Religious conservatives have finally come down to the level of liberals

Nick Douglas

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ironlock (a conservative) made what in my opinion was the best post in the history of Mad Jack's a few years ago. He posted a speech given by Dennis Prager (a noted conservative) that absolutely blew me away. The speech was made in the early part of this decade and it argued that America was becoming too secular. A return to religion was the only answer, Prager said. It contained such piercing insight that it literally changed my life (no shit).

One of the most striking parts of the essay was his assesment of liberal Jews. He said that liberal Jews had become much more liberal than Jewish. That a liberal Jewish mother would be more aghast if little Ari brought home a conservative than if he brought home a Catholic. I can tell you that this is true in a disturbing number of cases. Hell, Chioma is Catholic and I honestly believe she wouldn't care what religion I believed in as long as I wasn't a conservative. (hey, she's young and silly)

A half decade later, conservatives have fallen into this same trap. I mean, you see it everywhere. Look at this forum. Conservatives take far more care to promote a right wing agenda than they ever would to promote their religion. Lunatic fringe professors and solicitors for charities draw more Christian conservative ire than the crisis of priests in the Catholic Church ever could.

They'll tell you otherwise. To a man, religious conservatives will profess that worship comes first and all secular aspects of life come second. For many, this is true. But for many more, it's a hollow claim. Their money, their energy and their general behavior is much more pointed towards the conservative movement than the any religious movement.

This is not to say things have reached the point that they have with liberals and their religion. It's still a wide margin. But as this, "cultural war," heats up and ConservativeMatch.com draws more and more JDate alumni, religious conservatives are going to continue to let their secular interests take precedence over their faith.
 

dr. freeze

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we care more about fringe professors than crises in our own churches?

that is ridiculous assertion

you are completely out of touch with reality
 

dr. freeze

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the catholic church might be a different story, but if you have any knowledge of what went on the reformation, you will realize that Christians have been fighting corruption in the church for 500 years vigorously

and it continues today.....95% of Christians cannot stand what is going on in the televangelism world where these pukes get up there and deceive people with "healings"

and their is geniune outrage about it -- much more so than we have against any wacko professor because we view it as blasphemy
 

pirate fan

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Nick, that is a pretty broad brush your painting with. Personally, I see my religion as primary and secular secondary. I may be the exception to the rule in your eyes but I don't side with the conservative view exclusively, there are some good liberal stances as well. My religion plays a major role in my life and I try to look at issues as what is best for people and in the eyes of God, not what my party thinks. I think most people can think for themselves and can draw their own conclusions, regardless what their conservative or liberal buddies think. As far as my church, (Catholic), I am very upset with the recent happenings. Priests, as well as teachers, doctors, or anyone who is in a position of trust should be held accountable regardless of who they are. Your statements are certainly correct for some as religion seems to get a bad rap from many areas.
 

smurphy

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I think most of the Religious Right does pick and chose which parts of the religion they want to emphasize - and these parts of course conform with their platform. The Bible talks much more about being a steward of the earth, protecting and caring for it's environment than it does about the sin of homosexuality for example.

But this is not surprising o - it's basically just human nature. It scares me a little though when people who believe in Revelations, the end of the world, and final conflicts are making decisions for us....especially when the enemy is even more hellbent on destruction. It's like a "perfect storm".
 

dr. freeze

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does it scare you that people who believe in revelations have been making decisions for the government for 228 years now?

and before then, people who believed in revelations decided they wanted independence?

and those who came across the Atlantic pioneering this great land in the 15th and 16th centuries also believed in Revelation?

scary, huh
 

dr. freeze

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being a good steward of the earth is by and large taught across the country and granted, there are several areas where the Republican party can be more environmentally friendly -- do not confuse the religious folks to necessarily be proponents of pollution

however, homosexuality is being forced down people's throats and lots of people dont like it

that is why it is an issue now
 

smurphy

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Why do you have to be such a jackass? Just conversing here.

I just get an impression that the administration feels like they ARE part of Revelations....that the postlife cause is bigger than than the current real life one.

It's just an imporession I have - based on being part of a typical Conservative Christian church for many years growing up and knowing their philosophy.
 

smurphy

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dr. freeze said:
however, homosexuality is being forced down people's throats and lots of people dont like it

that is why it is an issue now

what, in the form of spongebob?
 

dr. freeze

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perhaps, i dont watch spongebob but i wouldnt put it past hollywood

school curriculum, the militant homosexual rights (priviledges) movements, hollywood's portrayel of anyone who thinks homosexuality is a perversion, etc. etc
 

dr. freeze

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smurphy said:
Why do you have to be such a jackass? Just conversing here.

I just get an impression that the administration feels like they ARE part of Revelations....that the postlife cause is bigger than than the current real life one.

It's just an imporession I have - based on being part of a typical Conservative Christian church for many years growing up and knowing their philosophy.

i am conversing too

just trying to invoke reason

you said you were scared because people believe in Revelation, i am trying to assue you liberals with such bright outlooks on life that people who believe in Revelation have been running our country before it was born
 

dawgball

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Nick--you have been very good at sparking discussion lately, and I can only hope that some of your statements are purposely one-sided to provoke conversation.

For me, a Catholic and a Republican, my religion is first in my life. I do not spout off about religion on a consistent basis because I do feel that it is an individual choice to practice a religion. I can say that I will NEVER vote for someone who is pro-abortion no matter how well-construed their fiscal and global plans are.

If people are engaged in a religious discussion and I feel I have something to add, I certainly will. But, unlike the way I see liberals, it is not my passion to prove anyone who disagrees with me that they are wrong and an imbecile.

A good example is this past Presidential election. You had two men who both "state" that they are Pro-Life. One has the personal conviction to stand behind that belief, while the other gave a different answer for votes. One could say that Bush would do the same thing if his party was Pro-Abortion, but my personal opinion is that he would not. But, it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong about something.
 

ocelot

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It sure would be nice if this country could move past the abortion issue. Why can't women be allowed to make their own choices?

How can men presume to make laws for women? Sounds like the Taliban to me. Religious fervor is a disease of the mind.
 

dr. freeze

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ocelot you are clearly misunderstanding the pro-life side of the argument

pro-life advocates believe that it is a life which must be protected...

assuming that one cannot invalidate this statement with fact or reason, which one cannot -- and in essence evidence supports the contrary

one must step back and ask

"if my position is wrong, what are the consequences if the other side rightt?"

for the pro-lifer, a choice is denied, a choice after the choice had been made to get pregnant (in 99% of situations)

for the pro-choicer, a life is ended, a body mutilated

try to be a little more open minded and look at it from all perspectives
 

dawgball

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ocelot--my bad for bringing up a poor subject. I probably should have chosen something less controversial. BUT on the flip side of your argument... Why can't this country get past the abortion issue and protect unborn children?

Just another way to look at things. :tongue
 

djv

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Heck woman are lucky they can vote. They had to do that nasty thing called protest. President back then wanted them put in prison. Was a great thing there protesting. Thank God we still can do it. Because you never know when your protest ends up being the right way. To many Men just seem to believe God mad us helpers when he made woman. It's like the gays. They have to be wrong right. Are they born that way. Or just think it's neat to be different. Think about it. Do you think Cheneys kid likes all the attention. Witch one of her parents has the gay jeans.
Folks never let your government or anyone running it think they have captured the only right way. Remember we still have the best place here in America to hang out. Just don't let folks get near our constitution.
 
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smurphy

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There are just as many women against abortion as well. It's not like it's just a big group of men trying to outlaw it. Abortion - will never be resolved. Funny though that if someone protests a war, they are considered un-American. Yet if you protest abortions, you are considered a patriot.
 

Nick Douglas

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I made clear in my post that there are still far more conservatives who do practice keeping God number one in their lives and politics number two. BUT, there are many that don't. Also, there are a growing number that give lip service to their religion but whose actions betray what they say.

Obviously I'm pro-life because I'm pro-personal freedom. Why is it that conservatives always want to get in other people's business (gays, pregnant women, nutjob college professors, pro wrestling promoters), but when it comes to taxation, they get all hornery when Uncle Sam wants his cut?
 

dr. freeze

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i assume you are pro-choice Nick

if you are a conservative you adhere theory that government must protect life and liberty so the pro-life position does not sway from that one if you believe that the unborn has constitutional rights

unless you only look at the issue from one standpoint...which for some reason you do a lot of times
 

dr. freeze

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smurphy said:
There are just as many women against abortion as well. It's not like it's just a big group of men trying to outlaw it. Abortion - will never be resolved. Funny though that if someone protests a war, they are considered un-American. Yet if you protest abortions, you are considered a patriot.

protesting a war hurts morale among the troops

i have a problem with that

i don't have a problem with the prolifers or prochoicers protesting as long as they do it peacefully
 
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