And Americans get affordable health care.:00hour
Gobble, Antonio, gobble.:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:
Gobble, Antonio, gobble.:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:
Scalia eats the broccoli
- Thread starter Duff Miver
- Start date
Please define 'affordable' for me please, Duff as the true costs of this bill are not yet known and have not been defined. Affordable for whom?
What I find puzzling is Obama himself said the mandate was not a tax yet the Court ruled that it actually is?
Will this be reported now on Obama's record as increasing taxes on Americans during a recession?
Just questions that I have....
I'm surprised by the ruling but it is what it is
What I find puzzling is Obama himself said the mandate was not a tax yet the Court ruled that it actually is?
Will this be reported now on Obama's record as increasing taxes on Americans during a recession?
Just questions that I have....
I'm surprised by the ruling but it is what it is
Somewhat surprised that it was 6-3, and also surprised Roberts was the figurehead for the ruling. But that does tell me that much of what was ruled on made a lot of sense originally. Time will tell.
Duff maybe u can answer this. Im not an expert on this health care issue by any means. At first i thought this extreme right wing court was gonna embarrass Obama and shoot this thing down. After thinking about it for awhile i thought one of them would jump just like they did today because in my mind this mandate passing is huge for insurance companies and their profits. They have their four douchebags crying foul but are they really mad? They had their one guy jump ship but of course he brings up the word tax so his right wing buddies can run with something while again protecting incoming revenue for the insurance companies. Profit is the number one thing with this supreme court. To me this is a dog and pony show with this mandate. I can't see how the Insurance companies lose here. :shrug:
it is june now and im out about ten grand in health care cost already. wonderful system. I would be fine with it if all my ailments were cured but none of them are.
Yeah, I thought the consensus was that the one thing they DIDN?T address was cost of health care. This program will nicely provide more health care for people who didn?t have it before, but how will this make health care rates plateau or go down? I don?t see it; if anything I see this causing moderately more available care, moderately less quality of care, and moderately more expensive care.
I do not follow you, Sponge and I am not being argumentative.
I am a Gary Johnson supporter, donate to his campaign and have worked on his campaign in Ohio.
I am not a "right-winger".
I also do not listen to talk radio or watch much in the way of TV news.
So, what 'right wing talking point" are you bringing up?
I am a libertarian - Congress has now been given the power to TAX anything they want to. In the Constitution - there was no federal tax until the 16th amendment was added to the Constitution. Go see what has to be done to ratify an amendment. Now, 9 appointed judges have given Congress more power than an amendment to the Constitution. And you are worried about a right wing talking point?
I'm worried about my freedom.
The socialist creep is here to stay.
As for costs, health insurances premiums are up 35% over the past 2 years.
I am a Gary Johnson supporter, donate to his campaign and have worked on his campaign in Ohio.
I am not a "right-winger".
I also do not listen to talk radio or watch much in the way of TV news.
So, what 'right wing talking point" are you bringing up?
I am a libertarian - Congress has now been given the power to TAX anything they want to. In the Constitution - there was no federal tax until the 16th amendment was added to the Constitution. Go see what has to be done to ratify an amendment. Now, 9 appointed judges have given Congress more power than an amendment to the Constitution. And you are worried about a right wing talking point?
I'm worried about my freedom.
The socialist creep is here to stay.
As for costs, health insurances premiums are up 35% over the past 2 years.
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This, from 2009:
Since 1999, health insurance premiums for families rose 131%, the report found, far more than the general rate of inflation, which increased 28% over the same period. Overall, health care in the United States is expected to cost $2.6 trillion this year, or 17% of the nation?s economy, according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office.
IMO, to talk about the rise over the past two years is at least in small part due to what's been going on unfettered for years - before Obama, before anyone was really talking about the issue. Yes, costs went up. They went up because insurance companies pushed them up, and there was/and is no check on what they charge.
I'm not suggesting this ruling will help the cost of healthcare. I'm not sure what will. The cost of drugs is a huge part of the issue, I think. But to blame rising costs on Obamacare specifically doesn't deal with the reality of the issue, in my view. Especially since very little of it has taken effect, and the Insurance companies are doing what they do - again - because they have an opportunity.
Let me try to explain this to you:
a) the cost of healthcare is not defined by the cost of insurance...the cost of healthcare is dependent on how many dollars it takes (labor, facilities, equipment, overhead, etc) to provide a service to a patient. Insurance premiums are based on how much healthcare costs.
b) if that does not resonate...consider that you don't say that the cost of buying a car has gone up 20% in 10 years soley based on the cost of insuring that car
c) what drives the cost of healthcare...supply and demand without the direct customer component. That means that customers don't shop for the best care or costs...they are directed by either a doctor or their own insurance coverage OR to the hospital closest to them when they have no coverage so they don't care where they go
d) why is the cost of care high...because those that pay have to cover all of those who don't pay AND have to pay for stuff they may not need (a heart transplant) because that service/care has to be available in case they do need it
e) what is the impact of Obamacare...everyone is covered which sounds good but, consider this:
1) regardless of ability to pay, everyone gets emergency care...even the moron girl who held up the sign thanking Obamacare that she lived (she had no job and no insurance and went to the ED after the bill was signed and her life was saved...exactly the same thing that would have happened before Obamacare) 2) people will be covered and, therefore, will go to the hospital whenever they have a sniffle whereas, before, since they couldn't pay, they took two aspirin and stayed home...what impact will that have on people who go to the Emergency Room for true emergencies plus what impact on healthcare costs...they go up as there are more unnecessary visits that are reimbursed at below cost rates 3) maybe it's good that these people now go to the hospital whereas before they didn't because maybe they have a life threatening condition???? Do the math but, take out of the equation anyone with a serious condition because they went to the hospital anyway...with or without insurance...and got care.
The bottom line is less access for all, higher costs and further strain on hospitals which will cause consolidation and more smaller towns and cities losing hospitals.
And the most important issue...the government is now telling us (again) what to do and what to buy which is another step toward SSD's accurate statement of socialist creep.
We are just a bunch of lemmings looking for someone to blame, someone to take care of us and someone to make us feel good.
Vote for Gary Johnson and send a message
a) the cost of healthcare is not defined by the cost of insurance...the cost of healthcare is dependent on how many dollars it takes (labor, facilities, equipment, overhead, etc) to provide a service to a patient. Insurance premiums are based on how much healthcare costs.
b) if that does not resonate...consider that you don't say that the cost of buying a car has gone up 20% in 10 years soley based on the cost of insuring that car
c) what drives the cost of healthcare...supply and demand without the direct customer component. That means that customers don't shop for the best care or costs...they are directed by either a doctor or their own insurance coverage OR to the hospital closest to them when they have no coverage so they don't care where they go
d) why is the cost of care high...because those that pay have to cover all of those who don't pay AND have to pay for stuff they may not need (a heart transplant) because that service/care has to be available in case they do need it
e) what is the impact of Obamacare...everyone is covered which sounds good but, consider this:
1) regardless of ability to pay, everyone gets emergency care...even the moron girl who held up the sign thanking Obamacare that she lived (she had no job and no insurance and went to the ED after the bill was signed and her life was saved...exactly the same thing that would have happened before Obamacare) 2) people will be covered and, therefore, will go to the hospital whenever they have a sniffle whereas, before, since they couldn't pay, they took two aspirin and stayed home...what impact will that have on people who go to the Emergency Room for true emergencies plus what impact on healthcare costs...they go up as there are more unnecessary visits that are reimbursed at below cost rates 3) maybe it's good that these people now go to the hospital whereas before they didn't because maybe they have a life threatening condition???? Do the math but, take out of the equation anyone with a serious condition because they went to the hospital anyway...with or without insurance...and got care.
The bottom line is less access for all, higher costs and further strain on hospitals which will cause consolidation and more smaller towns and cities losing hospitals.
And the most important issue...the government is now telling us (again) what to do and what to buy which is another step toward SSD's accurate statement of socialist creep.
We are just a bunch of lemmings looking for someone to blame, someone to take care of us and someone to make us feel good.
Vote for Gary Johnson and send a message
Misleading, Bob. Some of what you offer is true, and I don't say AT ALL that the only cause of high costs is insurance. Far from it. I did mention pharma as being a big problem for costs, possibly the biggest in some cases. But to dismiss insurance as having little to no role in this is just not fair. As an example, I'll offer this story from last year. There are others.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ethan-rome/the-truth-about-health-in_b_863632.html
Yes, it's from Huffington - and will be dismissed because of that. But there are details in there that resonate with someone trying to be objective about the entire issue. Especially about insurance company costs and profits.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ethan-rome/the-truth-about-health-in_b_863632.html
Yes, it's from Huffington - and will be dismissed because of that. But there are details in there that resonate with someone trying to be objective about the entire issue. Especially about insurance company costs and profits.
This just in...public companies are in business to maximize profits for their shareholders.
If the prices they charge are too high, consumers search for lower cost options.
If you are so worried about insurance costs in lieu of the real issues, do something about it and write to your lawmaker and insist on caps on malpractice payouts.
That will immediately reduce healthcare costs (fewer tests/procedures done only to protect against lawsuits) and will free up capital to reinvest in providing healthcare rather than to middlemen that adds no value.
Search for information and insights from doctors and people taking care of patients rather than reposts on left-leaning websites.
BTW...I'm not sure if you fly anywhere but, next time you are in the ED remember that, just like on the plane, you may be sitting next to a person who is paying ten times less than you for the same service and....for your benefit...you get to stand in line behind that person while you or your wife or your kid sits and waits and suffers. You will have lots of time to whine because insurance companies are making too much money just like the puppermasters want.
If the prices they charge are too high, consumers search for lower cost options.
If you are so worried about insurance costs in lieu of the real issues, do something about it and write to your lawmaker and insist on caps on malpractice payouts.
That will immediately reduce healthcare costs (fewer tests/procedures done only to protect against lawsuits) and will free up capital to reinvest in providing healthcare rather than to middlemen that adds no value.
Search for information and insights from doctors and people taking care of patients rather than reposts on left-leaning websites.
BTW...I'm not sure if you fly anywhere but, next time you are in the ED remember that, just like on the plane, you may be sitting next to a person who is paying ten times less than you for the same service and....for your benefit...you get to stand in line behind that person while you or your wife or your kid sits and waits and suffers. You will have lots of time to whine because insurance companies are making too much money just like the puppermasters want.
Aren?t the people on MSNBC creaming in their pants equally as pathetic??? These outfits are supposed to be non biased news providers. Sad we cant just get the news anymore :shrug:
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Yes, they are. I don't watch MSNBC. CNN is more neutral but I don't really watch TV for my news.
So does that not make the point valid? If Obama would have called it a tax to begin with there is no way in hell Obama Care would have had a chance. It was imperative that Obama promise again and again that Obama care would not raise taxes.. Well so much for that...
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Now is Obamacare good for the country??? Hell im not a lawyer or an economist and time will tell. But what rubs me the wrong way about this is the government forcing me to do anything. The precedence has now been set. The federal govt can tax and panelize citizens based on behaviors and choices they make. Whats next? Where does it end? Just aint right folks (oh dear I sound like illumi)
Obama dont get enough credit for his quiet intelligence.
You get shit done any way yu can.
thats American politics.
At least all Americans will have to pay something so the rest of us can have a more stable policy of rates.
