Shooting at Connecticut elementary school

[godsfavoritedog]

and you think some teacher in the middle of teaching a lesson is going to whip out her pistol and shoot the attacker through his body armor before he just bursts through the door and shoots her?

please get a fucking grip. real life isnt a fucking rambo movie.

Probably not. But ... maybe? Can you at least admit it would have given them a fighting chance?

Listen man, in an ideal world, I would agree with you but the problem is we don't live in an ideal world and we never will. You're never going to get all the guns off the street. Did prohibition work for alcohol? Does it work for drugs? NO ... and it would never work for guns.

 

[airportis]

Probably not. But ... maybe? Can you at least admit it would have given them a fighting chance?

Listen man, in an ideal world, I would agree with you but the problem is we don't live in an ideal world and we never will. You're never going to get all the guns off the street. Did prohibition work for alcohol? Does it work for drugs? NO ... and it would never work for guns.

you are saying it would never work just based on other things or what you THINK. your argument is because it didnt work for X it wont work for Y.

dont you THINK it would be worth trying?

look how things have worked out so far. dont you think it would be worth at least giving it a fucking chance to stop this shit instead of just shooting the idea down before it is even able to be put into action to get a result?

 

[godsfavoritedog]

you are saying it would never work just based on other things or what you THINK. your argument is because it didnt work for X it wont work for Y.

dont you THINK it would be worth trying?

look how things have worked out so far. dont you think it would be worth at least giving it a fucking chance to stop this shit instead of just shooting the idea down before it is even able to be put into action to get a result?

I'm saying based on the fact that any time we try to ban something, we end up failing miserably. I really don't see how this would be any different.

You said in the other thread

"... if you are saying they wont work here but they clearly work in other places, what does that say to the quality of people in general?"

This is exactly the issue. It's too late for us as a society for what you're proposing to work. There would have to be a massive culture shift and you and I aren't going to see that in our lifetimes.

 

[saint]

No, you're right ... it's better your way. I'd rather have the children be sitting ducks like they were today with nobody capable of protecting them.

LMAO. Yes, let's please put loaded pistols inside every teachers desk. No way anything unintended would occur

:withstupi

 

[godsfavoritedog]

LMAO. Yes, let's please put loaded pistols inside every teachers desk. No way anything unintended would occur

:withstupi

LOL. You again. :facepalm:

I'll give you credit ... you have a unique talent for twisting statements around.

And yes, you are with stupid. 24/7 ... I'm sure it never leaves you.

 

[saint]

LOL. You again. :facepalm:

I'll give you credit ... you have a unique talent for twisting statements around.

And yes, you are with stupid. 24/7 ... I'm sure it never leaves you.

Twisting what?

Who else can protect the kids in this scenario? A principal with a gun in his office, that's not going to help. I'm sure you didn't mean arming the 5 year olds. So the only logical interpretation of your statement about leaving the kids 'sitting ducks' would involve arming teachers. Or wait...maybe we should train 5 year old 'school marshalls' like we have on the airlines Or perhaps a Billy Madison type scenario! I think the problem is trying to use logic with something illogical in the first place.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

You are a fucking tool.

edit ... not stooping to your level.

Don't sell yourself short. You are insulting the death of everyone of those kids today.

 

[godsfavoritedog]

Twisting what?

Who else can protect the kids in this scenario? A principal with a gun in his office, that's not going to help. I'm sure you didn't mean arming the 5 year olds. So the only logical interpretation of your statement would involve arming teachers. I think the problem is trying to use logic with something illogical in the first place.

I said the teachers or maintenance people should be armed. In scenarios like this, you have a teacher in a classroom with however many kids and gunshots ring out in the hallway. Would it be better to have zero chance with an unarmed teacher or a fighting chance that an armed teacher could prevent any further deaths of children? I don't know about you (or maybe I do) but if I had a kid in that classroom, I'd rather put his or her fate in the hands of the teacher than in the hands of the gunman.

These things ALWAYS happen in gun free areas. Why do you think that is? These psychos target places where they know they;re unlikely to meet any real resistance. They're fucking cowards.

 

[Chadman]

So much to say about this after today. Speaking as a teacher now, thinking of the situation and ramifications of arming teachers in the classroom, I can't imagine what would probably have already happened in my classroom. With some of the kids in my classes, with all the shit they have to deal with at "home," with me either having a gun on my person or in my desk - I can only imagine the possibilities. None of which make a damn bit of sense to me.

I certainly don't want to be the one responsible for making life and death situations on the spur of the moment with a situation I am completely unprepared mentally or physically to process or deal with in a matter of seconds. What if a kid stands up real quick just before I shoot and I kill them in a panic response to an armed maniac blasting into my room?

I understand frustration. I understand wanting to keep your guns. But please use some freaking common sense before you type.

Such an emotional day for me. Definitely makes me appreciate my students a bit more today. And thinking about how sad Christmas will be for these families and the community.

 

[saint]

I said the teachers or maintenance people should be armed. In scenarios like this, you have a teacher in a classroom with however many kids and gunshots ring out in the hallway. Would it be better to have zero chance with an unarmed teacher or a fighting chance that an armed teacher could prevent any further deaths of children? I don't know about you (or maybe I do) but if I had a kid in that classroom, I'd rather put his or her fate in the hands of the teacher than in the hands of the gunman.

These things ALWAYS happen in gun free areas. Why do you think that is? These psychos target places where they know they;re unlikely to meet any real resistance. They're fucking cowards.

Hmm...what's more likely to occur? Teacher saves the day whipping out her piece and taking the perp down.

Or....kids all over the country knowing that their teachers have a loaded gun in their desk get a hold of it and accidentally hurt someone. Thousands and thousands and thousands of loaded pistols in desks. And that's your solution? Because let's be honest, the only way it's useful is if it's chambered and ready to go.


Which scenario has the most risk involved? Your thinking is so incredibly flawed.

 

[saint]

So much to say about this after today. Speaking as a teacher now, thinking of the situation and ramifications of arming teachers in the classroom, I can't imagine what would probably have already happened in my classroom. With some of the kids in my classes, with all the shit they have to deal with at "home," with me either having a gun on my person or in my desk - I can only imagine the possibilities. None of which make a damn bit of sense to me.

I certainly don't want to be the one responsible for making life and death situations on the spur of the moment with a situation I am completely unprepared mentally or physically to process or deal with in a matter of seconds. What if a kid stands up real quick just before I shoot and I kill them in a panic response to an armed maniac blasting into my room?

I understand frustration. I understand wanting to keep your guns. But please use some freaking common sense before you type.

DING DING DING

:00011

 

[airportis]

I said the teachers or maintenance people should be armed. In scenarios like this, you have a teacher in a classroom with however many kids and gunshots ring out in the hallway. Would it be better to have zero chance with an unarmed teacher or a fighting chance that an armed teacher could prevent any further deaths of children? I don't know about you (or maybe I do) but if I had a kid in that classroom, I'd rather put his or her fate in the hands of the teacher than in the hands of the gunman.

These things ALWAYS happen in gun free areas. Why do you think that is? These psychos target places where they know they;re unlikely to meet any real resistance. They're fucking cowards.

1. you are asking teachers to now act as policemen and get in the line of fire and risk their life and run out of their class to find a gunman and shoot him down. that would clearly result in much more needed training, probably the same type of training cops and millitary get. these are TEACHERS. NOT POLICE AND NOT PEOPLE IN THE ARMY. TEACHERS. how many of them would be up for this? how many good teachers would it deter from the job? what happens when a female high school teacher is overpowered by a highschool boy and her weapon is taken from her? then what? you are seriously suggesting putting MORE weapons into schools? you are just asking for MORE incident.

2. this psycho targeted this place because his MOTHER WORKED THERE. how can you say he targeted this place because it was a gun free zone?

 

[airportis]

So much to say about this after today. Speaking as a teacher now, thinking of the situation and ramifications of arming teachers in the classroom, I can't imagine what would probably have already happened in my classroom. With some of the kids in my classes, with all the shit they have to deal with at "home," with me either having a gun on my person or in my desk - I can only imagine the possibilities. None of which make a damn bit of sense to me.

I certainly don't want to be the one responsible for making life and death situations on the spur of the moment with a situation I am completely unprepared mentally or physically to process or deal with in a matter of seconds. What if a kid stands up real quick just before I shoot and I kill them in a panic response to an armed maniac blasting into my room?

I understand frustration. I understand wanting to keep your guns. But please use some freaking common sense before you type.

Such an emotional day for me. Definitely makes me appreciate my students a bit more today. And thinking about how sad Christmas will be for these families and the community.

fucking spot on.

:0074 :0074 :0074

 

[godsfavoritedog]

So much to say about this after today. Speaking as a teacher now, thinking of the situation and ramifications of arming teachers in the classroom, I can't imagine what would probably have already happened in my classroom. With some of the kids in my classes, with all the shit they have to deal with at "home," with me either having a gun on my person or in my desk - I can only imagine the possibilities. None of which make a damn bit of sense to me.

I certainly don't want to be the one responsible for making life and death situations on the spur of the moment with a situation I am completely unprepared mentally or physically to process or deal with in a matter of seconds. What if a kid stands up real quick just before I shoot and I kill them in a panic response to an armed maniac blasting into my room?

I understand frustration. I understand wanting to keep your guns. But please use some freaking common sense before you type.

Such an emotional day for me. Definitely makes me appreciate my students a bit more today. And thinking about how sad Christmas will be for these families and the community.

Thanks for the adding your perspective and I do see your point. I appreciate your honesty in saying that you would be unprepared to handle such a situation. You're right and I'm sure 99.9% of teachers out there would say the same. Maintenance guys? Who knows. I sure don't.
I don't even think there is an answer anymore. Trying to ban guns isn't going to work. Arming everybody isn't going to work. Where the fuck does that leave us?

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

Thanks for the adding your perspective and I do see your point. I appreciate your honesty in saying that you would be unprepared to handle such a situation. You're right and I'm sure 99.9% of teachers out there would say the same. Maintenance guys? Who knows. I sure don't.
I don't even think there is an answer anymore. Trying to ban guns isn't going to work. Arming everybody isn't going to work. Where the fuck does that leave us?

You want the maintenance staff to shoot down intruders to the school? Fuck you are kidding me.

:facepalm:

 

[saint]

You want the maintenance staff to shoot down intruders to the school? Fuck you are kidding me.

:facepalm:

I think that warrants a pay raise for them from 9.50 and hour to double digits.

 

[Chadman]

Thanks for the adding your perspective and I do see your point. I appreciate your honesty in saying that you would be unprepared to handle such a situation. You're right and I'm sure 99.9% of teachers out there would say the same. Maintenance guys? Who knows. I sure don't.
I don't even think there is an answer anymore. Trying to ban guns isn't going to work. Arming everybody isn't going to work. Where the fuck does that leave us?

Don't get me wrong... I'd like to think (as a parent and someone responsible for protecting kids of all ages under my watch) I would act and "protect" my kids. I just can't run through this scenario in my head and figure out how I could make a difference. Would I want to shoot someone coming in to lay waste to faceless kids and people? Yes and no. Yes because I'd want to put and end to this demented person (who I have no idea about what they've gone through to get to this point) before they did what they were going to do. No, because I don't want to kill anyone, and I have no idea how I'd react in that kind of situation. I'm thinking I'd be pretty freaking scared, for one thing. And if that's my first reaction before kicking into protective mode - which I think I would - it would most likely be too late. I know we all want to fix this shit. How to do it, right after it happens, is where we all break down a little bit. Who the fuck can figure out the right thing to do in response to something like this? I know I can't. I'm just drinking some beer, and am being so thankful it didn't happen at my school or at the schools that my grandkids are attending.

 

[buddy]

At our local high school, they have a metal detector at the main entrance. During the time my child attended, they only had one incident of anyone bringing a weapon to school.......a parent brought a knife to supposedly attack a teacher.

Metal detectors in elementary schools? It may come to that.

 

[Sportsaholic]

At our local high school, they have a metal detector at the main entrance. During the time my child attended, they only had one incident of anyone bringing a weapon to school.......a parent brought a knife to supposedly attack a teacher.

Metal detectors in elementary schools? It may come to that.

What good would a metal detector have done today, nothing.....


So tragic, so sad...........

 

[Amethyest]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/14/us-usa-shooting-connecticut-europe-idUSBRE8BD1F020121214