sooner or later

DOGS THAT BARK

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My point Chad is all in group evidently had one thing in common--visiting the 3 countries on trip--
(all connected to war)why didn't Obama think it important as others did?

Ditto Bryanz--feel same way
Politics and religion are volitile subjects :)
 

THE KOD

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c'mon KOD, you gotta be kidding me here. The prince is in a front line unit, and now the enemy knows what unit he is in... You don't think they will redirect every last scrap of firepower they have into that unit to try and take down the next King?

They'd throw everything, including the kitchen sink, at that unit, and specifically at that unit.

That entire unit would be wiped out in under 2 weeks. Or they could put another few units with them to try to protect themselves, which is a problem due to the limited manpower in the area and opens up other areas for the bad guys.

Use your head dude. You are way smarter than that.
.........................................................

Listen Son, quit trying to defend the next King lineage. You know Harry cut and ran.

I think your giving the Afghan freedom fighters alot more credit than they deserve.

I am sure Daddy made a few phone calls to expedite things.
 

Chadman

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Wayne, I have no idea if all of the members of the contingent were supposed to follow the same itinerary - do you? Why would it be a stretch to think congress would want someone as well spoken as Obama to head to other countries in the middle east, and especially to Israel at such an important time for that country? Sounds like to me his trip was planned in advance, and it may not have even been his planning. I doubt he could have that many stops and meetings planned had he just up and decided to split from the group at the last minute.

Of course you think the worst, and want to paint it as such, some kind of weakness or judgment failure. I would bet this is pretty much a normal thing, and done by many in the legislature on trips like this.

Maybe he actually did some good for our country, compared to any touring Bush would have done...if he had to speak to anyone, that is.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Is an interesting subject to me Chad--if you find out more on it let me know.
Both sources I had were conservative sources and never put it up (was somewhat skeptical) here until most was confirmed on Obama/s website.

Quite unusual for anyone to break away from other delegates on planned fact finding mission--and ordeal has been kept under wraps for most part--which adds to intrigue.
 

Chadman

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I don't personally think it's an issue - at least not to me - so I doubt I'll look deeper into it. Again, you use the term "break away", and common sense (at least my common sense) would tell me that considering the magnitude of meetings he was engaging in after his two day tour of Iraq that his itinerary was well planned and done with benefit to this country.

I find your terminology to be one-sided and political, and that's not unusual, so what's the point of deeper looking at something you have your mind made up on?

Kept under wraps? By whom? For what reason? He had a planned itinerary to the middle east (again, how could it not be planned in advance?), he visited one our greatest allies (our only real ally in the middle east, right?) at a time of deep concern for that country - and ours, and nothing really looks out of place nor suspicious to anyone not trying to make political hay out of it. So, what's to keep secret? Why is it an issue now? Because you are trying to make it one - about all I can see here. :shrug:
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Seems to me one of most pressing issues is war--why would a would be pres--on his only visit there arrive one day and cut out the next--then come back and continue to wave the white flag--when he's reluctant to even care whats going on.

Makes a big diff to me--anyone calling for retreat damn well ought to want to know what the hell is going on--maybe he wouldn't look so foolish when he says surge won't/didn't work--and his questioning of Petraus in 07 shows exactly how clueless he was/is on whats going on.
--but he did gain monetary and political support from his base at move.on on rejecting to condem their ad but was not big hit with the troops.
 

Chadman

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The fact that this war is/was elective all along, and continues to be a drain on this country, the military, the taxpayer, the soldiers, the families, et al, I think Obama has a sensible outlook on things, frankly. Why would he spend extra time in a country, speaking to mouthpieces for this administration, who are going to paint the best possible picture - no matter what - to reflect the views of this administration? Why would Obama expect to hear anything out of Petraeus (until he gets out of active duty, that is, and we probably learn a different picture, like most of the former commanders on the ground) other than the party line? Petraeus, and other leaders on the ground are working directly for the President - the commander in chief of the forces...what would ANYONE expect to hear other than what they are told to say?

Wayne, you allow that the decision to attack Iraq and occupy it is an arguable one. You yourself can allow that there are other viewpoints on that. Of course there has to be other allowable viewpoints on how best to proceed from here. We hear every day, different comments from the field, successes, the surge is/has worked, the Iraqi forces are taking a more active role, the administration and leaders are maintaining immediate step up in those people taking over, etc. So, there can be other viewpoints - based on those talking points - that have value. It certainly doesn't have to be labeled a loss, a retreat, cutting and running, ANYTHING like that, unless you want to admit a loser attitude and project that to the world. It's an attitude of fearmongering, and obliviousness to what is going on in the world and especially at home.

The U.S. currently has the largest multi-million/billion dollar embassy in the world there in Iraq, and always will. We have established the second largest airfield/airbase in the entire world, for our troops and personnel there. We have set up shop in Iraq to establish and maintain a permanent place and leadership/defense role in that country that anyone in their right mind will know that we will actively protect and maintain while life as we know it exists. And if anything ever happened to any of those things, we all know what this country would do in response. We could mobilize and crush any scattered threats within a matter of hours - and most likely with the troops and firepower that will certainly remain long after whatever this thing is we are engaged in. But if not, we all know what our military can accomplish in a day or two.

It remains the talking points and the attitude of conservatives and some republicans (a reduced number, of course, than before) that we only stand to lose and retreat if we take sensible action to reduce numbers in Iraq - which is what the plan was supposed to be all along, and a lot sooner than this. Due to this administration and what it has established in Iraq, we will always have to take care of our interests there, and we of course will. No matter who is in charge. We will never withdraw from that country, we will never lose that country to another country (unless we see a rise in power from other superpowers and another world war scenario), and we simply won't lose that fight. To explain it otherwise, would be bad communicating, political posturing, and commentary of fear/loathing.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Chad I respect your opinion on going to war in 1st place
--but fact is we did--and you don't make the sacrifices we made to finally be at stage we are at now only to have someone try to wave a white flag.

UBL made 2 statements when declaring Iraq would be center of war on terror--that we didn't have stomach for it--and we would be run out.

So far he has been extremely wrong on both counts--and is losing support world wide.

--but that could all change over night on all counts.
Who will bring him hope ;)
 
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