Serious topic... Death and dying

[SixFive]

It is unfortunate but our pets are treated with more compassion during the end of life decisions than our own family.

If pets are diagnosed with cancer or other fatal diseases, we let them die naturally while we love them and make them as comfortable as possible in their home. People in the same situation suffer in vain maybe a few more weeks or months away from their homes then they die. it is a bizarre thing.

Note.... I am totally against Kavorkian style euthanasia. I am ok though with making a person comfortable and letting things naturally progress.

 

[rrc]

Agree totally with SixFive on this issue

Try to access Chiago magazine online if possible..just had a great article on this subject in this months issue.

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

It is unfortunate but our pets are treated with more compassion during the end of life decisions than our own family.

And why is that?

It's not a sin.

I'll go ahead and stick my head in the sand with the rest of you guys. Religion has no influence on our laws or philosophy when it comes to this sunject. Carry on.

 

[rrc]

Www.chicagomag.com

In the search bar put Final Exit Network

Well worth the read

 

[The Boys]

In TheBoys case, it's actually encouraged.

You are completely classless, now you're wishing for my death in post #16. You've gone to far.......:nono:

 

[gardenweasel]

Otherwise, who gets to make the call? At what point do we start letting people die who could have otherwise been saved just because the treatment is going to be rough?

I think you open a whole new box of troubles when you start deciding who lives and who dies.

green box!....my mom had colon cancer and her prognosis was sketchy at best....her oncologist disagreed on the prognosis and we went ahead with chemo.....she lived another 12 years cancer free with an excellent quality of life before something entirely different killed her (sepsis)....

you don`t want government bureaucrats making your healthcare decsions...that decision has to be between your family and your doctors...

 

[saint]

Cherish your family and loved ones every day. Remember them when they were healthy and happy if they are sick. Know there wishes and honor them should you have to make a decision. Don't be bullied by MDs who are unscrupulous and greedy.

My friends son had a prolonged cough. They did more invasive testing and he had a tumor the size of a football wrapped around his entire chest wall. I think they are glad their "unscrupulous and greedy" doctor did further testing.

I do agree with your other point but to be honest it's not your family member so you need to move on with it. Have you had to make that decision for your parent? If not then you really aren't in a position to comment because you don't know what it's like. I'm not condoning it but if you've got that bitterness built up in you then it's just going to detract from your caregiving skills.

And let's be honest the MDs most times aren't ordering those tests out of greed they are doing it out of fear/protection. For the one case they don't order the bronch if the patient ends up with something sinister they are going to get their assess sued. Medicine is a result of our legal system, not greed.

 

[The Joker]

opcorn2

 

[ssd]

Saint,
I do not think Six-Five was talking about MD's being greedy during the diagnosis phase.
I took it to mean they keep people alive because of the dollars that are generated on essentially expensive and needless care on terminal patients.

Pets are treated more humanely with euthanasia.

And, I'll step into the sticky fray and back Trampled on this one.
Euthanasia in human terms is considered a sin. Honestly, when I sit back and think of Jesus and his teachings - and I by no way shape or form am an expert, but I think of this guy who taught about a loving, peaceful god.
Now, do you really think that God would rather a human being live out the remainder of its life in a miserable, painful existence or die peacefully in the care of an experienced care-giver who ended the misery with an injection?

 

[saint]

Saint,
I do not think Six-Five was talking about MD's being greedy during the diagnosis phase.
I took it to mean they keep people alive because of the dollars that are generated on essentially expensive and needless care on terminal patients.

Then how would you interpret the following:

The third example, this patient should have just said, "no doctor. I just have a cold and don't need an invasive procedure". Don't be bullied by MDs who are unscrupulous and greedy.

That is exactly what he was implying.

Hey, I've got no horse in the race. But I think it's lame to place to blame on the "greedy doctors". They practice defensive medicine and it's a direct result of our society and legal system. There are no more greedy doctors than greedy nurses, teachers, mechanics, lawyers, etc.

 

[SixFive]

That is exactly what he was implying.

Hey, I've got no horse in the race. But I think it's lame to place to blame on the "greedy doctors". They practice defensive medicine and it's a direct result of our society and legal system. There are no more greedy doctors than greedy nurses, teachers, mechanics, lawyers, etc.[/QUOTE]

To add more information, this was not a prolonged cough. Of course if a child coughs for weeks, he needs further workup. This lady had a cold that had been going on a few days. That doesn't require a bronch. More specifically, there is a neurologist and pulmonologist involved here. Each refer to each other on almost every patient. This neurologist does a lumbar puncture on nearly all of his patients in the hospital. He orders thousands of dollars worth of tests. It's not to diagnose something rare or to address a problem. It's his standard, and it's bs. He is greedy. He is unscrupulous. He is wrong. He is a clown.

My feelings about these issues absolutely do not affect my care. I'm posting this bc I do care and I feel so bad for all these poor ignorant patients who just go along with whatever the MD says. I just want all my friends here to know and be able to protect themselves.

Lastly, yes, I have been involved with the care of my grandmother before she died. She made it clear that she would never want to be on a machine. She had a huge, hemorrhagic brainstem CVA. Her EEG was "blank". She had no chance at recovery; it's doubtful she would ever wake up. She was losing blood through her digestive system bc of the ulcers her body formed in her stomach. We chose not to transfuse her. We chose to remove her life support. She lived about 24 more hours on comfort measures, and she passed away.

My great aunt was 93. Even though she had mild dementia, she lived in her house mostly independently. She had a huge fall and broke her hip. That was repaired, but then she had a huge stroke in the hospital. Again, her EEG was blank. She never woke up of course. My Uncle and cousin talked with me extensively, they knew her wishes, they chose to not provide aggressive treatment, and I was there the last hour of her life.

 

[SixFive]

This tread has really hit home with me. My cousin passed yesterday from a brain tumor, and she really suffered. Wish she was still here but I couldn't personally live that way if it was me.

Sorry about your cousin, Big Daddy. Sounds like a really hard situation.

 

[ssd]

Sorry, Saint.

I did not read thoroughly.

 

[saint]

Sixfive there are greedy types in all professions. It's not fair to peg doctors this way.

I've got literally scores of friends who are doctors and I'm sympathetic to a lot of the challenges they face on an every day basis.

 

[SixFive]

Sixfive there are greedy types in all professions. It's not fair to peg doctors this way.

I've got literally scores of friends who are doctors and I'm sympathetic to a lot of the challenges they face on an every day basis.

Dude, there are a lot of doctors I consider friends. I only meant to 'peg' these doctors. I am in no way a doctor basher.

Anyway, that's not the point of the thread.

 

[Happy Hippo]

Reminded me of a great poem... Also, check out some of Peter Singer's articles on ethics. He write about euthanasia and dying. He is a utilitarian, so he weighs the value of life vs the pain of suffering to come to a conclusion that is often heavily criticized as veering towards the selective breeding/Nazism view of life. However, I think anytime you debate life vs suffering or when a life is worth living there is a fine line. That is why it is so important for people to state their own wishes. But for some, that kind of statement is impossible (children who are suffering...) and then it becomes a bigger gray area, I think.



Mary Oliver "Of The Empire"

We will be known as a culture that feared death
and adored power, that tried to vanquish insecurity
for the few and cared little for the penury of the
many. We will be known as a culture that taught
and rewarded the amassing of things, that spoke
little if at all about the quality of life for
people (other people), for dogs, for rivers. All
the world, in our eyes, they will say, was a
commodity. And they will say that this structure
was held together politically, which it was, and
they will say also that our politics was no more
than an apparatus to accommodate the feelings of
the heart, and that the heart, in those days,
was small, and hard, and full of meanness.

 

[buddy]

Mary Oliver "Of The Empire"

We will be known as a culture that feared death
and adored power, that tried to vanquish insecurity
for the few and cared little for the penury of the
many. We will be known as a culture that taught
and rewarded the amassing of things, that spoke
little if at all about the quality of life for
people (other people), for dogs, for rivers. All
the world, in our eyes, they will say, was a
commodity. And they will say that this structure
was held together politically, which it was, and
they will say also that our politics was no more
than an apparatus to accommodate the feelings of
the heart, and that the heart, in those days,
was small, and hard, and full of meanness.

Whooaaaa !

 

[in the black]

If pets are diagnosed with cancer or other fatal diseases, we let them die naturally while we love them and make them as comfortable as possible in their home. People in the same situation suffer in vain maybe a few more weeks or months away from their homes then they die. it is a bizarre thing.

Note.... I am totally against Kavorkian style euthanasia. I am ok though with making a person comfortable and letting things naturally progress.

In 99 at the age of 52 my dad was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.Very dim outlook.My dad said no to the treatment and went home to enjoy what little he could for the time he had left.He never spent a day in a bed other than his own and died in his home where he was comfortable.

And not to make light of the situation but damn some of the meal requests I found really funny."Hey you know the bbq joint on 6th and 14th can you run by there and get me 2 large sandwiches,fries,and onion rings".Yeah OK 2 large sandwiches,etc for a person that hadn't eaten a full meal in I don't know how long.Of course no matter the request you still get whatever the hell they want.

I rambled here but I agree sometimes it's much better to just face the reality and make the best of what little time is left.For the sick person in this situation it cannot end soon enough.