Simple Question, please answer simply...

[Chadman]

I find this topic one of the biggest elephants in the room these days, all things considered. Knowing that all of us think we have heard of a base flat tax, and/or a consumption tax, would you be in favor of doing it. I don't know what the magic number would be, I will just pick one. I will also just pick a no-pay number, where some would not pay taxes, nor gain benefits from. Seems like this would spur on people to try to make more money, in many ways, from a very simplistic standpoint.

I would ask this question, considering we don't all know the ramifications of the idea, if you would simply answer yes or no, and a one or two sentence explanation why or why not, you would favor it.

Would you be in favor of paying a flat 17% tax rate on all earned income, taking no deductions, and simplifying the way we live. I would say that nobody making below $18,000 per year would pay any taxes (nor receive any benefits) and everyone else would pay a flat 17% on all income. Again, no deductions for anything else you do.

I realize this will disintegrate, and I probably didn't ask it the right way, or think of everything. But, I think it could be revealing.

I'll start. At face value, I think I would sign on for it. But, I'm sure I'm leaving off a lot...so, jump in. Please try to keep this quick and easy - it's not a test nor a committal...:shrug:

 

[gardenweasel]

does this tax render all other taxes null and void(income,property,gas,cable etc)?

 

[Old School]

fantastic idea...



spend $50,000 pay 17% tax

spend $17,000 pay 17% tax..


cash only...

credit cards 25%

 

[gardenweasel]

does this tax render all other taxes null and void(income,property,gas,cable etc)?

:shrug:

 

[The Sponge]

think 17 percent is a bit low unless u are just throwing a number out there and i also think everyone should have this bracket. It would be better set up as a sales tax where nobody could get away with it unless they are a thief. You get these girls in the strip clubs making 50 to 100 thou a year but only claiming 17 thou a year it will defeat the purpose. A sales tax on everything but food i will sign up tomorrow. 35 percent and throw away all those taxes Weasel is talking about.

 

[Old School]

ya gotta tax food..

ya want to make 3 babies ya pay taxes to feed those 3 babies..

ya wanna make 5 babies..ya pay taxes to feed those 5 babies..

ain't no free lunch..

 

[The Sponge]

ya gotta tax food..

ya want to make 3 babies ya pay taxes to feed those 3 babies..

ya wanna make 5 babies..ya pay taxes to feed those 5 babies..

ain't no free lunch..

Old School i think u would kill restaurants all over America. Unless there could be a stipulation for them and their supplies. I could see the regular joe paying a tax on food but like i said putting this on the backs of restaurants would be bruising to that industry.

 

[rusty]

No.It wont work.Im against anyform of a flat tax.
Its socialism.Not that im against socialism.

 

[gardenweasel]

No.It wont work.Im against anyform of a flat tax.
Its socialism.Not that im against socialism.

the simple answer is that as long as the democrats are in power,it ain`t happening...

one of their main constituencies is the law lobby and they`d kill their own mothers before they do the right thing and cut them off...

same for the unions,acorn,la raza(that means "the race,btw) etc. etc...

nice group of friends...

 

[saint]

Consumption tax would be great. You buy a 60k car then you pay 12 grand in tax on it.

The problem is the poor in our country who currently pay little ta would not be able to afford to pay these taxes and still buy coach purses with their kid's medicaid check.

 

[ga_ben]

I'm a big proponent of the fairtax (consumption based).
It has an embedded 23% national retail sales tax.
A prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level.
It repeals the 16th amendment.

www.fairtax.org

If I cant have that I'll take the flat tax Chadman described, providing all other taxes have gone bye bye. We can work out the details.

BTW Chad great topic.

 

[bjfinste]

a base flat tax, and/or a consumption tax, would you be in favor of doing it.

Both ideas would cripple the nation's economy far, far worse than anything we have seen in our lifetime. I realize people are, by nature, very selfish, and that's fine. But I just don't see how people can actually think this would work.

 

[Old School]

"Both ideas would cripple the nation's economy far, far worse than anything we have seen in our lifetime"


very interested in your reasons to feel this way...

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

No flat tax.



BTW.....It's everywhere but i'm not sure i've ever seen so many people blindly follow a party. Dumb ass GOP fans just throwing whatever Rush comes up with today out there. Don't you realize what kind of an idiot that makes you out to be?

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

I find this topic one of the biggest elephants in the room these days, all things considered. Knowing that all of us think we have heard of a base flat tax, and/or a consumption tax, would you be in favor of doing it. I don't know what the magic number would be, I will just pick one. I will also just pick a no-pay number, where some would not pay taxes, nor gain benefits from. Seems like this would spur on people to try to make more money, in many ways, from a very simplistic standpoint.

I would ask this question, considering we don't all know the ramifications of the idea, if you would simply answer yes or no, and a one or two sentence explanation why or why not, you would favor it.

Would you be in favor of paying a flat 17% tax rate on all earned income, taking no deductions, and simplifying the way we live. I would say that nobody making below $18,000 per year would pay any taxes (nor receive any benefits) and everyone else would pay a flat 17% on all income. Again, no deductions for anything else you do.

I realize this will disintegrate, and I probably didn't ask it the right way, or think of everything. But, I think it could be revealing.

I'll start. At face value, I think I would sign on for it. But, I'm sure I'm leaving off a lot...so, jump in. Please try to keep this quick and easy - it's not a test nor a committal...:shrug:

--explain no deductions--If your self employed business owner--sometime your profits after expenses may not be much more than 17% of your gross--which would leave you with 0 earnings.-correct?

 

[just cover]

I have a story about taxes. A buddy at work did his 25 year old son's taxes. Combined with his wife they only made $34,000ish. I think they paid in about $2000 federal and have 3 kids. They got back $7,300.:scared WHY doesn't the government say under $35,000 no taxes but also NO refunds or credits or deductions. I think most people would go for the no tax thing thinking they are getting away with something AND it would make about half of our tax system alot easier. I don't know and I am not as smart as Rush or Pelosi but why can't we come up with a simple idea like that.:shrug:

I am more in the center than anything and don't mind paying some taxes. I also think if you make more you should pay slightly higher taxes, BUT it is time to get these shit bags off the government's tit. Here in Bloomington/Normal we have recently had an influx of shitbags from Chicago when they shut down Cabrini Green. This is place is getting bad. Crime is way up and I see people driving nice cars using a link card. My wife's school has a food pantry and it is like the people think they deserve they food or gas cards. Also don't get me started on the people in line for food that are on their cell phones.

JC and my rant is over

 

[StevieD]

The whole thing comes down to deductions. The middle class is stuck paying for the deductions of the rich. Like when the guy buys a $60,000 car. Is the rich guy going to claim it is a business expense while the poor person with the Coach bag still has to pay a tax?

 

[Chadman]

Again, I probably didn't have enough meat in the question (Wease and Wayne questions, specifically), and really just wanted to get an idea of room reaction and reasons. My point is to make things streamlined, and supposedly more fair for everyone, since many people these days don't think things are fair. And I'm certainly no economist, nor even understand the ramifications of the basic question. I think I would have to go more to the thinking of the fair tax or whatever, that would include a base sales tax on everything of whatever percent - but the original theory is to make income taxes equal percentages and take care of the things we need to do. Of course, this is where the arguments come in - what we need, etc. Ideally, IMO, to make the country safe and secure, we should have a balanced budget so as not to be indebted to other countries, I guess, so I would also guess we'd have to modify the way the country does business and pays for.

And this has already turned into a politically charged topic - but I appreciate everyone and their comments.

So, to answer the two questions put to me from a completely off the cuff novice stance: we would have no other taxes, and no other deductions for anyone. Again, probably simplistic and stupid, but might be revealing. If the small business owner can't make enough profit to run the business and make enough personally off the business to live and continue to run the business without taxing exemptions and deductions, then they would have to do something else. Because if we make exceptions and deductions available, it really doesn't keep the playing field level, does it?

(Keeping in mind, I'm not saying this would work or even be a good idea. Just like the topic...)

 

[Chadman]

To further the discussion with a couple other points being made - no deductions or benefits means just that. Those not paying taxes due to being below the poverty level (whatever it is - say 17K to 20K, whatever) would not receive benefits, and lets just say that welfare would be phased out in five years. No business deductions for self-employed people, since it's an income tax, and your deductions would be simply (in some ways) added income that others couldn't take advantage of. Again - simplistic and probably short sighted, just trying to make it simple for discussion purpses.

 

[pd1]

The whole thing comes down to deductions. The middle class is stuck paying for the deductions of the rich. Like when the guy buys a $60,000 car. Is the rich guy going to claim it is a business expense while the poor person with the Coach bag still has to pay a tax?

I agree 100%. The business owner is getting their vehicles paid for, the gas that goes in those vehicles, his families cell phones, more than likely their vacations, anytime they go out for dinner, some groceries, all the booze they take home, lots of deductions the guy making $40,000 can't use. Not to mention the cash they take in that never gets declared at all.