sports illustrated opens the racism jar, what exactly constitutes racism??

[shamrock]

If you haven't seen it yet, sports Illustrated has Donovan McNabb on the cover and the title making reference to Rush Limbaugh and his remarks earlier this season about McNabb being "over rated".

Sees this is very sensitive area, after all it got Limbaugh fired. Personally I don't like Rush at all, don't follow his thinking, and don't even listen to his show. I do however agree that McNabb is somewhat over rated. In the same thread in the football column I marveled at the play of McNair this season, I believe he is surely worthy of MVP votes, yet was still hit with racist remarks because I simply don't think McNabb measures up with Mcnair, or for that matter several quarterbacks.

McNabb has NEVER COMPLETED 60% PASSES IN A SEASON, NEVER THROWN FOR 3500 + YARDS IN A SEASON. NEVER FINISHED WITH A 80 + OR HIGHER RATING. ALTHOUGH HAS GONE TO 3 STRAIGHT PRO BOWL GAMES.

now how is it you have to be racist to hold the opinion McNabb is over rated.

Meanwhile people such as Warren Sapp & Kellon Winslow have publicly stated that they are routing for Indianapolis to win the Super Bowl for absolutely no other reason than Coach TonyDungy is African American. Is this not a racist statement:nono:

I can't even imagine if any player current or former were asked and replied "I'll be routing for the team with the White Coach" can you even imagine the outcry?

Sports Illustrated fully realizes that slippery slope and hence there choice of cover & wording on it. Hopefully nobody loses there job.

Good luck
shamrock

 

[Dragon]

It's funny about who and what you can have an opinion on and what it makes you if you have a negative opinion-it's ridiculous. I happen to dislike McNabb and think he is highly overrated. I've thought this since he came into the league. I do like Vick and McNair though and think both are excellent QBs. If someone has a problem with my opinion of McNabb they can kiss my :moon:


As far as Sapp and Winslow are concerned, both guys are assholes. Someone needs to straighten Winslow out because he's going to hurt someone or get himself hurt with that attitude and big f'in mouth of his.

 

[IntenseOperator]

Don't see any of McNabb's running numbers above:shrug:

he also isn't even close to peaking He has a lot of room for improvement and to make an even better showing of himself

in a few more years we may be considering him as one of the best in the league, or at least his W/L ratio will be even stronger

 

[IntenseOperator]

Warren Sapp

"Your 15 minutes are up":thefinger

 

[Nick Douglas]

In almost every other culture in the world it's considered natural to root for people of your race or nationality, but in America there's always someone shouting about racism when that happens. When you say that Sapp & Winslow's comments are racist, you are not fighting the good fight. You are playing a game of tit-for-tat that leads nowhere.

In fact, you are being ignorant by asserting that there is a large group of people out there who would say that anyone who thinks that McNabb is overrated is being racist. It is not the singular act of viewing McNabb as overrated that makes someone racist. The problem is that you are grouping yourself with the beantownjim's of this world who automatically view any black quarterback with skepticism. When McNabb's doubters are by and large either, A) stat geeks who don't understand the game or, B) people who view all black quarterbacks negatively, you risk branding yourself as part of the latter group when you take that stance.

 

[skulldog]

Shamrock, well put. I'm wondering if nick's view might be a tad clouded.:shrug:

 

[DCPlayer]

Opinions

Opinions

If you think McNabb's great because he has a great W/L ratio, good for you.

If you think McNabb stinks because his stats don't stack up with some of the other qb's in the league, good for you.

If you think McNabb's great because he's black, good for you.

If you think McNabb stinks because he's black, good for you.

If I were to tell Sapp and Winslow (The self proclaimed "Soldier" :thefinger) that I want any team but the Colts to win the Super Bowl because the Colts are the only team with a black coach, they can both kiss my a$$ if they don't like my opinion (note: that's not my actual opinion). Somehow, I doubt they'd care.

My point..... This is America. Don't force me to believe what you believe, and I won't force you to believe what I believe.
But try to form educated opinions.

Good point though Shamrock.

Just my two cents. :shrug:

 

[dawgball]

McNabb is a good QB, but he is not great by any means.

Great is Manning, McNair, Favre (of yesteryear), Vick (of tomorrowyear--hopefully), etc.

If because I think McNabb has received extra hype because he is a black QB I am a racist, then I guess I'm a racist without knowing it. My opinion is also that Manning has received extra hype because of his last name. What does that make me? A familyist? It has taken Manning several years to hone his game to where it is now (great), but he was granted the "Great" tag long before it was due. McNabb is in the same boat except he has not come into his own, yet.

McNabb still has enough years left in him to become a great QB, but to this point he is just good, IMO. And obviously good enough for him to lead his team to three straight division titles.

 

[dr. freeze]

Jack please get rid of these familyist comments....they offend me

thanks

 

[gardenweasel]

an odd sidenote

an odd sidenote

my brother was recently in the hospital.....he shared a room with a black guy who just happened to be a professor at coppin st college.....

the guy was obviously gay....hiv positive.....and an absolute whack job....they had to move my brother to another room because this guy had ripped his catheter out and bled all over the place.....yelled and screamed at the nurses for food that wasn`t hot enough.....for tests that he had to take that weren`t given on time....walking up and down the hall confronting staff and patients alike....calling several of the white nurses,"honky bitches".....the guy insisted on the staff calling him "DR.(his name)"...my brother didn`t request the move....the nurses asked him to move....this guy was getting a double room to himself for being a shit.....i`m just glad that he didn`t approach my brother....or i would have ended up hiv positive and his hospital stay would have been longer than he had anticipated....

they had to bring in a security staffer to stay with him 24-7.....

after my brother was moved we were in another room with another black guy....and i have to say,he was a bit of a pain in the ass also...playing his t.v ridiculously loud....having loud arguments on the telephone....generally being a frickin` nuisance....

not saying that all blacks are like this..i know it`s not true....actually my brother and i went to a high school in baltimore that was 90% black(edmondson high)..just saying that we got 2 lousy draws as far as roomates go... it could have been two obnoxious white guys....but,that would have been easier to deal with....there would have been no race issue attached to the situation...

i hate all this political correctness...there is no real honesty anymore...freedom of speech is just lip service...and i`ll be honest,the 2 roommates that my brother was paired with,were the lowest form of human being(regardless of educational achievement)....they truly deserved any slang name you could attribute to them....

they had no inkling of how to act in a public setting ....in a place where they should be expected to act like human beings.... recognizing that there were sick people around them and that a certain amount of consideration for others was warranted........



i took a look around the floor and it seemed like 80% of the rooms paired a black with a white.....i asked a nurse about this and she told me(on the down low) that it seems that this is an unwritten regular practice at the hospital....and she surmised that it might be to circumvent any allegations of favoritism.......one room getting more attention or better service from the staff...due to race...

i believe that this is symptomatic of what`s going on in this country.....

the race thing has become a cottage industry.....it affects every nuance of our everyday life...

idiots like limbaugh,with his veiled racist comments give this b.s. legitimization....(given some of limbaugh`s comments on his radio show,it`s not hard to see why his statements regarding mcnabb created such a situation)


limbaugh`s an ass...all it takes is one jerk with a public pulpit to make a stupid comment(intended or not)to reinforce the arguments of all the race hustlers and validate their points of view....and he basically got what he deserved.....he knew the conservative reputation he brought to the show....and knew that weighing in on any issue perceived as racial would bring a major sh-tstorm down upon himself....i,for one,don`t feel sorry for him...


be careful what you say....it may be misconstrued and cost you your reputation....or your livelihood......

just makes things more difficult for everyone else......

be careful what you say....it ain`t safe out there....

one aspect of this country psyche that needs a major adjustment....

 

[edludes]

Shammy-What you said was a thread titled"Sit back and watch McNabb Choke."How foolish you looked for posting that trash after he won the game.The guy is a leader who lead his team to victory,converted a 4th and 26,and won the game with his arm and set an all-time playoff rushing record for QBS with his legs.No he's not playing as well as he eventually will,but the fact remains you think this guy is a choker,what,because he lost the NFC championship twice?How many AFC championships did Marino lose?Doesn't your silly criteria make him an even bigger choker?How about Dan Fouts?Is he a no account choker?The guy is a young QB,John Madden sayes that they shouldn't be allowed to play until their 5th freakin' year because the position is so complicated to learn.McNabb is learning while winning games with his athleticism,and one has to wonder why you'd make such a comment about him choking and try to justify it after you were so resoundingly wrong.

 

[Nick Douglas]

I'd say the same thing to people who point out that Jason Sehorn, Jason Williams or Larry Bird became more popular because they are white. It is only natural to root for people of your same race or nationality, especially when they overcome great odds to achieve something.

 

[edludes]

Also,there was another thread saying the reason the Titans lost to NE was NcNair underachieves in big games (Reads Chokes.)Its just a coincidence that these are the only two black QBs in the playoffs.Why not Jake Plummer,surely he has enough talent and time in the pros to be labeled an underachiever.Marc Bulger played spottily at best late in the season,why not call for a psych exam for him to see if he's tough enough or if he wears womens underwear as I suspect?Trent Green,is the system he plays in making him great?(Maybe they could win more with a running qb,like NcNabb?)Jim freakin Kelly,what a choke artist he was!!Never saw any threads like that about any of those fellas at ol MJ's,but its just a coincidence I'm sure,just a statistical anomally that NcNabb is called a choker before a game that he actually wins and the league co-mvp is called an underacheiver in a game he clearly played well in(what does the term "Southie" mean Shamrock,I've seen it in the headlines of Boston papers when I've been in your town?Are you willing to state theres no racial overtone to that word?That place?The person who lives there?).

 

[Nick Douglas]

edludes makes some very good points here.

 

[djv]

gardenweasel im not sure if you know this. But it seems after reading what you said above. Your dislike for blacks did start in HS.
Folks funny thing about Mc Nabb. About 24 NFL teams wish they had him. Not sure if it makes him great. That word great is over used anyway. But he is dam good and seems to win more then his share with throwing and running. I dont think to may over rate him. Or that he should be called over rated. I mean Philly with out him would be sitting home this week watching.

 

[dawgball]

I don't know of too many people that pull for Sehorn, except horny women. I haven't heard Jason Williams name in a couple of years except that Hubie Brown has made him grow up and play better.

And I will let it slide that you are comparing Donovan McNabb to Larry Bird. I won't defend Bird on his personal life, but on the court he was a Great.

I stand by that I don't think McNabb is a great QB. He is a Great (with a capital G) athlete, but not a great QB...yet.

Who would everyone want as their QB? Manning or McNabb? I personally choose Manning, and I hope that does not make me a racist.

Whoever made the comment about there being no freedom of speech in this country hit the nail on the head.

 

[IntenseOperator]

don't want to take this too the extreme...

but it would be intersting to see what kind of success Manning would have on the Philly team

and what success McNabb would have on the Indy team

just don't want anyone to forget systems/coaches/60 players have a lot to do with a persons success

 

[gardenweasel]

djv

djv

i don`t usually respond like this,but your supposition about my "disliking blacks" was stupidity at it`s highest level....

i don`t dislike blacks....i dislikes as-holes and people that don`t know how to treat other people..people that wouldn`t understand common courtesy if it punched them in the face....people that apparently get away with rude and borish behavior time and again because everyonre around them is afraid to speak up.......particularly people with some modicum of educational background....those that cannot claim ignorance as an excuse.....

and people that assume they know me and what i think....

i also don`t like things like political correctness that make honest discourse and communication among people much more difficult than it should be....

i shared an apartment in my youth for a year after high school with my best friend at that time(yes,a black guy....actually a friend from high school that i played football with)....actually had very few problems racially in high school....was treated well and got along fine.....political correctness wasn`t a big issue at that time...

i don`t hate blacks...i hate ignorant p-icks that make life more difficult for the rest of us..and get away with it.....and the stupid,divisive thing known as political correctness...

quite an assumption....i suggest you re-read my panel...

oh,and btw...on the mcnabb thing....i`m on the cusp of winning a nice preseason prop picking the eagles to get to the super bowl.....

i think mcnabb is a fantastic playmaker....he`s been a full season starter for 4 years....3 playoffs....2 nfc championship games.....maybe his first super bowl....his record is reminiscent of elway.....the way he started...not saying he`s elway good.....yet

qb ratings aside.....he`s a winner...and still relatively young....

a bigtime player....he`s not a stat guy...just a winner...

 

[IntenseOperator]

Is the jinx locked and loaded

Philly loses on an interception return:shrug:

 

[shamrock]

edl- your comparing Marino & Fouts to McNabb is paramount to ridiculousness. McNabb as yet hasn't completed 60% for a season, Marino did it 17 straight years. Marino also threw for 4000 yards 6 times, Fouts did it 3 times and being I'm a big racist I'll neglect to tell you only Warren moon did it twice.

And celebrating McNabbs miraculous victory last Sunday is equally as ridiculous. McNabb was exactly what he is a risky high wire act, spectacularly swinging back and forth risking the game and the season as he went.
First down/incomplete
second down/16 yard sack
third down/incomplete
4th & 26/successful conversion

if you think any quarterback in any NFL game that completes a 4 & 26 successfully and a huge degree of luck isn't present your insane.

After this McNabb nearly took 2 other needless sacks that would have in fact ended the game except narrowly escaping he carelessly lofted the ball into the end zone, one of which think McKenzie got 2 hands on and nearly intercepted. McNabb although successfully was exactly what he always is a risky high wire proposition.

I don't know where your com off comparing me with South Boston or whatever, but just to make it really really simple we'll presently just use black quarterbacks, therefore race (like it always does, can't cloud the picture.) Its convenient how you don't even mention that I praised Steven McNa ir in the other thread. After all it would be difficult to paint me a racist if I really respected & praised the Tennessee quarterback:nono:

let's get this straight Donovan McNabb can't carry McNaairs baggage. #9 completes 63% of his passes, throws for exceptional yards and has 24 touchdowns against 7 interceptions.

McNabb can't even compare with Culllpepper, completing 65% of his balls for 3500 yards the Vikings quarterback also has 25 touchdowns against 11 interceptions and a 94 rating, McNair rating is over 100

Brooks from New Orleans completed more balls at a higher percentage than your boy McNabb, also had 24 touchdowns against 8 interceptions. Seems McNabb doesn't even measure up there.
Actually Quincy Carter completed more passes for a higher percentage than McNabb, and Carter had more yards.

And Byron Leftwich only completed 40 less passes for 400 fewer yards, but did it on 60 fewer passes, in his rookie ****ing season.

Should we run Jeff Blake No.? How about Anthony Wright?

Funny you mentioned Trent Green, he only threw for over 4000 yards, 93 rating 24 touchdowns & 12 interceptions. Even Plummer who probably most resembles McNabb s high wire risky style of offense has a 92 rating, 15 touchdowns 7 interceptions in only 10 games because of injury. McNabb 16 touchdowns & 79 rating are ridiculous OVER RATED. Chad Pennington had 13 touchdowns, Ramsey had 14. Tommy Maddux had 18, Tommy Maddux, carefully look over NFL statistics Maddux is the closest starter to resemble Donovan McNall numbers. McNabb is Maddux!