some "how do YOU play it" poker hands .....

gman2

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had a good poker session up in detroit over the weekend. planned on sitting down and just observing and paying the nominal small/big for the first half hour or so at a 1/2 NL, just to get a read on the table. well took a flyer on Q10 in late position...flop came A-K-J in all different suits. and tripled up pretty quick because some guys were overplaying their aces.

cards ran good for awhile, but then really cooled off. and part of me wonders if it could have been a better session if id been a bit more aggressive and seen some more "turns".

which brings me to my question about how some of you guys play the following situations. obviously circumstances can alter any hand you play and i understand that. buy generally speaking, whats your philosophy on:

1) two high overcards (say KJ or KQ) when the flop comes with 3 medium under cards (say a 3-7-10 rainbow)

someone throws a regular-sized bet in.

how much are you willing to pay to try and catch a K or Q on the turn?

i tossed my KQ away after the flop a few times after being faced with calling a few small bets.

basically, this question can be any 2 overcards after the flop. but id prefer to to leave AQ or AJ out of it, because those are capable of winning a high card showdown if it came down to it. basically the K10, KJ, KQ, and QJ kinds of hands.

2) whats your opinion on the strength of A8 vs. A4? by that i mean do you think a case can be made that, while both are ace-rag, A4 might be better (and often more playable) because of the straight possibility, whereas holding A8, what are you really hoping for on the flop?

3) if your were forced to take a stand and make a move or risk being blinded out, and you HAD to go all-in, what would you rather be looking down at --- AK or 88? i know the percentages, but what would you prefer to have with your tourney life on the line?

there are some other hands that came up that will pop in my head and ill add em. but thought it would be interesting to get various responses. these are just common hands that you see all the time, but seem to separate the average from the above average players.
 

HoopsGuru

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i generally don't play KJ or KQ in nl cash games but i'm a pretty tight player. i'll play kq if suited and late position. if you're calling bets on the flop and a k comes on the turn you might be facing AK and take a beating. i would rather find other spots to get my money in. can't comment much on #2 wouldn't play either hand unless suited. i think overall the a8 is better. A4 doesn't hit enough straights to offset the kicker problem against a8. i think i'd rather go all in with the AK. could win with ace high or pair up. tough one though. good luck!
 

countinguy

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I have played all the above hands ur discussing one time or another.

Now the main concern to answer ur question, is what position u r in w/these cards and how many callers. cause really the more callers ur chances are alot slimmer. Now if ur heads up different story cause u may just be able to buy by raising. It has alot to do w/r oppenents, I can sit down at any poker table and know w/in 30 mins who is playing loose and who just plays the nuts. Do not raise to the nuts player.

Now onto ace and rags, I play alot of limit poker 10/20, 15/30 stuff, and I play ace whatever til i see a flop don't give a shit. If the ace comes on the flop i play it out, but if not straight or flush draw usually get away from it if it is being raised. An ace is always good to see a flop w/. And I don't think a4 is any different from a8 in my opinion.
 

ndnfan

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gman2 said:
1) two high overcards (say KJ or KQ) when the flop comes with 3 medium under cards (say a 3-7-10 rainbow)

someone throws a regular-sized bet in.

how much are you willing to pay to try and catch a K or Q on the turn?

.


Of course I'm talking in terms of a No-Limit game, but If you're playing on say a full table NL game, there's NOT A CHANCE I would call a bet after a flop such as that with say KJ or KQ. Even if you do catch a K or Q that could just get you in more trouble with the hand. You could be outkicked or the bettor could already have a set?? If you're playing shorthanded there might be sometimes I'll depending on the players and also your position on the table, but overall I think your foolish to be chasing an over card just for one pair.
 

BleedDodgerBlue

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ndnfan said:
Of course I'm talking in terms of a No-Limit game, but If you're playing on say a full table NL game, there's NOT A CHANCE I would call a bet after a flop such as that with say KJ or KQ. Even if you do catch a K or Q that could just get you in more trouble with the hand. You could be outkicked or the bettor could already have a set?? If you're playing shorthanded there might be sometimes I'll depending on the players and also your position on the table, but overall I think your foolish to be chasing an over card just for one pair.

ditto what he said. no chance ever I'm calling overcards in n/l. i'm most likely not even seeing a flop with them though so i doubt i'd be in that position unless i open raised in the hijack or cutoff.

posted by counting guy
Now onto ace and rags, I play alot of limit poker 10/20, 15/30 stuff, and I play ace whatever til i see a flop don't give a shit. If the ace comes on the flop i play it out, but if not straight or flush draw usually get away from it if it is being raised. An ace is always good to see a flop w/. And I don't think a4 is any different from a8 in my opinion.

really? that surprises me a great deal. I wouldn't have figured you for that.

2. A8 vs. A4 is a meaningless debate. don't waste your time struggling for it. Unless its suited and you can get in really cheap with multiple callers before you don't even bother seeing the flop. They are both really bad hands.

3. If you were forced to make a stand it really doesn't matter. You don't get to pick and choose you play the one you get. Personally you're gonna be in a coinflip situation anyway with 88 90 percent of the time. I'd rather have AK because most of the time a larger stack would call with A x or two paint and you are in a better position with AK over them than with 88. Again it doesn't matter. Play either if you are forced to make a stand in a tourney.


gl
 

Agent 0659

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So hey Countin you have played with me several times, loose or tight? :sadwave:

two high overcards (say KJ or KQ) when the flop comes with 3 medium under cards (say a 3-7-10 rainbow)

someone throws a regular-sized bet in.

how much are you willing to pay to try and catch a K or Q on the turn?



Answer- NONE, unless Im at least 90% sure the other guy has chit like 9-10 or 88 and will call a large bet if I hit. That really is the key, its not a bad call on any draw if you can get really good implied odds like someones whole stack :) but how much can he really call if he doesnt have chit?

2) whats your opinion on the strength of A8 vs. A4? by that i mean do you think a case can be made that, while both are ace-rag, A4 might be better (and often more playable) because of the straight possibility, whereas holding A8, what are you really hoping for on the flop?

A8 and A4 are almost virtually a split pot, but I would rather have A4 because of the wheel possibility but you wont find me in too many pots with either hand.

3) if your were forced to take a stand and make a move or risk being blinded out, and you HAD to go all-in, what would you rather be looking down at --- AK or 88? i know the percentages, but what would you prefer to have with your tourney life on the line?

Heads up I will take the 88, if I get 2 or 3 callers I would rather have AK.
 

countinguy

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Agent

Ur loosier during rebuys and usually play pretty tight after rebuys, unless someone gets in ur head. LOL!:)


Also BDB,

U are telling me if u can see a cheap flop with ace rags u fold it. No way for me especially in high dollar limit, unless a straight or flush hits the board. I don't chase to the river and if the ace don't usually pair up on the flop i get away from it unless i know i playing against a bullchitter.
 

Agent 0659

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countinguy said:
Hey Agent, watch out for those K5 players tonite!! LOL!:)

Ha no doubt!! :mj14:

They might lock me up if they had a hole card cam on me :mj07: It would set Hold Em back 50 years at least :mj07:
 

SixFive

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gman, playing that 1/2 is such a different game imho. I like to see a lot more flops playing 1/2 than in other games or NL. If I get dealt 6 5 suited, I'm seeing the flop, maybe even 8 10 suited. For that same reason (play is looser), I'm certainly not calling after the flop with overcards if the board is rags. You know somebody at the table hit something, right? I don't like playing a rag unless it's suited, and then, only if I'm in position. Otherwise, whatever level I'm playing, I fold it.

In NL tournies, I think position is one of the most important things. I don't like playing anything but quality hands (small pairs if I can limp in without getting raised) in early position.

I'd also rather have AK than 88 when going all in.
 

BleedDodgerBlue

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countinguy said:
Agent


Also BDB,

U are telling me if u can see a cheap flop with ace rags u fold it. No way for me especially in high dollar limit, unless a straight or flush hits the board. I don't chase to the river and if the ace don't usually pair up on the flop i get away from it unless i know i playing against a bullchitter.


that's exactly what i'm telling you. I mean what do you really want to make with A x. If you are hoping to make two pair you might as well play any two cards. What do you do if an A flops. You are usually dominated.

Everyone plays different. No knock on you. Whatever works. I just wouldn't want A x on a flop of A 7 9 or something thats just me. Also depends on your definition of high dollar limit. 40/80 and above your reasoning is a little more sound as pots are usually between 3 people at most, whereas 20/40 and below pots average a lot more players to the flop. A x is much better shorthanded than a full ring 20/40 or below.

gl
 

countinguy

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I know what ur saying but if u only got 2 callers and that is what i am talking about no a family pot.

U can use ur own experinece to tell if they have an ace or not online or live it doesn't matter, u can tell. That's is all i am getting at like u said u everybody plays their own way. Any cheap ace is ok w/me but to each his own. My theory works a hell of a lot better live than online. But i play w/some nuts also look at this agent guy.
 
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