Someone lied. Iraq is safer?

[djv]

AR182 so let me get this right. A guy that will send our troops off to die. But found away to duck nam. He knows how to handle terroest. I can do that. All I need is a good army and some good generals. And ofcourse a few guts to have not been afraid to go myself. You see there is a reason AR over 70% of vets don't think war is such a good deal. They will go but just asked to be told the truth. And like a leader that knows what there going thru. Talk is cheap.
The mayor of NYC on 9/11 was the real hero of 9/11 not Bush.

 

[StevieD]

I don't see what Bush did that was so heroic. He went after the Taliban as anyone would. After that he went after Iraq for dubious reasons. Where does the great job come in? In fact after 911 he had the world behind him. He lost a lot of the world the way he handled Iraq.

 

[pirate fan]

I sometimes worry that the Dems are too worried about doing what is right from a human standpoint. Carter allowed Pol Pot to kill an amazing amount of people because he did not want to stand up to the atrocities going on in Cambodia. Clinton order peacekeeping troops out of Rwanda and allowed close to 1 million people to be hacked to death in 100 days. He said he didn't know about the situation but has since been proven to have lied about that too. I directly blame him with the loss of all those lives which could have easily been stopped. Of coarse this all 20-20 now but it seems in some of the biggest modern day holocosts, the US has a responsibility to help those who cannot help themselves, like the Iraqi people.

 

[ctownguy]

Well stated pirate:iagree:

 

[Marco]

With all the dictators, religious factions, terrorists, drug kingpins, and gunrunners on this planet......let's face it, if you're in the peacekeeping business you have a fulltime job......

At any given time on this planet atrocities are being committed, people are being blown up, gassed, or starved.........

There are over 190 countries on this planet, why is it that the United States has to provide the impetus to counteract the actions and behaviors that most would find appalling?

Terrorism and others acts like these are global issues, effecting lives all over the world.......yet when $hit goes down, send in the U.S. Marines.......seems like we're the first in and the last out when it comes to the mechanics of dealing with these problems.....

Bush wanted 80 some billion to deal with the problems over in Iraq.......let the United Nations deal with and bear some of the monetary debt that these issues create......

Let the rest of the countries on this planet have a staggering national debt also......

Tired of being the big brother, the police force, and the military force of the planet.....it's time to share the load with the rest of the globe.....

Maybe its a good thing we haven't found life on other planets, damn well know if we did we'd have to send the military there, too....

About the Clinton thing.......my own opinion is that most politicians are about as crooked as a barrel of snakes.......most of you would probably agree that in the case of Clinton, the barrel was definitely full.......

 

[pirate fan]

Marco, I agree with a lot of what you say. It shouldn't have to be the US all the time. The UN should step up more and defend those who are innocent or powerless but for some reason don't seem to. They talk a lot but do very little. I don't like the fact it is always the US marine that has to go first risking their life for some part of the world that may have no reason to be there. I look at it though as a people thing. Whether black, white, yellow, or jewish, christian, muslim, whatever, we are all people with moms and dads and kids andso on. The US has to go because we have been blessed with the ability and power to defend those who have no voice or are powerless to defend themselves. With all the problems we may have in this country, it is still the best place to live in the world. We are so lucky to be here and because some other person is not does not mean we should turn our backs on them. With all the blessings we have in our lives I believe comes some responsibility to try and help others. Unfortunately, that just sucks and will always be a mess where ever we go 99% of the time.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

DJV:
"A guy that will send our troops off to die. But found away to duck nam. He knows how to handle terroest. I can do that. All I need is a good army and some good generals. And ofcourse a few guts to have not been afraid to go myself. You see there is a reason AR over 70% of vets don't think war is such a good deal."

You left yourself wide open on this one my friend.

Tell me what leader anywhere ---in any period of time that has sent troops into any region without the presumption of deaths occurring. Do you by any realm of the imagination understant why and what the military is for??????

Joining the NG could be considered ducking nam to some as well as marriage and educational deferments--but I would call the the smart way of avoiding conflict and the cowards way of heading north or your consciensous objector status Micheal Moore filed and then had the nerve to call Bush a coward and deserter.

---and I ADAMANTLY challege you to show any factual evidence that just 40% (not 70%)of Vets do not back war.
While this is impossible to prove, my reason for thinking the opposite is the troops that are sitting in the middle of these ongoings reception for Bush on visits. You can not fake the look in their eyes and spontaneous reactions--if you think so, take a close look at troops that greeted Hiliary and the diff is quite obvious---or take a look of the ones that greeted Slick @ the Wall when they dropped their pants and showed him their backside.
Slick cut his project 40 minute speech to bout 10 minutes and cut a rut!!!!
----and if you think the vets will back Kerry you are sadly mistaken. With his post war ties to organizations that Fonda fratinized with--I don't think so.

 

[djv]

Kerry was right about nam in the end. And I dont believe he had anything to do with Jane. I know some folks have doctored up some pitcure that show her in the same crowd. But I can say for myself it was all about country and stopping the commies. I believed all that to. Then about the same time Kerry did. Around 1969/70 I got smart. Nam was a big mistake. Cost us to many lifes. The poll on vets. Came from Cspan and MSNBC last week. I will admitt I have no idea if they do have the vets measured right on this. But 70% would not surprise me. I did not even pay much attention to it because it made sence to me.
I'll go back to my orginal point. Iraq is a chit hole. Killing is on going every day. So I just was pointing out they should stop trying to make us believe its safer. A few have said so few GI's deaths. If it's your daughter of son. The number has diffrant meaning.

 

[ctownguy]

djv, YOU ARE TRULY A PATHETIC PERSON, I PITY YOUR FAMILY IF YOU ARE LIKE THIS IN THE REAL WORLD.

WHAT A;142loser: ;142loser: ;142loser:

 

[djv]

CTG I am sorry I pointed out the truth. And yes if you had ever served you would not like war to much. And for dam sure if you lost a daughter or a son. You would not run around with your short dick in the air about how great war is and your so happy your son died.

 

[ctownguy]

Who in the hell said war is great you dumb asshole, sometimes it is a necessity, like now.

Where do you get off saying I think war is great you fu**, as I have lost a family member in the nam war you dick, don't ever talk to me about liking war you prick.

 

[djv]

Thankyou for calling me a prick. Next to a mans brain it's the best part of our body. I will take that with honor. And I did find out what I need to know about you. Your a follower not a leader. Someone tells you something is ok you just agree. And yes you do talk about how the war with Iraq was just fine. Necessary you say. Why? Who told you that. Did you really fall for that they have nuke BS. You want to worry. Worry about a real foe called NK.

 

[ctownguy]

djv, you are a true ahole and you obviously have no life and what life you do have is spent whinning and crying about everything.

I'll have to admit I let your ignorant posts get under my skin, but after stepping back and really evaluating your obsurdness I now realize you are just an ignorant unhappy person and no one will every be able to help you.

Yea and I did see in a post to kosar, where you tried to pass all your crap posts off as an instigator wanting to get people outraged, now that is real productive, another sign of your ignorance. With that post you proved what a joke you and your opinions are, try getting a life.

 

[djv]

Hey I seen some of those post where people make light about those boys dieing in Iraq. What was it you and some of your friends said. Hey just 300 a year so far. More get killed on our highways each year. Wash DC has more die each year in murders. You bet those are words spoken right here for all those sticking up for us taking the load on in the Iraq war. Sorry if you had a family memeber die in nam. But because you were not born til after nam was over. You of course never met the person. How do you know he wanted to be there. Maybe he wanted to stay home. And he was not wrong if that was true. We just took 8 years to understand that about nam. We can only hope we have more brains this time with Iraq. War is not a fun game as some seem to think.
And yes you are correct I see right through some of that fake outrage we have here.

 

[ferdville]

DJV - never saw a response to Intense Operator that took the words right out of my mouth. You seem to be very knowledgable about Viet Nam. As was said, we weren't even attacked by the enemy yet lost 58,000 men in the war. Not to make light of the boys killed in Iraq, God bless them. But how do you compare the loss of life in Viet Nam to the loss of life in Iraq? Or the approximate 56,000 lost in Korea? No one in his/her right mind wants any of our men killed in any war. But that is what happens in a war. So why do those numbers in Iraq, a mere pittance compared to Viet Nam, Korea, WWI, WWII, offend you so much more than the soldiers we have lost in previous encounters?

Let me make it clear that I am not a fan of Bush - was, but no more. His pandering to Mexico makes me puke and his allegiance to the religious right is becoming downright dangerous.

But it will be hard for me to vote for Kerry also. Don't think I can vote for the most liberal man in Congress. And as Chanman said, a vote for Nader is a wasted vote. McClintock was my man in California,too. But I really haven't heard any of the Dems come out with anything specific about what they would do about terrorism. There have been criticisms (many deserved, especially those that seem to violate simple unalienable rights), but I haven't heard a clear plan from the Dems about what they plan to do. I will predict that this will be one of the dirtiest campaigns in some time.

 

[djv]

ferdville I feal for everyone who must go and die. We almost ruin the country when we killed off over 600000 in the civil war. And that was dumb as hell to say the least. I mean it was 95% over slavery. Dam could you see another one over gay marrages. Never say no we do dumb thing sometimes.
ferdville we can only hope over the next 8/9 long months we hear something worth listening to from our Mr Bush/Kerry. Maybe they will even talk about the real issues. And maybe they both can put the flag away for a while. We need to hear some thing NEW just once. Whats going on right now is not working to good. As one guy said the other day. Nothing much has changed in 13 years. Bush is president. Were just ending a battle wirh Iraq. We hope ending. And tons of folks are looking for jobs that are not there.

 

[ctownguy]

djv, you are an idiot. I'm 57 years old and I've got 2 grown married daughters and if you count the friends I lost over there it adds up to more than you'll ever know. I love how aholes like you think they know everything and they don't know their own ass from a hole in the ground.

I've probably done and experienced more in my life than you can even whine or dream about. For someone with so many useless posts, I would think as intelligent as you keep telling everyone you are you would have figured out how to look at the SB pictures from 2yrs ago and seen how old I am, you jerk.

And what's with when we played fletch, when did you play in the bigs, LMAO on that one. :thefinger :thefinger :gf: :gf: :fingerc:

 

[djv]

You sure are a screamer. Dam have a Heart Attack. And I almost believe your 57 years old. I look at those great ideas you post and I would say 17.

 

[ctownguy]

I just discovered why you post so many useless and ignorant crap, your the classic loser with no life and this is the only place you can get any attention.

You've evidently never accomplished anything and your posts prove it, contradictions, lies, and mostly just pure bu**sh**.

Oh well, maybe the nurses at the home will give you a little more much needed attention, you certainly need it.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

DJV Let me give you 2 sides of veterens on Kerry and the truth as always is probably somewhere in the middle.

NOTE on the veterans against, the issues Kerrys attorneys have threatened them with lawsuit if they did not omit.


Veterans Against
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/page2.html

Veterans For
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/page2.html

Now in weighing both sides one who has been there can sort of sift thru issues.

What strikes me odd is you have someone who volunteers for Vietnam "navy mind you" and after 3 months in country assembles 3 wounds which he never spends a day in hospital from what I can see and immediately asked to be sent home and discharged. Most of the wounds are reported shrapnel which can be serious or a scratch by scrapnel or "other" means. Look at his left arm in photo's after war and tell me what you see.
3 purple hearts and none requiring surgery from what I can see.
Now if you get a chance buy the book he wrote shortly after his return. The originals had copy cover digustingly showing Iwagima(spl) soilders flying flag upside down.