Scott......good read

maverick2112

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MITCH ALBOM: Gritty Pistons rain on Spurs' parade, force Game 7
BY MITCH ALBOM
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST

June 22, 2005


SAN ANTONIO -- They took every stone the devil could throw, and they caught the last one and threw it back in his face. It took history. It took belief. It took desperation in every dribble. But mostly it took hope, and with every Pistons achievement -- every Rip Hamilton jumper, every Rasheed Wallace put-back, every Ben Wallace block, every Chauncey Billups three-pointer -- there was hope. They were supposed to die, because that's what teams do when faced with silly odds. But here they were at the end, heading off the floor with one more game to play.


Dead men walking.


And slamming. And blocking. And jamming. And stealing. And staying -- staying put, staying alive, staying in Texas for one last game to settle the kingdom.


Put down that bugle. Hold off the eulogy. In any and every way you can push a series to its limit, the Pistons now have done it. On the first day of summer, they held off the setting sun, and became the first team in history to win Game 6 in the NBA Finals on the road and force a Game 7 there to decide it. The score was 95-86.


But the real score was Desperation 1, Expiration 0.


"A lot of people thought we were out," Rasheed Wallace told ABC-TV after the series-tying victory. "They had their Cristal (champagne) ready. ... But we'll be here Thursday."


They made sure of it Tuesday night. They did it by coming out hard and never letting up. They did it with a stifling defense and a blow-for-blow offense. They did it with deadeye shooting. They did it with hustle and second-chance plays, and they did it by defying injury, foul trouble and the unending brilliance of Manu Ginobili (21 points, 10 rebounds), who almost won this thing by himself. But he is a man. And this is a team.


And the team is still here.


Dead men breathing.



A game for the ages
What a game! It was like 48 minutes of sprinting, 48 minutes without gulping a breath.


Here was Ben Wallace taking a lob from Tayshaun Prince and ramming it halfway to Mexico. Here was Billups, on a night when every point was critical, cranking up the fattest baskets possible, hitting an amazing five treys for 21 points. Here was Hamilton, finding his jumper when they needed it most, leading the team with 23 points. Here was Prince, playing at a different level, one-hand slamming, floating down the lane, grabbing precious rebounds when they were most needed.


Here was Rasheed Wallace, coming off the self-described "bonehead" play of Game 5, surviving five fouls to come back late for key baskets and a key steal in the final two minutes.


As a result, there were be a seventh game in the NBA Finals for the first time in 11 years. All the things that defined the Pistons' championship last year were on display in what could have been their last game Tuesday night.


"We're just tough, man," Billups told the TV crew. "We're tough as nails. We always find a way to climb out of that foxhole."


And San Antonio has to crawl back in it. How ready were the Spurs for a victory? Not only had a parade been planned for Thursday (a fact that made the Pistons' locker-room blackboard) but in the lower-level hallways of the SBC Center there were stacks of newly printed T-shirts that read "San Antonio Spurs, NBA Champions, 2005." There were hundreds of them, ready for use, intended for the party that was coming once the Spurs buried the Pistons.


And then the game was played.


Oh, yeah. Forgot about that.



One night to go
"This is what our team is about," coach Larry Brown said. "I've been with these guys for two years, and they don't disappoint me in terms of their desire to win."


Tuesday marked Brown's 100th career playoff victory. In a building where the Pistons had not scored 80 points this season, they scored 95. In a town where they hadn't won a game in eight years, they won a game when it mattered most. This is what they do. They break the mold.


"Can you talk about what it means to force a Game 7?" someone asked Billups.


"Yeah. It means everything. We go back to the hotel instead of the airplane."


Admit it. You didn't expect this, did you? You thought the specter of winning two games in this town would weigh like a metal jacket. You thought the Pistons would fold. You thought the Spurs would ride the home court to victory. You thought it -- or somebody you knew thought it.


What matters is that the Pistons didn't think it. Whatever the outcome of this down-to-one-game Finals, Detroit already has established some kind of record for resiliency. The Pistons came back against Indiana. They came back against Miami -- and won Game 7 on the road. They've now come back twice against the Spurs and whittled the season to a single night, 48 minutes of basketball, that suddenly seems impervious to location.


Sure, the Pistons dig their own holes sometimes. But there is more heart in this team than in a zoo full of lions. How astounding was this? Consider this: The last time the Pistons won a road game in this town -- of any kind -- Grant Hill had a triple-double.


You remember Grant Hill, right, kids?


Ask your older brother.


Meanwhile, to paraphrase Langston Hughes: What happens to a defeat deferred? Does it dry up sweet like a raisin in the sun, or fester like a sore and run? Who is more affected by this game? Do the Spurs rack themselves silly for a wasted chance? Are they pushed to the wall of what might have been? Do they come back harder in Game 7?


And the Pistons? Did they leave it all on the floor Tuesday night? Or will they find even greater spirit now that the season, the series and the title defense is shrunken to a single frame?


Time will tell. But no matter what happens, the Pistons already have delivered an amazing trunk full of memories, one that glows with the aura of an indomitable spirit. And here's a nice little stat: The last 10 times the Pistons have had one game to win a series they have gotten it done.


Chew on that for the next 24 hours. Thursday will come soon enough. For now, remember Tuesday, when summer began and basketball didn't end. The Pistons are defying critics, trends, analysts -- even the calendar. And that sound you hear is a hopeful heartbeat, thumping like a basketball.


This is kind of fun, isn't it?
 

maverick2112

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And here's a nice little stat: The last 10 times the Pistons have had one game to win a series they have gotten it done.


Scott......just making sure you caught this...........not bad for a team that has been so "LUCKY"...........of course all these 10 wins were against injured opponents..........

You know all the Detroit fans cant say with 100% certainty that the Pistons are a championship team.............. :mj07:
 
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Scott4USC

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maverick2112 said:
Scott......just making sure you caught this...........not bad for a team that has been so "LUCKY"...........of course all these 10 wins were against injured opponents..........

You know all the Detroit fans cant say with 100% certainty that the Pistons are a championship team.............. :mj07:

I said Pistons were LUCKY---FORTUNATE-- etc that almost every playoff opponent was at less than 100% and star players were the ones injured. I don't see how anybody could argue against this. I don't think Pistons won by luck and I think they were a very good team last year as they are this year. They just benefit from opponents getting/being injured and that is a fact!

Pistons were a championship team last year and maybe this year. You misquoted me. I said nobody can say with 100% confidence Pistons were the best team in NBA last year or this year since they didn't beat anybody worthy at 100%. Think about it. Pistons in the last 2 years have not faced a team at 100% in Eastern Conf. finals or NBA finals. At those stages in playoffs, you are facing the elite teams. If you have not beaten an elite team at 100%, how can you say with certainty you are the best NBA team that year? At least beat 1 worthy opponent at full strength. That is all I ask. You are in denial if you think Pistons were the best team in NBA. I am not saying they weren't, I am saying we will never know.

I will throw out a couple of the many examples that support my argument.

Can anybody say with 100% confidence Pistons would beat Heat this year if Shaq was 100% and Wade not getting seriously injured for 2.5 games? NOBODY CAN!

Can anybody say with 100% confidence if Pistons could beat Spurs if Duncan was 100%, Ginobili didn't suffer thigh contusion, and Devin Brown never got injured in season? That is 3 players for Spurs and 2/3 being the 2 best Spurs players not 100%. Funny how Spurs lost games 3 and 4 and Ginobili suffered his injury start of game 3 and game 3 was VERY CLOSE for 3 quarters. These are the facts and nobody can deny it.

Can anybody say with 100% confidence Pistons would have beaten Spurs if Malone was at 100%? I have proven Malone puts up same #'s as R. Wallace and proven that Malone was the 3rd best player and scorer for Lakers. Malone was a big time player for Lakers, not just a 40 year old has been like many think. On top of that, Kobe was not 100% mentally and physically. Another people forget is that the backup CENTER and Power Forward, Horace Grant did not play. Losing your top 2nd string center and top second string PF doesn't hurt your team? That is like taking away A. McDyse who is 2nd string PF and 2nd string Center. Not saying Grant is same productivity as McDyse, but he was injured and was counted to produce for Lakers. These are the facts and nobody can deny them! You cannot be 100% certain Pistons would have won against a healthy Laker squad. Pistons still could have beaten a healthy Laker squad in 5, 6 or 7 games but WE WILL NEVER KNOW!

I can give more and more examples of this. That is what is so amazing about this Pistons squad. THEY ARE SO LUCKY TO BENEFIT FROM THESE UNFORTUNATE CIRCUMSTANCES TO THEIR OPPONENTS!

You never see the media bring this up! These are facts, not just opinions. Why when everyone praises the Pistons on being so great and being great closers etc. never mention they were against teams who had star players missing or injured. It is a fact, and def. worth mentioning. It def. played a huge role. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT! I am not saying Pistons would not have won but I am saying you don't know if they could have won. Especially since Pistons struggled against some of these injured opponents. If you don't know for sure, you cannot be 100% confident they were the best team in NBA. This is not hard to understand and very logical. But you want to be naive and take the argument, you win out, you are the best, then that is called being in DENIAL! I would not have such a strong argument if Pistons played and beat at least 1 team that was 100% in Eastern Conf. finals or NBA finals the last 2 years.

I know this offends posters especially Pistons fans but sometimes the truth hurts. I am not making any of this up. Again, I think Pistons were very good team last year and are a very good team this year.
 

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Scott, Altough I understand your point and agree that the piston MAY have benefitted from injuries, the only fact is that detroit did beat those teams.

It works the same way around. Can you say 100% that detroit would have lost to a healthy Miami, LA, NJ, Indy? You can't because is sports and you only get to play the game once.

It is a fact that,, Miami had a chance to win game 7. They were up 5 (I think it was 5) at home, with a few minutes left and lost. Fact, SA had a chance to tie the game with 3 minutes left at home and couldn't do it. Both of these team were heallthy enough to win these games, but didn't. Sure maybe the entire series would be different is duncan had good ankles, but either way, they had a chance to win and couldn't get it done. The pistons have proved over and over, they can get it done
 

maverick2112

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I said nobody can say with 100% confidence Pistons were the best team in NBA last year or this year since they didn't beat anybody worthy at 100%.

Thats you very first error............What makes you think you can determine what someones confidence level is???
 

maverick2112

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Can anybody say with 100% confidence Pistons would beat Heat this year if Shaq was 100% and Wade not getting seriously injured for 2.5 games? NOBODY CAN!
I can...........they won gm 1 at Miami and game 4 with Shaq and Wade ok...........
Can anybody say with 100% confidence Pistons would have beaten Spurs if Malone was at 100%?
Yes I can.........they would have won in 6 gms instead of 5 games like they did............
Can anybody say with 100% confidence if Pistons could beat Spurs if Duncan was 100%, Ginobili didn't suffer thigh contusion, and Devin Brown never got injured in season?
Yes I can...........and I am 100% sure of these answers...........
 

Scott4USC

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Scott4USC said:
I said nobody can say with 100% confidence Pistons were the best team in NBA last year or this year since they didn't beat anybody worthy at 100%.

maverick2112 said:
Thats you very first error............What makes you think you can determine what someones confidence level is???


Good point but I proven that Pistons faced teams nowhere near 100% and teams with injuries to star players. I think I am dealing with inteligent and logical posters here at Madjacks. So if I proved that Pistons didn't beat healthy opponents, especially in the Eastern Conf. Finals and NBA finals, a logical person cannot say with 100% confidence that Pistons would have beaten those teams if they were healthy. On top of that, Pistons struggled against some of those injured opponents and had to win desperate games. That further strengthens my argument. I never said Pistons would not have won, but my argument is NOBODY can say for certain they would have won. Injuries are part of the game and Pistons went out and won. I have no problem with them being champs. But they didn't beat 1 healthy opponent in East finals and NBA finals. That is a major red flag. Not 1 healthy opponent!


snoozer said:
Scott, Altough I understand your point and agree that the piston MAY have benefitted from injuries, the only fact is that detroit did beat those teams.

Pistons did benefit. Unless you think being injured improves someones basketball skill.

snoozer said:
It works the same way around. Can you say 100% that detroit would have lost to a healthy Miami, LA, NJ, Indy? You can't because is sports and you only get to play the game once.

I said repeatedly that Pistons might have won out whether or not their opponents were 100% healthy or not. I hope everyone understands when I say 100% healthy I am implying star players and not knicks/knacks. I have said repeatedly Pistons are/were a very good team.

snoozer said:
It is a fact that,, Miami had a chance to win game 7. They were up 5 (I think it was 5) at home, with a few minutes left and lost. Fact, SA had a chance to tie the game with 3 minutes left at home and couldn't do it. Both of these team were heallthy enough to win these games, but didn't. Sure maybe the entire series would be different is duncan had good ankles, but either way, they had a chance to win and couldn't get it done. The pistons have proved over and over, they can get it done

But my question is this. Miami up 5 in 4th, would Miami have been up 9 if Wade was 100% and Shaq 100%? Would there even been a game 7? Or would Miami still won if Wade was 100% and Shaq not 100%? Same with Spurs. Would Spurs won game 3 which was close for 3q if Ginobili didnt suffer thigh contusion? Maybe, maybe not. Would Duncan run faster, jump higher, move better laterally if he didn't have 2 sore ankles? Would Devin Brown be a big contrubutor if he didn't suffer back injury which taken him out of playoff rotation. Like I have been saying, I am not making any of this up and when you have so many question marks, question marks surrounding star players who are proven in the league, you cannot say with 100% confidence Pistons were the best team or won each series.

Injuries to role players are not so heavily weighted. Some teams do face and beat injured teams. Injuries are part of the game. But with the Pistons we are talking about star players not 100% and multiple teams and every opponent in east finals and nba finals. Like I said, that is a red flag!
 

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Why are role players not heavily weighted? If the role player is hurt or injured, it makes it easier to double the star. Role player's are what make Star even better. Team's don't win championships without having role players. Iverson has shown this, reggies has shown this, Ewing showed this.
 

Scott4USC

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snoozer said:
Why are role players not heavily weighted? If the role player is hurt or injured, it makes it easier to double the star. Role player's are what make Star even better. Team's don't win championships without having role players. Iverson has shown this, reggies has shown this, Ewing showed this.

If I had the choice of my opponents star player playing injured or my opponents role player playing injured, hands down I am going to choose the opponents star player because it gives me the advantage. So I put more emphasis on star players playing and playing healthy or injured. That must carry the load and hard to carry the load if you are not 100%.

I agree with you role players are important and you can't win championships without role players.
 
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