believe that MOST teachers teach because of several reasons 1 of them not being the the 6 digit income they will never see......for the amount of schooling they have to go threw to become a teacher they could have choose another profession TEACHERS are for the most part very special people at least they should be..........because like you said your self our schools and teachers are raising todays youth so if they aren't happy where there at YUP i say theres the door..........................BUT LET ME ASK YOU THIS.............. TV- seemed pretty happy untill now...........yes the kids are also suffering as well as the parents who have there lives scheduled around there childrens school hours but leave it to the union to ruffle feathers now with only 2 weeks of school left. We pay our dues CEMENT MASONS local only because we have to........ you and i know what would happen if we were out on say a $50,000 job and we weren't union so in a sense you union people are no better to "ME" than the extorters that reside in the philly area !