Recession ended 6-09

Mags

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There are also many considerations about taxing too. For example, we as a country decided long ago that we would encourage home ownership by making mortgage payments deductible, and we also give tax breaks to encourage education, charitable contributions, the rearing of children, certain kinds of saving and many other things.

There were a lot of other things that our country decided long ago about: marriage is between a man and a woman, woman couldn't vote, slavery was legal, just for example.

The point is, things do change over time.

There is no real reason that we couldn't go to a flat tax system, other than change is hard and people don't like change.

Which is why the country is fighting our current change to socialism so hard......
 

Duff Miver

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The point is, things do change over time.

There is no real reason that we couldn't go to a flat tax system, other than change is hard and people don't like change.

.

You're still trying for a simple solution to a complex problem. A flat tax would cause many disruptions.

Right off, it would kill house sales, but that's just one tiny thing.

You remind me of the "nukers". Got a problem with Iran? Nuke 'em. Got a leaking well in the Gulf? Nuke it. Forest fire in CA? Nuke it. Competition from China? Nuke 'em.

Simple solutions do appeal to the simple minded.
 

Duff Miver

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Right behind you
I really don't see much difference between labor unions and corporations. .

That's right, Mags, but I'm afraid you don't comprehend what you just said.

Unions exist to give working folks an equal stance against a corporation. any corporation can mistreat any individual any time they please because they have the power, but, as the song says -

If you want higher wages, let me tell you what to do;
You got to talk to the workers in the shop with you;
You got to build you a union, got to make it strong,
But if you all stick together, now, 'twont he long.
You'll get shorter hours,
Better working conditions.
Vacations with pay,
Take your kids to the seashore.

It ain't quite this simple, so I better explain
Just why you got to ride on the union train;
'Cause if you wait for the boss to raise your pay,
We'll all be waiting till Judgment Day;
We'll all he buried - gone to Heaven -
Saint Peter'll be the straw boss then.

Now, you know you're underpaid, hut the boss says you ain't;
He speeds up the work till you're 'bout to faint,
You may he down and out, but you ain't beaten,
Pass out a leaflet and call a meetin'
Talk it over - speak your mind -
Decide to do something about it.

'Course, the boss may persuade some poor damn fool
To go to your meeting and act like a stool;
But you can always tell a stool, though - that's a fact;
He's got a yellow streak running down his back;
He doesn't have to stool - he'll always make a good living
On what he takes out of blind men's cups.

You got a union now; you're sitting pretty;
Put some of the boys on the steering committee.
The boss won't listen when one man squawks.
But he's got to listen when the union talks.
He better -
He'll be mighty lonely one of these days.

Suppose they're working you so hard it's just outrageous,
They're paying you all starvation wages;
You go to the boss, and the boss would yell,
"Before I'd raise your pay I'd see you all in Hell."
Well, he's puffing a big see-gar and feeling mighty slick,
He thinks he's got your union licked.
He looks out the window, and what does he see
But a thousand pickets, and they all agree
He's a bastard - unfair - slave driver -
Bet he beats his own wife.

Now, boy, you've come to the hardest time;
The boss will try to bust your picket line.
He'll call out the police, the National Guard;
They'll tell you it's a crime to have a union card.
They'll raid your meeting, hit you on the head.
Call every one of you a goddamn Red -
Unpatriotic - Moscow agents -
Bomb throwers, even the kids.

But out in Detroit here's what they found,
And out in Frisco here's what they found,
And out in Pittsburgh here's what they found,
And down in Bethlehem here's what they found,
That if you don't let Red-baiting break you up,
If you don't let stool pigeons break you up,
If you don't let vigilantes break you up,
And if you don't let race hatred break you up -
You'll win. What I mean,
Take it easy - but take it!*

*Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger
 

Duff Miver

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Right behind you
Another little ditty for Mags -

Come all you good workers
Good news to you I'll tell
Of how the good old union
Has come in here to dwell

Which side are you on boys?
Which side are you on?

My daddy was a miner
He's now in the air and sun
He'll be with you fellow workers
Until the battle's won

Which side are you on boys?
Which side are you on?

They say in Harlan County
There are no neutrals there
You'll either be a union man
Or a thug for J. H. Claire

Which side are you on boys?
Which side are you on?

Oh workers can you stand it?
Oh tell me how you can
Will you be a lousy scab
Or will you be a man?

Which side are you on boys?
Which side are you on?

Don't scab for the bosses
Don't listen to their lies
Poor folks ain't got a chance
Unless they organize

Which side are you on boys?
Which side are you on?
*

* Florence Reece, 1931
 
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Mags

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That's right, Mags, but I'm afraid you don't comprehend what you just said.

Unions exist to give working folks an equal stance against a corporation. any corporation can mistreat any individual any time they please because they have the power

Of course, that's the problem. Those evil corportations. Again, you are assuming those like you are dumb sheep - and will continue to work where they are unhappy and feel unfairly compensated.

But that's the beauty - a worker can leave and find a better job! Problem is, many of the people in a union are not motivated (due to union protection) and thus, won't be able to get a better job.

Unions do not promote good work and promotion - everything is based on time in a job, not how well you do.

There really is no need for unions at all anymore - a good employee will also find acceptable work.

And a good corporation will also provide good benefits and wages to attract better workers than their competitor - or they won't succeed.

We need more companies like Harley Davidson to stand up to unions.....
 

Duff Miver

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Of course, that's the problem. Those evil corportations. Again, you are assuming those like you are dumb sheep - and will continue to work where they are unhappy and feel unfairly compensated.

But that's the beauty - a worker can leave and find a better job! Problem is, many of the people in a union are not motivated (due to union protection) and thus, won't be able to get a better job.

Unions do not promote good work and promotion - everything is based on time in a job, not how well you do.

There really is no need for unions at all anymore - a good employee will also find acceptable work.

And a good corporation will also provide good benefits and wages to attract better workers than their competitor - or they won't succeed.

We need more companies like Harley Davidson to stand up to unions.....

You're living in a dream world, Mags. Yes, some things are better now than they were 60 years ago, but your disparagement of unions reveals your simplistic thinking.

Take this, for example - There really is no need for unions at all anymore - a good employee will also find acceptable work.

I recently spent most of a year in Spencer, WV, in the boonies of mining country. The only jobs available there are coal mining, and most residents of the area have not completed high school. They have only two choices - mine coal or starve. and we all know how much coal mining corporations value their employees - fuck, Mags, the coal companies and their whore physicians are still denying black lung disease.

And then there's this - We need more companies like Harley Davidson to stand up to unions

What you really mean is you want more corporations like H-D to back their employees up against the wall to pay the price for stupid management decisions, like Willie G's wet dream V-Rod which is an over-priced, under-performing POS. There isn't a decent Jap bike on the market which doesn't look better and go faster, and cost less. Harley can't sell V-Rods because the are crap. Willie's crap, managements crap. Yeah, H-D employees let H-D get them scared in though times and let H-D fuck them up the ass for Willie's mistake, but it will get them nothing in the end. H-D will move to Mexico anyway, and will then go bankrupt because the management is a bunch of fools. H-D was once a proud brand, but it's been run by fools (like AMF and Willie) for the last 30-40 years and will fail because it deserves to.

And fools like you will blame it on unions, like the unions which caused Studebaker and Packard to fail. Never mind that those companies tried to sell crap after long histories of making good products.

You're like doggie with his - "It's all the niggras fault".
Mags - "It's all the union's fault."

Right. No way could anything ever be the fault of college educated, suburban, white fratboys who worship at the foot of Sean Hannity.
 
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The Sponge

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:142smilie

Hillbilly? You dont even have a clue who or what I am Spongee. Makes you feel big to lash out with name calling.

QUOTE]

Let me know when they develop a monitor where i could just grab a few of u by the necks and i will gladly do it. Wouldn't that be great? I could grab u thru my moniitor and knock some sense into u instead of watching u vote for people who haven't had ur voting interest once in ur life but some guns and a flag u dumb shit. U patriotic puppet.
 

The Sponge

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:142smilie

Hillbilly? You dont even have a clue who or what I am Spongee. Makes you feel big to lash out with name calling.

:mj07:

Believe what you will but the government debt is rising to levels never seen before with all the bullshit bailouts and programs the dems are pushing through. Bigger govenrnment and more debt better for the country? Yea right. We will be lucky to survive whats going on now for sure. You are right bleedingpurple they are both evil but I will take a chance with the group that does not want to grow more government and spending with higher taxes to follow. Thank you.

:facepalm:

i didn't read ur whole post u dumb fuk but take a look at the charts where it was the party u voted for that has SPENT US INTO DEBT! U can't make this shit up on how incredible stupid u rednecks are. Ur type is a cancer to the working people of this country.
 
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The Sponge

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You're living in a dream world, Mags. Yes, some things are better now than they were 60 years ago, but your disparagement of unions reveals your simplistic thinking.

Take this, for example - There really is no need for unions at all anymore - a good employee will also find acceptable work.

I recently spent most of a year in Spencer, WV, in the boonies of mining country. The only jobs available there are coal mining, and most residents of the area have not completed high school. They have only two choices - mine coal or starve. and we all know how much coal mining corporations value their employees - fuck, Mags, the coal companies and their whore physicians are still denying black lung disease.

And then there's this - We need more companies like Harley Davidson to stand up to unions

What you really mean is you want more corporations like H-D to back their employees up against the wall to pay the price for stupid management decisions, like Willie G's wet dream V-Rod which is an over-priced, under-performing POS. There isn't a decent Jap bike on the market which doesn't look better and go faster, and cost less. Harley can't sell V-Rods because the are crap. Willie's crap, managements crap. Yeah, H-D employees let H-D get them scared in though times and let H-D fuck them up the ass for Willie's mistake, but it will get them nothing in the end. H-D will move to Mexico anyway, and will then go bankrupt because the management is a bunch of fools. H-D was once a proud brand, but it's been run by fools (like AMF and Willie) for the last 30-40 years and will fail because it deserves to.

And fools like you will blame it on unions, like the unions which caused Studebaker and Packard to fail. Never mind that those companies tried to sell crap after long histories of making good products.

You're like doggie with his - "It's all the niggras fault".
Mags - "It's all the union's fault."

Right. No way could anything ever be the fault of college educated, suburban, white fratboys who worship at the foot of Sean Hannity.

:0074 well said Duff. This greedy prick Mags would be the first guy i would love to pull thru the monitor I'm trying to invent.
 

Mags

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:0074 well said Duff. This greedy prick Mags would be the first guy i would love to pull thru the monitor I'm trying to invent.

Spongie... you are one guy that I would like to see try..... be careful, I won't pay my taxes, and you'll lose your government food stamps, rental assistance, and health care...:00hour
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Condensed version of thread-

Opinions from opposite ends of the redistribution. eg--the productice vs the parasitic

--the productive-I've I earned it-I'd like to keep it

--the parasite--it' not my fault-you owe us.

In a perfect world we could solve this arguement by seperating the two and letting each side live by their own values- and resources.


The most amusing part is we'd have the same element -while starving and destitute--still trying to tell those flourishing--how they should run things :)

?The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.?

Thomas Jefferson
 

The Sponge

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Spongie... you are one guy that I would like to see try..... be careful, I won't pay my taxes, and you'll lose your government food stamps, rental assistance, and health care...:00hour

Oh i would like to try u have that right. I use to go to Republican functions and watch ur woman sit there miserable while a bunch of u asshole gathered together and talked about how u could rip off ur next dollar while stepping on the neck of some poor guy who didn't know any better. The type of snake i can spot a mile away. I always love how pigs like u talk about food stamps, rental assistance, and other gov't programs like u know somebody gets them. Is it possible i just know u are a greedy manipulative dick and that is why i have a problem with u? A cancer to the working people of this country who just want to work and enjoy time with their families while assholes like u hope and pray that wages could be broken into pennies so these families suffer and some CEO walks off with another 50 million. I always have a small spot in my heart for a guy like u who abuses every democratic program he could find and then say's he hates gov't interfering in their lives. It is priceless
 

The Sponge

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By the way Mags i have had arguments with guys like u and the weird part was i made way more. It is one of the most strangest thing a guy can witness. Heck i had to leave one site because i found myself arguing with a guy on SS disability but had the same kind of mindset as u. Every time i asked him to give back all those payments he didn't want to hear about it. He was a big Rush Limbaugh fan. Go figue.
 

Mags

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By the way Mags i have had arguments with guys like u and the weird part was i made way more. It is one of the most strangest thing a guy can witness. Heck i had to leave one site because i found myself arguing with a guy on SS disability but had the same kind of mindset as u. Every time i asked him to give back all those payments he didn't want to hear about it. He was a big Rush Limbaugh fan. Go figue.

Spongy:

Typical liberal response... just insults and vulgarity, with no substance to any arguments.

Then the "I make way more than you do"... Really doubtful, but if it makes you feel better proclaiming that you do, then good for you. You must be in the top 0.5% in income - so you must be living the high life.

It is impossible to have a sane argument with any liberal - because as soon as they are challenged, they resort to name calling, race baiting, etc.

I'm sure it is an intelligence and maturity difference. Some day you'll grow up. Don't worry, I understand. I was younger and ideological at one time, but then I graduated college and got a job - and saw how much the gov't took out of my check. Then I became a Republican.

Some day, you'll mature and do the same.
 

The Sponge

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Spongy:

Typical liberal response... just insults and vulgarity, with no substance to any arguments.

Then the "I make way more than you do"... Really doubtful, but if it makes you feel better proclaiming that you do, then good for you. You must be in the top 0.5% in income - so you must be living the high life.

It is impossible to have a sane argument with any liberal - because as soon as they are challenged, they resort to name calling, race baiting, etc.

I'm sure it is an intelligence and maturity difference. Some day you'll grow up. Don't worry, I understand. I was younger and ideological at one time, but then I graduated college and got a job - and saw how much the gov't took out of my check. Then I became a Republican.

Some day, you'll mature and do the same.

Typical neocon response. If u don't agree with one u are labeled a liberal. Trying to reason with a jackoff like one of ur kind just doesn't wet my taste buds anymore. There is no reasoning with greedy fuks who are just puppets to the corporate elite. It has to be something in ur DNA. You see billionaires on TV and u think u are gonna become one. The chances are less then one percent but by god ur gonna keep on voting for their best interest even tho it is against ur very own. You are worried about ur check? That is laughable since every Republican that gets in office explodes the debt. The numbers are out there and this can't be denied, so u keep on thinking Repunblicans save u money and i will keep on laughing on how a gullible nitwit like urself gets played every time u vote.
I would like to keep the debates clean but ya can read ten years of them right on this site and look how DTB is as dumb as he was ten years ago. U think after being embarassed over and over again by hundreds of posters thru the years, the guy would have learned something. Same goes for u. Another middle class jackoff who votes for billionaires right. A true cancer to the working people of this country.
 

THE KOD

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Then the "I make way more than you do"... Really doubtful, but if it makes you feel better proclaiming that you do, then good for you. You must be in the top 0.5% in income - so you must be living the high life.
...............................................................


mike09222010.jpg


no wonder Mags says what he says.

he's rich :142smilie
 

Trench

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...............................................................

no wonder Mags says what he says.

he's rich :142smilie
Well, ya gotta admit Scotty... it's nice to have a couple of aristocrats like Mags & DTB (below)
here to share their wisdom with us serfs... :lol:

Copy%20of%20redneck_tax-cuts.jpg
 

Trampled Underfoot

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I would like to keep the debates clean but ya can read ten years of them right on this site and look how DTB is as dumb as he was ten years ago. U think after being embarassed over and over again by hundreds of posters thru the years, the guy would have learned something.

You know I just started posting in here when Hedgy was going off like an ass, before that I had never really paid attention to this forum. You are spot on. I went through the archives recently. Its a goldmine. How someone can be that fucking stupid all these years is beyond me. :facepalm:
 
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