Sorry, it's story time about the Belmont

Jimboski

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It's getting a little boring - watching this Chrome horse continually toying around with all the 3 year olds this year. The few replays I watched of pre- Triple Crown races that this horse ran in TOGETHER with the first two T.C. jewels ALL LOOK LIKE REPLAYS OF THE SAME DANG RACE.

And now we're gonna bet against him in the Belmont? You can bet that I will be doing just that; just like I did vs. Secretariat in the Belmont and then watched that freight train, LIVE, win the Belmont by 31 one NOT so stinkin lengths. :(

Still, the best advice I'd give any rookie hoss player is to play against the Belmont "sure thing" EVERY year. I believe the trend we've been seeing (knocking off the BIG fav. in the Belmont) will continue as long as there is a Belmont Stakes. I liken it to basebawl futures that are available before the BB season starts.. you know, just bet the CUBS win UNDER x no. of games for the new seson. The Belmont system is even better than the basebawl one. I really think that, over the long run that, with a little bit of luck, you may not be able to say that you beat the horse racing game when you're done with it.... but U DID beat one race over the long run... the Belmont. Without a doubt, I can say that on account of that 2002 bonanza I caught, but I think even without that one, I believe I'll still be able to make that statement when I'm done with hosses.

The last jewel is 3 weeks away and who knows what the field will look like after possible injuries, workouts, late entries etc. Here's some things that I'll be looking for.. . ...

How about Chrome drawing a way outside post for a change? Won't matter if he scared them all away and we're looking at a small field size but IT WILL if that ain't the case.

I hear that there was an excellent effort by a N.Y. hoss in the Peter Pan and I gotta look into that. That angle got me the 1982 wiener cause I was at the track when Conquistador Cielo glided over the slop in the Peter Pan (whatever race it was, it was the race he ran 3 or 4 weeks before the Belmont that made the owners decide to enter him in the Belmont). That race that CC ran in the slop was the best effort I ever saw from ANY horse on a very sloppy race track. I was right on the fence, watching that monster just fly under the finish line as if he was running on a dry, rubber wace twack. Sure enough, it was raining on Belmont Stakes day.. and I made a beeline to OTB that Sat. morning to git me some of that CC hoss. :)

Most players logically look for an "S" type hoss for the Belmont. "S" is for Stalker (starts out last and zooms to first down the homestretch). I prefer a "P" for PRESSER for the Belmont. That's a horse that lays close to the pace upfront during most of the race and has enough to put all of them away down the stretch. The pick doesn't necessarily have to be a "P" type but it helps a lot if he is methinks.

Breeding lines are important too for the Belmont. Look for stamina and average winning races distance in the sires. No flashy speedsters... very good "grinders" and "plodders" (LOL) are the ones I want to see.

IF Chrome draws a post somewhere say between post 2 and 6 or 7 with no more that two speedsters inside of him - I think his chance of winning the Belmont is somewhere between certainty and definitely. :(

Now, with Chrome drawing an outside post and at least 2 speedsters just to his inside or, at least, not too far from him in a decent size field? That situation just might continue the trend of knocking off the "sure thang" going this year.

I walked over that track a couple of times and admittedly that was more than 15 yrs. ago and things may have changed. But on a sunny, dry day that dang track felt like quick sand. My feet dug in at least 4 inches into that track on every step.

Bottom line is that thirty-three horses have been eligible to win the Triple Crown and only 11 have succeeded

Just sharing some thougths from plenty of experience with the Belmont.
 

Kelso

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Conquistador Cielo --magnificent

Conquistador Cielo --magnificent

Conquistador Cielo actually it was The Metropoiltan Mile with older horses that was his prep for The Belmont,

He ran The Met Mile 5 days before The Belmont Stakes on Memorial Day. And he crushed the field and fractured the teletimer in an on fire 1:33 Flat Mile. 1982

Five days later after The Met Mile he buried "GATO DEL SOL " Derby and Preakness winner in the Belmont.1982

And a couple of us had him in The Pub. Nice price too !

ODDLY enough this year The Met Mile is being run on Belmont Day.

Well good luck and let's keep a looking for the sudden in shape horse to invade the Belmont.
 

Kelso

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COASTAL

COASTAL

Ya might be thinking of the horse COASTAL in 1979
He won the Peter Pan in May 1:47 1 1/8 miles.

He steped into The Belmont and Bushwhacked The Derby and Preakness winner SPECTACULAR BID.

I remeber this too because i had COASTAL in a POOL in a BAR.
 

Kelso

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REMEMBER BIRDSTONE

REMEMBER BIRDSTONE

Birdstone was a horse, He Ran down Smarty Jones in the stretch.

I had went to vegas and was going to bet Birdstone in the Kentucky Derby futures...but his odds was only 12-1.......so i balked...too low....

Birdstone incurred an illness just before the Derby and he lost obviously to Smarty Jones.

The Trainer took him up to Saratoga Springs for rest and recovery and skipped the Preakness.

The rest is history when he returned to the Belmont Stakes and paid telphone numbers.


I agree with your theory. History shows that you must bet against the Belmont " sure thing " every year, History upholds this theory.
Although , this horse is as close as it gets to Secretariat or Seattle Slew...but this "is " horseracing.


I predict if the don't retire this horse, he will also win big on the grass.
 

Jimboski

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WOW :)

WOW :)

GREAT to hear from a couple of players that know plenty about the history of this sport. GREAT STUFF.

You know, in the back of my head, I kept thinking that Conquestidor's race was really only a few days before the Belmont but then I thought that just couldn't be the case (running so soon in the Belmont Stakes). I remember telling a buddy of mine after I nailed CC in the Belmont,"You know, I saw that one just the other day at the track and MAN, can he EVER handle an off track". I've made moola on his babies on off tracks since then also.

Kelso, time will tell if Chrome is close to a Secretariat or Slew... I believe he's doing the same things Sec. and Slew did, BUT IMO, the reason is the competition he's facing. Secretariat beat plenty of VERY tough customers in his time and I don't see that being the case with Chrome. I've always said that ya just gotta feel for a horse named Sham who, I think, woulda been a Champion of Champions if he didn't have the tough luck of being born the same year as Secretariat. He had the ba....er, GUTS to fight it out with Sec. several times and after giving it his all in the Belmont vs. the champ, offering a SERIOUS challenge through most of the backstretch... well, he paid the price for that GREAT effort. Similar situation with Alydar vs. Affirmed, that Alydar was one great looking colt. I went kinda heavy on him in that most exciting race when the two hit the line together. What a beautiful stride on that great looking colt. I bet that race more as a fan than a handicapper. Sure woulda made my day if Velasquez coulda pulled that race out, tellya - I watched him in the prerace and he REALLY wanted a piece of Affirmed that day. That was the most exciting race I ever saw, live, and I've seen plenty. Sure, I've seen plenty of claiming races that ran just like that one, but you just don't remember those.

On to the 2014 edition, Good luck Coastal, Kelso.
 

Kelso

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Secretariant's Belmont Stakes is still a world record 2:24 and now stands 41 years later.


Things like this still standing 41 years later sort of puts Secretariat at # 1.
# 2 could be Seattle Slew. # 3 could be Sunday Silence, #4 could be Affirmed, # 5 could be Majestic Prince.....

it's all beauty in the eye of the beholder... sort of like rating all time boxers...

You might come up with another horse, and i'd probably say " oh yeah, i forgot about him. "

Majestic Prince was injured for the Belmont Stakes but ran anyway and got beat by Arts and Letters.


Does anybody Remember The great Forego ? Forego actually ran 4th to Secretariat in The Kentucky Derby.

If California Chrome wins The Belmont, he will join exclusive company and it will be no fluke.
 

Morris

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Above the Clouds....
Secretariant's Belmont Stakes is still a world record 2:24 and now stands 41 years later.


Things like this still standing 41 years later sort of puts Secretariat at # 1.
# 2 could be Seattle Slew. # 3 could be Sunday Silence, #4 could be Affirmed, # 5 could be Majestic Prince.....

it's all beauty in the eye of the beholder... sort of like rating all time boxers...

You might come up with another horse, and i'd probably say " oh yeah, i forgot about him. "

Majestic Prince was injured for the Belmont Stakes but ran anyway and got beat by Arts and Letters.


Does anybody Remember The great Forego ? Forego actually ran 4th to Secretariat in The Kentucky Derby.

If California Chrome wins The Belmont, he will join exclusive company and it will be no fluke.

I agree with Secretariat as being #1 hands down but I would put Affirmed ahead of Sunday Silence and maybe even Slew.

Affirmed battled Alydar nose to nose and came out ahead, one of the best IMO.

I was at Saratoga when Onion beat Sec, when affirmed ran here as a 2 yo and have a pic of Slew walking between the stables. Great memories as I was at the track just about every day back then
 

Jimboski

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Reply

Reply

Secretariant's Belmont Stakes is still a world record 2:24 and now stands 41 years later.
.
.
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Things like this still standing 41 years later sort of puts Secretariat at # 1.
# 2 could be Seattle Slew. # 3 could be Sunday Silence, #4 could be Affirmed, # 5 could be Majestic Prince.....


Does anybody Remember The great Forego ? Forego actually ran 4th to Secretariat in The Kentucky Derby.

.

Forego blossomed late in his racing career and whenever I told somebody that he finished up the track vs. Secretariat in the Derby - them didn't believe me. :argue:
He was some kind of closer alright. Ah, finally a chance to show a video I found awhile back... you wanna see a closer? Here ya go...

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/FT_YxcoDhtY?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Kelso, the era of hossracing that you are into is EXACTLY the time frame that I thoroughly enjoyed BY FAR the most of any interests I had ever. Well, disregarding "chicks". :mj7

Whatever that era may have costed me, I'd do it all over again and again. I go by how they looked when they competed more than what they actually accomplished and my ALL TIME favorite is a shocker for most most racing aficionados (something like that?). That horse was a racing machine and kept a consistant, very determined looking stride from start to finish in EVERY race I ever saw him run.. ALL business, all the way. Kinda small and built like Atlas, trained by one of my alll time favorite horseman,Allen Jerkens.

Duck Dance was bred in Florida by Hobeau Farm, and he won some important stakes races: The Tobboggan Handicap, the Vosburgh Handicap, and the Paumonok Handicap. Those are important sprint races run at the New York race tracks. So given that he was a top sprinter, it isn't too surprising that Duck Dance would end up siring racing Quarter Horses.

If you see his lifetime record.. He only raced 13 times and ran exactly the same way in every one of them - 11 wins, 1 second and the stinker.There's one race, the STINKER, that sticks out and he finished in something like LAST place.. turns out it was the only route race he ever ran and I think that makes Duck even more impressive cause he gave it his all right from the get go and ran the last 50 yds. in his races just like he started them... you could play a steady, consistant drum beat ♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ the way he raced and I luved every beat of it esp. when I had three figures on him to win (one of the very few horse that I ever went WAY overboard on).. There used to be a stakes race in N.Y. named after him.

Last time I saw him in the entry box I couldn't make it to the track but did check out the resutlts the next day to see how much he won by. He was scratched. Turns out that this racing machine suffered severe arthritis in every race he ran and just could not continue to race. Despite his very impressive record, he rarely went off at odds on (less than 1 to 1).

NICE to see you got Majetic Prince in your top 5; geesh, it's so hard to come with a top 5.. maybe Ruffian should be in it. I'll start a turf horses top 5 with Fort Marcy tied with another one that I LUVED and cannot come up with it's name right nowl.. dang it. Marcy was the only other horse that I can remember putting a C-note on to win on and he got beat by a world record (set at that time) by a hoss named DRUM something I believe. :( "Top?") or Bold something?.

I could continue this thread forever with ya, Kelso.. so I better stop.

GOOD LUCK in the BIG race.
 

Kelso

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Alleged makes a nice grass horse...sired by Hoist The Flag..wow

I saw Dahlia win The Man o War on the grass

Everybody forgets secretariat lost The Wood Memorial to his Stable Mate Angle Light.

Did Lucien Lauren step in Horse sheit or what with getting Riva Ridge followed by Secretariat?!

GOLDIKOVA........wow ....3 breeders cups ...European Horse of The Year
 
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